Merged Teacher leads kindergarten class to vote boy with Asperger's out of class

[Complexity]

A kindergarten teacher had her class criticize a classmate, a 5-year old boy believed to have Asperger's, a variety of autism, and then made the class vote on whether he should leave the class.

The kids voted against the autistic boy, 14 - 2.

His one friend in the class at first voted in favor of the boy, but the teacher pressured him into voting against his friend.

The teacher doesn't think she did anything wrong. A few days after the incident, she was apparently given non-teaching administrative things to do.

This is a link to an interview with the boy's mother. He is on her lap playing with his mike the whole interview.

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/103693.html

His 'teacher' should be fired, never hired again, and subjected to horrors.

 

[Dancing David]

Disgusting.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Disgusting.

And sad. Very sad.

 

[Dancing David]

Here is some more information, perhaps the child should have ben held in the office a little longer, and certainly should have had a behavioral plan, but kindergarten, gosh, that was the worst the he did. How about kicking my wife while she restrains you for 45 minutes, threatening to kill your self , kill others and hitting. I wok in grade schools, this was WRONG. Remove the kids, reward positive behavior.

Gosh , this kid already doesn't get social cues.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/may...-side-incident-which/?partner=yahoo_headlines

 

[Damien Evans]

A kindergarten teacher had her class criticize a classmate, a 5-year old boy believed to have Asperger's, a variety of autism, and then made the class vote on whether he should leave the class.

The kids voted against the autistic boy, 14 - 2.

His one friend in the class at first voted in favor of the boy, but the teacher pressured him into voting against his friend.

The teacher doesn't think she did anything wrong. A few days after the incident, she was apparently given non-teaching administrative things to do.

This is a link to an interview with the boy's mother. He is on her lap playing with his mike the whole interview.

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/103693.html

His 'teacher' should be fired, never hired again, and subjected to horrors.

Hanging's too good for her.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Don't any of you have your skeptic sensors on here? We are seeing a defensive parent give one side of the story.

I would agree this would be an incompetent teacher should the story be an accurate accounting. But I'm skeptical. The claim is a teacher sent a 5 year old with behavior problems/and or disabilities outside of a class with no supervision as follow up. The Mom says the teacher told the child not to go to the office, "they wouldn't want you".

Frankly, I find the story rather incredible and wonder if it really occurred this way.

I agree as told, the story is appalling. I just don't believe the story is quite as bad as this Mom claims. Not to mention the Mom seems to have gotten the entire account from the child. That alone tells you it is unlikely to have been a correct account. Kids at the age of 5 are naturally predisposed to lie if they think they have been bad.

Having experienced many a parent of a disabled child insist their child be managed in public school classrooms ill equipped to manage some of these children simply because the law says the parent can insist on an education, I know that some parents have a very distorted view of the world and of their children. It may be this was simply giving the child a time out for disruptive behavior. I don't think involving the other children is wise, but again, I'd like to hear from the teacher before passing judgment.

This child seems appropriate for school as opposed to some kids that are just sent there by parents for parent time off so that is not what I am saying by my example. But that doesn't mean the teacher's method of time outs or whatever it really was wasn't reasonable. We just don't know from this much information.

How did this story even make it to some Net News program anyway? Who called the reporters?

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

orningside Elementary kindergarten teacher Wendy Portillo told Port St. Lucie police she wanted 5-year-old Alex Barton to hear how his behavior was affecting his classmates. After students shared their view, she had them vote, but said the vote was only to keep him out of class for the day, not for good. "Portillo said she did this as she felt that if (Alex) heard from his classmates how his behavior affected them that it would make a bigger difference to him, rather than just hearing it from adults," according to a report released Thursday morning from the Port St. Lucie Police Department.

From the link.

 

[devnull]

I see both sides. She stepped over the line, and should be fired.

On the other hand, I wouldnt want a disruptive kid ruining my kid's education.

So after the kids had voted, did one of them dress up in a suit and do the whole "you're fired!" thing?

 

[kerikiwi]

I don't think it at all likely that the mother's version is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
As a teacher I have been on the receiving end of a good selection of distorted versions of real events.
And to call for the teacher to be fired based on the report is, to be blunt, stupid.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

From the link.

From the link:

Barton filed a complaint with Morningside's school resource officer.

St. Lucie School spokeswoman Janice Karst said the district is investigating the incident, but could not make any further comment. The state attorney's office concluded the matter did not meet the criteria for emotional child abuse, so no criminal charges will be filed.

Teacher Wendy Portillo was advised by the school board not to speak to the press so she declined our interview offer.

So if the teacher was not allowed to give her story to the press you still have a one sided view here. Until I see more evidence I have no way of knowing what really happened. I find it very hard to believe a teacher is going to send a 5 year old anywhere without supervision. That gap in the story suggests we are not getting the facts.

The mom says the child was told not to go to the office. What teacher would evict a child from a class and not send them somewhere with other supervision? I doubt they would do that with a 5th grader, let alone a 5 year old.

I don't see both sides ... yet.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I don't think it at all likely that the mother's version is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
As a teacher I have been on the receiving end of a good selection of distorted versions of real events.
And to call for the teacher to be fired based on the report is, to be blunt, stupid.

What, you don't think a teacher should be fired based on a story a 5 year old told his mom?

I do believe those of us who have ever investigated some story our child told us about something like this have found out the child's version was not very objective. Unfortunately some parents don't understand that and think kids are good at describing events.

I would say there is one thing we can conclude from this, the school probably didn't handle the mom's concerns very well.

 

[Soapy Sam]

I share skeptigirl's scepticism.
I do think the teacher made a silly mistake in these politically correct times.
Telling a disruptive kid the truth- that he is disruptive- is a serious no-no.
Letting a bunch of kids too young to vote do so is practically revolutionary.

They'll be hiding behind trees with muskets next.

 

[JoeEllison]

Teachers used to beat kids who acted up in class, and we would be properly outraged if the teacher had paddled a misbehaving 5 year old. Instead of that, we have a teacher who appears to have come up with a way of explaining to an misbehaving child that his behavior was unacceptable... and plenty of people are outraged about that.

Teachers can't win, can they?

 

[Boo]

This is a failure of the adults in this child's life, parent and educators. Most people know by now that kids with Autism spectrum do not get social clues. Telling them that their actions make others sad, happy, angry, etc. are not going to mean anything, especially to a 5 year old. I question what school system and parent allows a child with this diagnosis into a regular classroom without supports.

The parents are responsible for advising the school of his diagnosis and working with them to ensure the teacher has the information and tools she needs to help this child succeed along with his peers. It sounds as if this child's behavior has been an ongoing issue and should have been addressed at the first sign of a problem. That's why individualized education plans exist; so that everyone knows what the concerns are and what steps to take before an incident escalates.

I can imagine the level of frustration this teacher must have felt to do something like this and I'm sure she felt she had no other recourse. The mother is rightly upset at her child being ostracized by his peers in a manner guided by the adult who should have been protecting him and helping the others to understand why his behavior is different.


This child is being set up for years of bullying and isolation because the adults around him can't or won't take the time to communicate.

This failure is appalling.



Boo

 

[Dave Rogers]

My son with autism is now 18 years old and in further education, so I'm speaking from a position of considerable experience at winnning the battles parents of a child with autism face in getting a decent education. I wanted to make that clear first, because I doubt anyone here knows it.

Having read the report which gives the teacher's side of it, from the link in post 4, I have to say I agree at least in part with Boo, but I'd tend towards excusing the parents based on my own experience. I've known the local education authority to simply refuse to acknowledge any responsibility for supporting teachers or schools in acquiring the resources and expertise needed for teaching children with an autistic spectrum disorder, and some schools go along with this attitude quite willingly. As parents, there's only so much pressure you can bring to bear, only so many meetings you can attend, only so much stonewalling you can tolerate, given that you have to go home afterwards and cope with the pressures that child is exerting on your everyday family life; plus, you're not a trained educational psychologist (although after a few years most of us can tell the ed psychs more than they can tell us), so how are you supposed to make up the failings of the educational system on your own? The sad truth is that we sometimes have to let our children go into a classroom without the appropriate support because it's the only way they'll ever get into a classroom at all; and sometimes we have to let the school fail, and occasionally fail very badly, because the only way to let the education authority do their job is to shame them into it.

What the teacher was trying to do here was, of course, idiotic. But it's a common enough idiocy; put enough social pressure to conform on someone with an ASD, and they will eventually start to conform. We've had the argument put to us that children with an ASD should be put straight into a mainstream class so that they can pick up normal behaviours from the children around them. It takes a while to explain to someone with no experience or training that if this was effective, then it would show that the child didn't have an ASD in the first place. This teacher shouldn't be fired; she should be trained in how to do the job she's been asked to do, and supported in doing it.

Somewhere behind all this, though, there is someone in administration who believes that it's okay to dump children with ASDs in a regular classroom setting without adequate support for them or the teacher, and that person is the one who should be sacked, because he or she is simply incompetent to let this have ever happened in the first place.

Dave

 

[fuelair]

A kindergarten teacher had her class criticize a classmate, a 5-year old boy believed to have Asperger's, a variety of autism, and then made the class vote on whether he should leave the class.

The kids voted against the autistic boy, 14 - 2.

His one friend in the class at first voted in favor of the boy, but the teacher pressured him into voting against his friend.

The teacher doesn't think she did anything wrong. A few days after the incident, she was apparently given non-teaching administrative things to do.

This is a link to an interview with the boy's mother. He is on her lap playing with his mike the whole interview.

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/103693.html

His 'teacher' should be fired, never hired again, and subjected to horrors.

If this is true (and I suspect it is) as a teacher and a human being, I agree with you!

 

[Dancing David]

Hey, my link was to the officer's report of the teacher's side of the story

Portillo and children in the class said Alex was pushing a table up with his feet while he was under the table. She got the school resource officer to remove Alex from the classroom. It was the second discipline referral for Alex that day, the report said.

When Alex returned to the class, Portillo said she and the class were not ready for him to return.

In my schools he would have spent a long time in the office for a second refferal and probably would have been suspended for the rest of the day.

Now the question is what was the first refferal and why the child wasn't sent home. At both my schools there are children who get suspended frequently.

(We have a kindergartener who is sent home 2-3/week) but then both my schools are high needs schools.

 

[Soapy Sam]

If the boy has an actual neurological problem, then is a class like this the best place for him? Should he not have special teaching of some sort?
And is this teacher expected to be able to decide whether he has such problems, or whether he is just badly behaved and disruptive?

I don't know how common autism actually is, but I do seem to see a tendency- especially in the US- to assume that badly behaved kids have a problem, whereas it may be more valid to assume that they ARE a problem.

A teacher has a class to handle. If one child disrupts the class, whether because he is mentally ill or just badly behaved, what recourse DOES that teacher have to enable him/her to do his duty for the rest of the class?

This "vote" seems an odd way to try to get across to the kid that he was upsetting his classmates, but in my day, the kid would have been physically punished, or expelled. (At least if he was a little older- kindergartens were rare when I was a kid).
Maybe the teacher's approach makes more sense than it might seem.
We seem quick to blame the teacher, not the child, or the child's parents. Perhaps the teacher needs more support here? She's damned if she disciplines the kid, damned if she lets the other kids do it and damned if she lets him spoil the class. She can't win.

 

[Dancing David]

I may be wrong in thinking it is kindergarten, could be first grade as well.

My thoughts:

-what did the schools assessment show?
-why is the mom getting an outside assessment, was she referred


There is in Illinois a whole system of SPED, and the law states that the child has to be supported in mainstream classrooms unless they are a threat to the other children. The level for being in self contained is very high (one of my schools has an ED self contained room, the other has an autism spectrum self-contained room) but then there is also what they call the resource level as well where and aide or a SPED teacher work with the kid in the class room.

Issues with SPED

-parents don't want their kids labeled
-parents do want their kids labeled
-the state sets up laws and then doesn't fund them
-schools districts have to follow the law but don't get money for it

Then there is the extension of
-parents don't want their kids labeled
There are kids who have mental illnesses (which autism is not) and developmental disorders but the parents don't want them labeled SPED. So the kid struggles and gets suspended a lot, the teachers and aides struggle and get frustrated a lot (there will only be an aide if another kid is identified). Even in middle schools there are kids who spend a lot of time in in school suspension or at home because they are not receiving medications. Then there are the precriminal children who do not qualify for SPED in the first place.

-parents do want their kids labeled
There are parents who demand services for their children when they don't qualify. (IE the parent who wants SPED because their kids gets some Bs&Cs) Then there are parents who want the student to have full services when they don't qualify for that.


Then there is the sticky issue of 'behavioral' disorders as opposed to ED (emotionally disabled), these kids come from violent and chaotic homes. For kindergarten the issue is that they may have never been in preschools or they have older siblings that encourage violent and disruptive behavior. There are kids who are aged into first grade but don't have any school experience.

Often these kids are pushed by the parent to receive SPED.


Then there is the whole issue of under funding, understaffing and the overwhelmed system. Teachers who just don't want to deal with it. Etc...

Then there is the terrible issue of the slow children, not able to keep up with the rest of the school and getting farther behind every year, no services for them.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

How come he didn't play his hidden immunity idol?