I recommended it for people who didn't have time to learn tai chi.So there is no point in brining up up that you get more from doing tai chi. I certainly get more from this than the crap I have to pick up walking a dog.
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The problem is, if you get more from a walk in the park (I agree with Wudang there about the usefulness of 8 pieces, and would in fact extend that to all the chi kung I've been taught), then why not simply go to the park instead? Why waste time learning the second-best when you already know how to do the first?
Wudang
BOFH
They'd be better with Wang Xuanjie's stuff.
I did not say I get more from a walkin the park.
The 8 pieces are a meditation/breathing excercise. When I did this regularly, it helped with focus, decreasing stress & general posture. It must be done daily for 30 minutes. That is what it is supposed to do. Its easy to learn and will fill in the gaps until you know tai chi.
The Yang short form is much better....obviously. It is harder to learn. You could probably learn this from a good dvd. Nothing beats a teacher. Leran the form from the dvd and than find a group of people who may do in the morning at a local park. I am sure you can find someone who will fill stuff thats missing. Maybe someone will do push hands with you, if somethere knows it.
The Yang short form is much better....obviously. It is harder to learn. You could probably learn this from a good dvd. Nothing beats a teacher. Leran the form from the dvd and than find a group of people who may do in the morning at a local park. I am sure you can find someone who will fill stuff thats missing. Maybe someone will do push hands with you, if somethere knows it.
I think this is where I -- and possibly Wudang, although I am somewhat loathe to speak for him -- differ with you.
I do not consider "the Yang short form" to be "much better," nor do I consider the eight pieces to be a valuable "meditation/breathing" exercise. If all you want is "focus, decreasing stress & general posture," then a walk in the part or a decent set of football stretches will do you that for you. Or, for that matter, improvising slow range-of-motion exercises as TBK suggests.
The people in the park who are waving their hands like fat Westerners usually aren't doing themselves much good either.
Tai chi is an extremely effective and useful martial art when taught properly. As I believe I mentioned upthread, I know of something like four instructors, world-wide, that know how to use tai chi as a martial art (and that teach it) and that can get the sort of health benefits that one would expect of a genuine martial art system out of it. (I was privileged to study, briefly, under one of them.)
The people waving their hands in the park are wasting time and money.
If you have read upthread than you know I have mentioned Tai Chi as an effective martial art in many posts.
I know. But you are also suggesting that the people who practice what they think is "tai chi" in the part are doing themselves any good.
And we disagree there.
TBK recognizes -- correctly, in my opinion -- that the park tai chi is worse than useless. What he doesn't recognize is that real tai chi exists, it's just extremely rare. You seem not to recognize the difference between the park tai chi and the real stuff.....
NO! I recognize the real stuff. I realize that the forms a small part of it. That small part of it is useful to those who want some health benfits. People are not going to find people teaching the whole art. Its rare.
Wudang
BOFH
No. Sorry. If you think you can learn anything useful about the form from a DVD you are completely misinformed about tai chi. It's hard enough to teach tai chi when you're actually standing over someone. It's not about the form, it's how you do the form. Most people doing the hand form are like people continually typing the same program into their computers thing it's going to make them programmers when they don't understand a single line of the code.
And I'm with the good drkitten, most people doing "the ancient art of directing traffic in the park" would be better off spending the time walking.
Once again, I didn't say that. The original poster said he did not have enough money to afford an instructor so I suggest qigong in place of learning the form. I suggested the a dvd of the form until he could get an instructor.
I didn't say the dvd replaced the instructor. I didn't say qigong replaced an instructor. I didn't say qigong was just as good as tai chi. I didn't say to make things up. I didn't say that tai chi has successfully been used in MMA. In fact I didn't bring up MMA.
I DID say there was more to tai chi than just the forms and that good intructors are rare. Being that there are so few good instructors, I guess it would be good to suspect any instructor, particularly those based in a new age center right next to a yoga class that probably has been altered as well.
I suggested qigong and dvd in place of instructor to begin the learning of the form until he could afford the instructor. If this wasn't clear I apologize.
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But this just comes back to the question of enjoyment. Some people don't like walking in the park, but do enjoy directing traffic in it. While it may not be as good exercise as walking, it is much better than sitting at home in front of the TV, and they are doing something they like instead of something they find incredibly boring.
Right. And this is where I'm expressing my concern.
Suppose I said to you that I had just been diagnosed with some serious, maybe lethal disease, but I couldn't afford the necessary medicine.
Would you suggest that I buy homeopathic "magic water" until I can afford the real stuff?
Would you suggest I make "good-will" offerings to the local faith healer until I can afford to buy medicine?
I hope not. Because the quackery is useless. And spending money on the quackery makes it worse than useless, because I'm not saving that money towards the real medicine?
I believe that qi gong and the ancient art of traffic direction are useless. I believe that DVDs on qi gong and the ancient art of traffic direction are expensive and useless, which makes them worse then useless, by the same argument above.
Running, aerobics and weight lifting won't cure cancer either and yet the medical community still recommend these activities to stay in shape. Yes you can get dvds on all these activities. I posted articles earlier in the thread from Web MD recommending tai chi as exercise. But those medical doctors who based their recommendations on studies are just recommending quackery.
Would you put it that strongly? As cuddles has said, if people enjoy doing this type of thing, wouldn't it at least be better than sitting in front of the TV? (I enjoy juggling, and find that it helps with balance and coordination; I know there's more effective things I could do, but I find juggling more fun...) If the ancient art of traffic direction is no better than waving your arms around in a completely made up way (I don't have the information to say either way) then couldn't one just make up the traffic directions - at least then the exercise would be inefficient and free...
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Didn't I? Just now?
Actually, I toned down how I would like to put it, in deference to the JREF's family-friendly forum pollicy.
And if it were free, it would indeed be inefficient and free.
But DVDs on traffic direction are inefficient and expensive in terms of both time and money, --- which makes them worse than something ineffecient and free.
But not to cure cancer.
If you want to "stay in shape," then there's no reason to spend time and money on DVDs telling you things you already know.
A doctor who sells you bottled tap water for a thousand percent markup is just recommending quackery, yes. Dehydration is legitimate medical problem -- but there's nothing special about any particular form of water to justify additional expense.
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No one recommeded it to cure cancer. In my very first post I said it didn't prevent cancer. Or any other disease.
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Fair enough. However, unless there's something particularly damaging about traffic direction, I'd argue that even an inefficient form of exercise is better than useless. If people are persuaded to do traffic direction instead of something more effective, I can see how that would be a problem; if they do it as an alternative to not doing exercise, I don't see the harm in it.
