Taco Bell sued

PhantomWolf said:
Wow, you call me a liar right after quoting a guidline that states if you cook a product you have to change the name to indicate what you have done to it.
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Until you answer the question directly I'm presuming you're just fabricating your answer and feigning confusion. I know you read the question:

What is the difference between "Seasoned Ground Beef" and Ground Beef with seasonings? Be specific. Thanks.

And then answered with the definition as is regards to "cooked" meat. You know this was about raw and you deliberately answered incorrectly. Maybe it's not a lie, maybe you're just being dishonest, it's hard to tell at this point.

So again, what's the difference you keep going on about?

ETA: my apologies if you aren't being deliberately dishonest. I'm sorry.
 
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KoihimeNakamura said:
Hmm. Last I looked, cooking breaks chemical bonds,which creates chemical changes.
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It does, but a tomatoe with chemical bonds broken is still a tomatoe. Ground beef with chemical bonds broken is ground beef.

There's all kinds of neato stuff going on when you cook, but a basic ingredient like a pork chop is still a pork chop. The claim that cooking something changes it from one thin to another is completely absurd.

The qualifier "cooked" simply means exactly that: cooked. So "seasoned ground beef", after it's cooked is "cooked seasoned ground beef". It doesn't become "taco meat filling". In order to do that you'd have to add extenders and fillers, phosphates and maybe some water.
 
slingblade said:
Yes, and while cooking it, you can add more water to it, and you won't be violating the USDA regs for raw ground beef.

We've all been saying that, all along, all except for you.
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That I'm not sure of. There are more regulations about how much water is left over after cooking. (like if you make a soup)

This isn't really relevant, and I don't know why you are taking this there? The fillers and extenders and seasonings Taco Bell (Tyson) adds are added during the grinding process.
"After the initial coarse grind, the beef goes into a blender where the raw materials are mixed and blended, and any needed adjustment to the composition is made. A sample is taken to determine a more accurate lean-to-fat ratio. Since the fat content of each batch will likely vary, adjustments to the lean-to-fat ratio are made at this time to meet customer specification requirements. These adjustments are made by calculating the amount of fatter (usually) coarsely ground beef component needed to adjust the entire batch to the desired fat content. Also, depending upon the product to be manufactured, approved food additives, if any, would be incorporated at this point (i.e., salt, seasoning, binders, extenders, vegetable protein product (VPP), water, etc.). The batch is then thoroughly mixed/blended to ensure a uniform and consistent distribution of all components."
 
3bodyproblem said:
That I'm not sure of. There are more regulations about how much water is left over after cooking. (like if you make a soup)
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Show them.

I've never seen a government regulation for restaurants regarding "how much water is left over after cooking, like if you make a soup." And I've made gallons of soup in a dozen different restaurants over the years. So show me these regs for restaurants.

This isn't really relevant, and I don't know why you are taking this there?
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Of course you don't. It's only been, what? 40 or 50 pages since you told us cooks in restaurants can't add water when they cook ground beef or else they'll be in USDA violation? Naturally you've forgotten.


The fillers and extenders and seasonings Taco Bell (Tyson) adds are added during the grinding process.
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Back up. You're claiming Taco Bell grinds its own ground beef? That Taco Bell owns meat packing plants? Evidence?

"After the initial coarse grind, the beef goes into a blender where the raw materials are mixed and blended, and any needed adjustment to the composition is made. A sample is taken to determine a more accurate lean-to-fat ratio. Since the fat content of each batch will likely vary, adjustments to the lean-to-fat ratio are made at this time to meet customer specification requirements. These adjustments are made by calculating the amount of fatter (usually) coarsely ground beef component needed to adjust the entire batch to the desired fat content. Also, depending upon the product to be manufactured, approved food additives, if any, would be incorporated at this point (i.e., salt, seasoning, binders, extenders, vegetable protein product (VPP), water, etc.). The batch is then thoroughly mixed/blended to ensure a uniform and consistent distribution of all components."
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This is a quote taken from what, and meant for whom, specifically?
 
3bodyproblem said:
Until you answer the question directly I'm presuming you're just fabricating your answer and feigning confusion. I know you read the question:

What is the difference between "Seasoned Ground Beef" and Ground Beef with seasonings? Be specific. Thanks.

And then answered with the definition as is regards to "cooked" meat. You know this was about raw and you deliberately answered incorrectly. Maybe it's not a lie, maybe you're just being dishonest, it's hard to tell at this point.

So again, what's the difference you keep going on about?

ETA: my apologies if you aren't being deliberately dishonest. I'm sorry.
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Perhaps you need to try re-reading the things you have been quoting and understanding them.

1) "Ground Beef" with seasonings is a raw product.

Chopped beef, ground beef. "Chopped Beef" or "Ground Beef'" shall consist of chopped fresh and/or frozen beef with or without seasoning and without the addition of beef fat as such, shall not contain more than 30 percent fat, and shall not contain added water, phosphates, binders, or extenders.
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It doesn't say:

"Chopped Beef" or "Ground Beef'" shall consist of chopped fresh and/or frozen beef without seasoning, while "Seasoned Ground Beef" shall consist of chopped fresh and/or frozen beef with seasoning.

It states that the product is "Chopped Beef" or "Ground Beef'" regardless of whether or not it has seasonings in it. Putting seasoning in raw ground beef doesn't change the label of the product, the labeling regulation is for "Ground Beef" which may or may not have seasonings. Just like Chicken mentioned eariler that was labeled as "Chicken" and then had a mention that it had 15% seasonings. It wasn't labelled "Seasoned Chicken." If you put seasonings into "Ground Beef" it stays as "Ground Beef" which you then note has seasonings and list them. Hence "Ground Beef" with seasonings.

2) "Seasoned Ground Beef" is a cooked product. It's not a raw one.

If cooked, uncured red meat products that contain added solutions/substances prior to cooking are cooked back to or below the weight of the fresh (green weight) article, words, such as "seasoned" and "flavored," are to be used to reflect the addition of the added substances, e.g., Seasoned Cooked Beef.
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Does it needs to be called "Seasoned Cooked Ground Beef"? Here's the Guidelines:

Any descriptive designation used as a product name for a product which has no common or usual name shall clearly and completely identify the product. Product which has been prepared by salting, smoking, drying, cooking, chopping, or otherwise shall be so described on the label unless the name of the product implies, or the manner of packaging shows that the product was subjected to such preparation.
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Is it obvious that the product is a cooked one? If the answer is yes, then "Cooked" may be dropped from the label name. Hence there is no need to call it "Seasoned Cooked Ground Beef" because we already know that the regulations requires the product to be cooked with seasonings to get the description "Seasoned", thus "Seasoned Ground Beef" is the same as "Seasoned Cooked Ground Beef" and is all that we need to label it.

Do you understand this?
 
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PhantomWolf said:
Do you understand this?
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I've not read the last 15 or so pages of this thread, but I think I can answer this one: No.

The suit references the regulations at issue and 3BP is making up arguments ad infinitem about other stuff. Whether he is right or wrong is completely beside the question of what is at issue in the suit. The thread lost its way some where in the first few pages and will never again be about the suit, apparently.
 
3bodyproblem said:
Do you mean Taco Bell or the supplier? Because there are laws preventing the supplier from labeling it incorrectly.



No that's because it's taco meat filling.



Not as an ingredient in ground beef.
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TACO MEAT FILLING

Read more about it at www.cooks.com/rec/view/0,1727,153160-251196,00.html
Content Copyright © 2011 Cooks.com - All rights reserved.

1 lb. ground beef, chicken or turkey
8 oz. tomato sauce
3/4 tsp. salt
1/2 c. chopped onion
1 tsp. chili powder
1/2 tsp. garlic powder

Brown meat. Stir or chop until crumbly. Drain fat. Stir in other ingredients. Cover and simmer 10 minutes. Add to taco shells and garnish as desired.
 
3bodyproblem said:
tl;dr

Taco Bell gets in a product called taco meat filling, then advertises it as seasoned ground beef. That makes them deceptive, because anyone can tell you taco meat filling isn't seasoned ground beef.
And by anyone I mean the USDA. It's as plain as the nose on your face.

There's no specific law preventing Taco Bell from advertising veal cutlets and serving pork cutlets instead. That doesn't change the fact that it's deceptive.
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Seasoned ground beef.

This seasoning recipe can be doubled or tripled and stored to use as necessary. This recipe will season 1lb of ground beef.
Prep Time: 15 minutes
Total Time: 15 minutes
Ingredients:

* 2 tablespoons oregano
* 1 tablespoon chile powder
* 1 teaspoon cumin
* 1 teaspoon garlic powder
* 2 teaspoons onion powder
* 1/2 teaspoon salt
* 1 lb ground beef

Preparation:
Shake or mix all ingredients together.

To season ground beef- Brown ground beef until well done. Add 1/2 cup of water and seasonings and let simmer until liquid is absorbed. Add additional salt if necessary.
 
Dr. Keith said:
I've not read the last 15 or so pages of this thread, but I think I can answer this one: No.

The suit references the regulations at issue and 3BP is making up arguments ad infinitem about other stuff. Whether he is right or wrong is completely beside the question of what is at issue in the suit. The thread lost its way some where in the first few pages and will never again be about the suit, apparently.
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It will be when anything new happens about the suit. Right now, no one's saying a thing in the media, there's no new developments, nothing else to talk about.

When something comes up, I'm sure it will be discussed.

What is there about the suit that you'd like to discuss? I'm sure if you bring it up, you'll find a few takers.
 
3bodyproblem said:
Sometimes people can be rather dense.

This is very simple. What Taco Bell advertises as "Seasoned Ground Beef" would not meet the USDA guidelines to be labeled as "Seasoned Ground Beef". The fillers and extenders would prohibit the product, raw or cooked, from being labeled anything but "Taco Meat Filling".

Since "seasoned ground beef" isn't "taco meat filling" and "seasoned ground beef" is a superior product, in definition and in people's minds, Taco Bell is being deceptive.
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Never deceived me.
 
quadraginta said:
I think I understand now.

3BP was deceived by Taco Bell's advertising, and his rage at discovering this has affected his ability to parse the English language.
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Yes, imagine your chagrin when you bite into a TB taco expecting to taste good ol' ground beef only to discover that they had put seasonings in the meat.

ETA: such a shock could cause one to lose their religion, deny god, become an internet troll....
 
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I got some chalupas today for lunch. It's hard to be sure, but there seemed to be a distinct boost in the "beef" flavor. Like it was really, really flavorful in a good way. I usually don't like their food, and I had it a couple months ago, so I don't know what was up with the change. I was expecting a psychosomatic effect that was negative due to all the hype around this recent topic. But maybe my taste buds were acutely effected and the tasty factor was actually boosted by my suspicions. Or maybe Taco Bell is reacting to the press and they've altered something?

They also gave me a mint and some packaged napkins with a chance to win $1000, which seemed new.
 
Dr. Keith said:
The suit references the regulations at issue and 3BP is making up arguments ad infinitem about other stuff. Whether he is right or wrong is completely beside the question of what is at issue in the suit. The thread lost its way some where in the first few pages and will never again be about the suit, apparently.
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Personally, I'd be more than happy to actually discuss the suit. I did start out attempting to, but then ignorance of food science abounded and I got sucked into correcting... *sighs*

Is there something in particular --you'd-- like to discuss?
 
Here's a bit of humor from Time Magazine:

Taco Bell Now Resorts to Giving Their Food Away

Next we'll be hearing that they're actually paying people to eat this stuff.
In what NewsFeed can only assume is an attempt to overcome bad publicity from the lawsuit that claims the meat Taco Bell uses only contains 36% beef, the fast food franchise is now offering the "World's Largest Taco Giveaway on Facebook." Apparently, 10 million people who "like" Taco Bell on Facebook will be gifted with a free taco.
You know things are bad when you have to resort to giving your product away.
(...)
Will this promotion help? Probably.
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http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/02/10/taco-bell-now-resorting-to-giving-their-food-away/
 
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