Taco Bell sued

[JoelKatz]

The law also states seasonings and salt are allowed as long as they are indicated on the label. So seasoning it doesn't change anything.

You are repeating a refuted argument without addressing the refutation. You are still confusing "seasoning" food with "adding seasonings to" food.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Why do you keep ignoting this part?

"Ground Beef" shall consist of chopped fresh and/or frozen beef

Is the meat you get in your Taco fresh raw meat?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

What? Who told you that or are you just making it up? So you think a retailer can just make up whatever they chose because you think this only applies to meat packers? That's just absurd and I can't believe anyone would make up things like this. As if the law only applies to meat packers. Lol, if anything meat packers have very little to label. And they don't label meat pies and chili con carne and all the other stuff these regulations name. LMFAO, they've got rules for "spaghetti and meat balls". If you ever see them making spaghetti at the meat packers run!

Are we discussing US laws or Canadian laws?

That aside, what you're referencing, 3body, applies strictly to

Subpart B--Raw Meat Products

319.15 Miscellaneous beef products.

Is the beef in your taco served raw? No? Then that definition doesn't apply. Period. Thus, this subsection doesn't apply to (most) restaurants as we're discussing cooked meat. And I say (most) because the only raw meats I know of being served are not beef (here's a hint: they're seafood - oysters, clams, sushi, etc). And even then, Subpart B doesn't have definitions for seafood, only for Raw misc beef products (319.15) and Raw misc pork products (319.29). Again, your quoted law only applies to those who sell the meat product raw - meat packers/butchers.


The taco filling is ground beef, prepared for consumption by being seasoned (part of that includes the addition of water and oats). The only applicable law anyone has brought forward in this thread is the minimum beef content required for the "taco meat filling" (or whatever it specifically is) title. Being as the ingredient is advertised as "Seasoned ground beef" and ground beef is the largest, by volume, ingredient next to water and the seasoning, it would be pretty difficult for the maths to work where there's an insufficient amount of ground beef to meet the "taco meat filling" requirements (we're talking like crazy amounts of seasoning, like...inedible food because of all the seasoning and/or a soup mixture) There are only 5 ingredients:

Beef
Water
Seasoning
Salt
Sodium Phosphates

So in order for the beef to not be over the minimum limit, say it's 39% beef, you'd have to have 61% of the product be water and seasonings (including salt). That's a lot of water and seasoning (by volume). You'd have taco flavored chili before you'd have taco filling.

No, the FDA is American last I checked.

Still Canadian.

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/meavia/man/ch7/table7e.shtml

So, which one of these is the misstatement?

Not in their tacos, in their "ground meat". Try to read the legislation BobThe Donkey.

Do try to keep up. The legislation you've quoted does not apply to Taco Bell as TB does not sell raw meat (see above).

 

[Furcifer]

You are still confusing "seasoning" food with "adding seasonings to" food.

wah?

 

[Furcifer]

Is the meat you get in your Taco fresh raw meat?

Is it "ground beef"? Nope.

 

[Furcifer]

Are we discussing US laws or Canadian laws?

They're the same.

Is the beef in your taco served raw? No? Then that definition doesn't apply. Period.

Yes it does. What magic do you attribute to a stove that it can change some beef and filler mix into "ground beef"?

Thus, this subsection doesn't apply to (most) restaurants as we're discussing cooked meat.

Yes it does. Why do you keep lying? Cite your source for this lie you keep trying to perpetuate.

Again, your quoted law only applies to those who sell the meat product raw - meat packers/butchers.

Yes it does. Feel free to cite your source on this.

The taco filling is ground beef, prepared for consumption by being seasoned (part of that includes the addition of water and oats).

No that's taco filling, not ground beef.

There are only 5 ingredients:

Beef
Water
Seasoning
Salt
Sodium Phosphates

That's not the recipe for "ground beef", that's taco filling.

Do try to keep up. The legislation you've quoted does not apply to Taco Bell as TB does not sell raw meat (see above).

This is just a lie that keeps being repeated, BUT NEVER PROVEN.

Feel free to cite your source on this though. I'll be waiting.

 

[JoelKatz]

wah?

"Seasoning food" and "adding seasonings to food" are two different things. Taco Bell fairly describes their filling as "seasoned ground beef" because adding a mixture containing oats (in a reasonable quantity such that the resulting mixture is still mainly beef) does in fact season the ground beef.

The difference is that "a seasoning" (the noun) is an additive specifically aimed at flavor (salt, pepper, garlic, and so on). Whereas "seasoning" (the verb) food can refer to any process that renders a particular food more interesting in terms of flavor or texture.

There are many cases where the noun and verb forms have subtly different meanings, "season" is not unusual in this respect. You can fish for things other than fish. You can season with things other than seasonings.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Is it "ground beef"? Nope.

Finally, no it's not "ground beef", and it's not advertised as "ground beef", it's "seasoned ground beef", something that is a different product, for a start "seasoned ground beef" is a cooked product while "ground beef" is a raw product.

You need to understand that "seasoned ground beef" =/= "ground beef".

 

[PhantomWolf]

3bodyproblem,


TITLE 9 - ANIMALS AND ANIMAL PRODUCTS

CHAPTER III - FOOD SAFETY AND INSPECTION SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

SUBCHAPTER A - AGENCY ORGANIZATION AND TERMINOLOGY; MANDATORY MEAT AND POULTRY PRODUCTS INSPECTION AND VOLUNTARY INSPECTION AND CERTIFICATION

PART 319 - DEFINITIONS AND STANDARDS OF IDENTITY OR COMPOSITION

subpart b - RAW MEAT PRODUCTS

319.29 - Miscellaneous pork products.

Just down from the 319.15 Miscellaneous beef products, states that:

Such product (pork) shall have a pinkish color and a fresh odor and appearance.

You contend that these regluations apply to the meat both raw and cooked, even though it states raw meat. Do you then claim that cooked pork must still be pink and that as a result, cooked pork that is white does not meet the regulations and is therefore illegal?

 

[PhantomWolf]

Well this settles it, the regulations do not apply to resturants.


TITLE 9 - ANIMALS AND ANIMAL PRODUCTS

CHAPTER III - FOOD SAFETY AND INSPECTION SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

SUBCHAPTER A - AGENCY ORGANIZATION AND TERMINOLOGY; MANDATORY MEAT AND POULTRY PRODUCTS INSPECTION AND VOLUNTARY INSPECTION AND CERTIFICATION

PART 303 - EXEMPTIONS

303.1 - Exemptions.

(d)(1) The requirements of the Act and the regulations in this subchapter for inspection of the preparation of products do not apply to operations of types traditionally and usually conducted at retail stores and restaurants, when conducted at any retail store or restaurant or similar retail-type establishment for sale in normal retail quantities or service of such articles to consumers at such establishments

 

[BobTheDonkey]

They're the same.



Yes it does. What magic do you attribute to a stove that it can change some beef and filler mix into "ground beef"?



Yes it does. Why do you keep lying? Cite your source for this lie you keep trying to perpetuate.



Yes it does. Feel free to cite your source on this.



No that's taco filling, not ground beef.



That's not the recipe for "ground beef", that's taco filling.




This is just a lie that keeps being repeated, BUT NEVER PROVEN.

Feel free to cite your source on this though. I'll be waiting.

My source is the same source you're using. Only I looked to see to what the law applied, not just what fit my needs at the time. In this case, as I pointed out earlier, the law you found only applies to raw meat. Period. It's right there, black and white. And as PhantomWolf has shown, the legislation only applies to meat suppliers, not restaurants.

So when TB states that their "seasoned ground beef" contains beef and seasonings, it's completely factual and legally accurate. I explained this in my last post, and you have introduced no evidence to refute my conclusion, choosing instead to claim you haven't been proven wrong when you have in fact been conclusively shown to be in error.


You are wrong, hung by your own petard (evidence). That you refuse, blatantly, to acknowledge your mistakes and given your response to my post, I have to conclude that you are being disingenuous in this discussion and I refuse to continue in this manner.

 

[slingblade]

I see Phantom Wolf posted the pertinent part of those regulations before I could.

Only thing I can add now is this bit from a news story:

The plaintiffs would have to prove that most diners believe they are getting something other than what Taco Bell serves. Most customers realize taco meat has ingredients besides beef, Williams said.

In addition, the lawsuit cites U.S. Department of Agriculture guidelines for labeling ground beef. The problem? They don't apply to restaurants. The USDA's rules apply to meat processors - the companies Taco Bell buys its meat from.

Tyson Foods Inc., the company's largest meat supplier, said it mixes and cooks the meat at three USDA-inspected plants.

http://azstarnet.com/business/local/article_e6d798be-4a51-5991-98e6-b6f8d3dca7b2.html

So, yeah.

 

[roger]

You crazy people, using the actual facts to support your logic. What is wrong with you?

 

[BenBurch]

Do not feed tacos to the troll. As you can see, once you feed the troll he won't go away...

 

[mortimer]

Do not feed tacos to the troll. As you can see, once you feed the troll he won't go away...

I suspect he won't be back after PhantomWolf's post.

 

[Beanbag]

Okay, folks, this has reached the level of absurdity. I'm unsubscribing from this thread.

And I thought the CT subforum was bad!

Beanbag

 

[Furcifer]

Well this settles it, the regulations do not apply to resturants.


TITLE 9 - ANIMALS AND ANIMAL PRODUCTS

CHAPTER III - FOOD SAFETY AND INSPECTION SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

SUBCHAPTER A - AGENCY ORGANIZATION AND TERMINOLOGY; MANDATORY MEAT AND POULTRY PRODUCTS INSPECTION AND VOLUNTARY INSPECTION AND CERTIFICATION

PART 303 - EXEMPTIONS

303.1 - Exemptions.

The LEAN Act passed in March of 2010 removed these exemptions for restaurants with over 20 locations or so called "chains".

Not that it matters. An "exemption" doesn't mean the law doesn't apply to them. If someone, like a class action law suit alleges they are contravening the regulations the FDA can request reasons why Taco Bell feels they should be exempt.

I can't believe after all the hassle Mac Donald's has went through over the years anyone would believe for a second they are free from regulations that would require them to properly label their food.

 

[Furcifer]

And as PhantomWolf has shown, the legislation only applies to meat suppliers, not restaurants.

Wrong, an exemption does not mean the law does not apply.

Try using some logic, do you honestly think every restaurant in NA is going to submit a recipe and preparation methods to the FDA? Obviously not. Nor is every backyard butcher doing a cow for a freezer order going to be required under the law to follow the regulations. The same goes for a grocery store cutting up a loin to sell as chops.

It's pretty obvious how the laws apply to Mac Donald's and other large chains aren't the same for Uncle Peppey's Steak Emporium off route 10.

 

[mortimer]

The LEAN Act passed in March of 2010 removed these exemptions for restaurants with over 20 locations or so called "chains".

Not that I expect that you'll be able to, but at least try to provide some evidence. First off, the LEAN Act never passed... it was partially incorporated into the healthcare reform act. Those provisions are for posting caloric and other nutritional information about menu items (again, "seasoned ground beef" is NOT a menu item), not about listing ingredients. But that's up to the FDA to decide, so that provision is not going to go into effect for several years.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/03/22/menu-measure-health-bill-requires-calorie-disclosure/

But feel free to provide evidence that this provision removed *any* exemptions to rules around the packaging of meat products.

Not that it matters. An "exemption" doesn't mean the law doesn't apply to them. If someone, like a class action law suit alleges they are contravening the regulations the FDA can request reasons why Taco Bell feels they should be exempt.

Laughable. Again, evidence?

I can't believe after all the hassle Mac Donald's has went through over the years anyone would believe for a second they are free from regulations that would require them to properly label their food.

First, it's McDonald's, not Mac Donald's. Second, nobody is claiming that they are free from such regulations. They just want you to back up your claims about these regulations, which you've failed to do, over and over again.

 

[Emet]

I presume the FTC will decide the case:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/policystmt/ad-food.shtm

Nothing unusual about Taco Bell's meat, experts say
Ingredients what you'd expect from fast-food restaurants; no advertising rules broken
(...)
According to the USDA, which regulates the nation's meat supply, "taco meat filling" is required to contain at least 40 percent fresh meat and must be labeled with the product name, including the word "filling."

But that requirement applies to raw meat sold by manufacturers. The USDA doesn't regulate what companies such as restaurants can describe to their customers in advertisements as "beef," "chicken" or "meat," said USDA press officer Neil Gaffney.

The Federal Trade Commission is the agency that regulates whether or not advertising is deceptive. The FTC has no specific rules that define what can be advertised as meat or beef, said Betsy Lordan, an FTC spokeswoman.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-0202-taco-bell-meat-20110202,0,3075583,full.story