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Tea Party Smeared by ABC

ravdin said:
You left out an important detail: the program started to gain attention when Brian Terry, a Border Patrol agent, was killed in Arizona in 2010 with weapons that were traced back to Fast and Furious.
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I recognize that as an important factor
 
mhaze said:
Think about it. It's simply factual that the current operation, called "Fast and Furious", had no followup or traceable elements, and resulted in hundreds dead by way of the assault weapons sold being actually used, and that this occurred under Eric Holder/Obama. Hundreds dead, mostly Mexicans, simply requires an investigation and considerable attention.
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Not to my knowledge. The guns that were, in fact, sold were not part of any federal operations and thus not under Holder/Obama.

Did Holder become aware of F&F before or after Terry was killed. (A real question. I suppose I could find out but it's easier just to ask those already familiar with the issue.)
 
How comes conservatives say the fast and furious gun sales lead to deaths but guns sales in this country lead don't? Sounds to me like mhaze just came out in support of reduced guns sales in the U.S.
 
DavidJames said:
How comes conservatives say the fast and furious gun sales lead to deaths but guns sales in this country lead don't? Sounds to me like mhaze just came out in support of reduced guns sales in the U.S.
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Think before you type, please. Would you be in favor of a NCIS federal background check for you and I, when purchasing guns, but not for hardened criminals?

That's the situation that was existent with F&F with respect to assault weapons to Mexican cartels.

SezMe said:
Not to my knowledge. The guns that were, in fact, sold were not part of any federal operations and thus not under Holder/Obama....
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F&F certainly was a federal gun running program operating under Holder.

SezMe said:
Did Holder become aware of F&F before or after Terry was killed. (A real question. I suppose I could find out but it's easier just to ask those already familiar with the issue.)
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Should be easy to say "after". Before Terry was killed, not many knew about the program.
 
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Did we ever get a good answer as to why Fox News is not part of the "mainstream media?"
 
mhaze said:
Think before you type, please. Would you be in favor of a NCIS federal background check for you and I, when purchasing guns, but not for hardened criminals?

That's the situation that was existent with F&F with respect to assault weapons to Mexican cartels.
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In the USA people on the DHS terrorist can buy guns. What's different about Mexico's terrorists?

mhaze said:
F&F certainly was a federal gun running program operating under Holder.
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Try to read more closely, mhaze. F&F was most definitely a gun running operation but the guns that did make it to Mexico were NOT sold under the F&F program.
 
Cleon said:
Did we ever get a good answer as to why Fox News is not part of the "mainstream media?"
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No and we probably never will.

Conservapedia is at least honest about it:

http://www.conservapedia.com/Mainstream_media

The mainstream media (MSM), also humorously known by many of its very large number of vocal critics as the lamestream media, are the increasingly liberal media organs that censor the dissemination of news.
The common denominator of the "mainstream media" is their censoring or downplaying stories that would lead viewers to conservative conclusions, and their use of photo bias, placement bias and other forms of deception to mislead viewers into drawing incorrect liberal conclusions. The term mainstream media usually refers to how the majority of commercial-based or taxpayer-funded news reporting and commentary consist of liberal bias, while falsely pretending to be objective providers of information.
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So when they say mainstream, they don't really mean mainstream. They mean anyone who presents information that conservatives don't like.
 
SezMe said:
In the USA people on the DHS terrorist can buy guns. What's different about Mexico's terrorists?....
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We are not talking about DHS terrorists lists here, but background checks. As the DHS terrorist list is a compedium of first and last names, it produces a high percentage of false positives. Someone whose first and last name was on the DHS list certainly could buy a firearm under the NCIS background check, and it would clearly show that that individual was not a terrorist.

SezMe said:
...Try to read more closely, mhaze. F&F was most definitely a gun running operation but the guns that did make it to Mexico were NOT sold under the F&F program.
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I think you need to state clearly what point you are trying to make here, as everyone knows pretty much the reverse to be true.
 
I'm sorry but even if you could prove that a lot of media outlets didn't cover the Fast & Furious scandal it wouldn't mean anything.

Because what's more likely:

That big media conglomerates decided a complex issue of importance to a limited segment of the population might not garner bigger ratings than in-depth analysis of Justin Beiber and the Royal Wedding...

​
...or...

...that they decided to bury the story lest it look bad for their main man Obama who they have strangely decided to air bad stories about in the past anyways?​
 
Travis said:
I'm sorry but even if you could prove that a lot of media outlets didn't cover the Fast & Furious scandal it wouldn't mean anything.

Because what's more likely:

That big media conglomerates decided a complex issue of importance to a limited segment of the population might not garner bigger ratings than in-depth analysis of Justin Beiber and the Royal Wedding...

​
...or...

...that they decided to bury the story lest it look bad for their main man Obama who they have strangely decided to air bad stories about in the past anyways?​
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Yes, of course you must be right. <<Mulling over ridiculous, repetitive coverage of Cindy Sheehan>>

Surrrrreeeee.....buddy.....
 
mhaze said:
Because it's the name of the program we are discussing.

Duhh....
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Er, you convienently gloss over the evidence I provided, proving that RP's claim with which you agree -- that NBC didn't cover the story until two weeks ago -- is false.

(By the way, if you would have allowed more than three minutes to pass before responding to the 4 links I provided, you could have pretended to have actually read them.)

Duhh?
 
mhaze said:
I think you need to state clearly what point you are trying to make here, as everyone knows pretty much the reverse to be true.
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Yes if everyone includes only those named mhaze:

Apparently, there has been only one agent, John Dodson, who purposely, and against orders, let guns go across. Turns out Dodson is the sole witness who saw gun walking, and he reported it to Representative Darrell Issa’s House Republican Oversight Committee.
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Linky

Now, if the guns that got across the border happened because an agent was acting "against orders" then that cannot be considered a F&F operation, can it?
 
mhaze said:
Yes, of course you must be right. <<Mulling over ridiculous, repetitive coverage of Cindy Sheehan>>

Surrrrreeeee.....buddy.....
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I saw Cindy Sheehan and her idiotic antics being covered on Fox News way more than other network. Maybe because they knew she was actually a very unsympathetic character?
 
SezMe said:
Yes if everyone includes only those named mhaze:


Linky

Straw purchasing of guns is specifically coded as illegal felony in the federal law, and F&F saw about 1.25M such purchases with the agents being fully aware of them, and doing nothing. There is no legal way to move a firearm into mexico without the permits and approvals for sporting and hunting use. Which US citizens do from time to time.
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mhaze said:
Straw purchasing of guns is specifically coded as illegal felony in the federal law, and F&F saw about 1.25M such purchases with the agents being fully aware of them, and doing nothing.
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It is legal and done in Arizona. That was one of the things that frustrated the ATF guys. They could KNOW someone was purchasing guns for resale and could do nothing about it. Or the AG in Arizona would just ignore their request for legal authorization to pick the runners up.


mhaze said:
There is no legal way to move a firearm into mexico without the permits and approvals for sporting and hunting use.
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Well, duh. Nobody ever violates gun laws, eh? The ATF was pursuing a legal operation just for the hell of it.
 
SezMe said:
It is legal and done in Arizona. That was one of the things that frustrated the ATF guys. They could KNOW someone was purchasing guns for resale and could do nothing about it. Or the AG in Arizona would just ignore their request for legal authorization to pick the runners up.



Well, duh. Nobody ever violates gun laws, eh? The ATF was pursuing a legal operation just for the hell of it.
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Federal law is superior to state law with respect to the provision of straw purchasers. It's not my problem (or yours) whatever their interior bureaucratic problems were. What you've said is simply FALSE. And make no mistake about it, these agencies can come down like a ton of bricks on individuals and organizations when they want to.

You've been reading a little bit too much of the political rationalizations generated to support Holder or whatever culprits there may be. These laws have been around a while, and generally the community involved understands them and their enforcement quite well.

Here is the manual, refer to page 165. Briefly,

the straw purchaser violates Federal law by making false statements on Form 4473 to the licensee with respect to the identity of the actual purchaser of the firearm, as well as the actual purchaser's residence address and date of birth. The actual purchaser who utilized the straw purchaser to acquire a firearm has unlawfully aided and abetted or caused the making of the false statements. The licensee selling the firearm under these circumstances also violates Federal law if the licensee is aware of the false statements on the form. It is immaterial that the actual purchaser and the straw purchaser are residents of the State in which the licensee's business premises is located, are not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms, and could have lawfully purchased firearms from the licensee. ​

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
 
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SezMe said:
Can ≠ did.

What happens if they don't want to?
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Now we are getting to a point of agreement, and the question that warranted a congressional investigation to see how far up the chain that idiocy went.
 
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