Taco Bell sued

[Furcifer]

Well, both. If it's not too much trouble.
If you don't have the time, you could at least just explain how you know.

I ask because, as we all know, there are urban legends and the like.

Usually the urban legend is about "hooves and lips". That's wrong because for one thing the regulations prevent the use of cartilage and bone (a percentage limit) for anything but pet food. (or processed to make gelatin). For another there just isn't enough to meet the demand for hot dogs and sausages. There are plenty of "scraps" to make hot dogs or sausages (or scrapple).

The regulations (I cited earlier) do however allow for much more fat to be used in fresh porkbreakfast sausages than for hot dogs. In that sense there is more crap in them.

The regulations do allow for defects like rodent hairs, droppings, maggots, insects and mold. It's called the Food Defect Action Level. While it doesn't cover meat products specifically, it does say that it is treated on a "case by case" basis if needed.

I hope that helps clarifies things a bit.

 

[JoelKatz]

'Taco filling' can have very low actual meat, in this case it is calling it 'seasoned ground beef' that is the problem.

In that case, the meat content issue is irrelevant. Ground beef cannot, by law, contain water. If the 'seasoned ground beef' must meet the legal requirements for ground beef (which permit seasoning but prohibit water), then Taco Bell loses. Taco fillings almost always contain some water (and Taco Bell's is no exception).

 

[Furcifer]

Does the filling contain extenders? (I believe that it did.)

That's probably the basis for the law suit.

Did Taco Bell call the filling itself ground beef? (I believe that they didn't.)

I know they do: http://www.tacobell.com/food/tacos

We all understand that Taco Bell's ground beef filling is not ground beef.

Then that's what they should call it. (I'm guessing that's what the lawsuit is saying). Just because they are lying and we know it doesn't make it OK to lie.

It contains ground beef, but it is not ground beef.

That's not possible according the the regulations I cited. Ground beef is ground beef, not taco meat or hamburgers or beef patties or fake steak. I think what you're looking for here is "made from ground beef".

You can make a burger with fillings and extenders. Many fine establishments do. You just can't call it "100% ground beef".

No because that would be like calling a head of lettuce a salad.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Even if it was 100% beef, it's not like the cow was 100% cow anymore. They're all pumped full of hormones and mutant genetic stuff and fed on heaven-knows-what (but likely includes other cows). Whatever Taco Bell's selling, it's probably less gross than actual "beef" these days anyway.

 

[Ryokan]

Irrelevant. Taco Bell is tasty, and will be the last fast food chain standing in the Demolition Man future.

In the European version, it was Pizza Hut..

 

[neutrino_cannon]

In that case, the meat content issue is irrelevant. Ground beef cannot, by law, contain water. If the 'seasoned ground beef' must meet the legal requirements for ground beef (which permit seasoning but prohibit water), then Taco Bell loses. Taco fillings almost always contain some water (and Taco Bell's is no exception).

Err, enlighten me. Does "no water" mean "no added water" or does it mean the stuff has to be jerky?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

This reminds of Steve Dallas, from Bloom County. He's sitting in his office, bored out of his mind, nothing to do. Then he mutters, "What this town needs is another lawyer."

 

[Furcifer]

In the European version, it was Pizza Hut..

Wow, crazy coincidence. I watched that movie on Saturday night and was confused because I always remembered them saying Taco Bell but they were saying Pizza Hut. It wasn't until near the end of the movie I finally googled it and discovered this bit of trivia.

I also googled the 3 sea shells.

 

[JoelKatz]

Err, enlighten me. Does "no water" mean "no added water" or does it mean the stuff has to be jerky?

I'm using 'containing' in a technical sense to mean that it would have to be listed as an ingredient. Nobody makes a taco filling that is 100% beef because it would taste horrible, your pretty much have to add water because there is no other way to get water-based flavorings (such as garlic) into ground beef.

 

[JoelKatz]

I know they do: http://www.tacobell.com/food/tacos

I don't see any place they call the filling ground beef. They do call it 'seasoned ground beef' which presumably would mean something that is primarily ground beef but also contains other things that make it a palatable taco filling. From what I understand, that's precisely what it is.

 

[Furcifer]

I don't see any place they call the filling ground beef. They do call it 'seasoned ground beef' which presumably would mean something that is primarily ground beef but also contains other things that make it a palatable taco filling. From what I understand, that's precisely what it is.

(a) Chopped beef, ground beef. "Chopped Beef" or "Ground Beef"
shall consist of chopped fresh and/or frozen beef with or without
seasoning and without the addition of beef fat as such, shall not contain more than 30 percent fat, and shall not contain added water, phosphates, binders, or extenders.

Perhaps this makes more sense now? The standard set out by the regulations say that "Ground Beef" with or without seasoning SHALL NOT contain more than 30% fat and no binders or extenders.

Based on what I'm reading they can't call it "seasoned ground beef" they should be calling it "seasoned taco filling", or "[something] made from ground beef".

 

[The Don]

Is this one of these questions of definition ?

The lawsuit alleges only 36% beef but Taco Bell say 88% BUT......

of that 88% meat, 30% is fat - leaving, by one definition a little over 60% lean meat.

Perhaps a (large ?) proportion of that meat is mechanically recovered meat slurry rather than prime cuts - lowering one definition (a particularly harsh one) of "meat" even further.

 

[Furcifer]

Is this one of these questions of definition ?

The lawsuit alleges only 36% beef but Taco Bell say 88% BUT......

of that 88% meat, 30% is fat - leaving, by one definition a little over 60% lean meat.

Perhaps a (large ?) proportion of that meat is mechanically recovered meat slurry rather than prime cuts - lowering one definition (a particularly harsh one) of "meat" even further.

12) The term ``meat'' and the names of particular kinds of meat,
such as beef, veal, mutton, lamb, and pork, shall not be used in such
manner as to be false or misleading.

It seems to me if they are using the term "meat" to mean both protein and fat it would be misleading.

 

[JoelKatz]

Perhaps this makes more sense now? The standard set out by the regulations say that "Ground Beef" with or without seasoning SHALL NOT contain more than 30% fat and no binders or extenders.

Exactly but this is "seasoned ground beef", not "ground beef".

Based on what I'm reading they can't call it "seasoned ground beef" they should be calling it "seasoned taco filling", or "[something] made from ground beef".

The regulations only say they can't call it "ground beef". I don't see any reason they can't call it "seasoned ground beef", which would suggest that it has seasonings beyond those normally found, and permitted, in "ground beef".

The regulation is specifically about what can be called "ground beef" to protect that exact term. It is quite ordinary to add qualifiers to terms that don't meet the normal definitions of the unqualified terms. For example "cheese spread" doesn't meet the legal requirements for "cheese". A "toy car" probably isn't going to meet the safety requirements for a "car".

If I were buying something at the grocery store that promised to be 100% "ground beef" I would expect it not to contain fillers or extenders, and this regulation protects that reasonable expectation. But if it were labeled "seasoned ground beef", I would not expect it to contain absolutely nothing but beef and seasoning because "seasoned ground beef" is not a term that has a precise definition. I would feel defrauded if it wasn't mostly beef and seasonings, but I would expect things like water that may not be added to something sold as "ground beef". This is especially true because taco fillings routinely contain water and texture modifiers.

 

[Psi Baba]

From the Taco Bell website, this is the list of ingredients for "Seasoned Ground Beef"

Beef, Water, Seasoning [Isolated Oat Product, Salt, Chili Pepper, Onion Powder, Tomato Powder, Oats (Wheat), Soy Lecithin, Sugar, Spices, Maltodextrin, Soybean Oil (Anti-dusting Agent), Garlic Powder, Autolyzed Yeast Extract, Citric Acid, Caramel Color, Cocoa Powder (Processed With Alkali), Silicon Dioxide, Natural Flavors, Yeast, Modified Corn Starch, Natural Smoke Flavor], Salt, Sodium Phosphates.

"Beef" is listed first and is therefore in the largest proportion by weight. "Water" is listed second. If there was more water than beef, it would be more like chili or pasta sauce, and it isn't. "Seasoning" is listed third and includes "isolated oat product" which is most likely an oat flour that's used as a thickener. Oats are much less dense than meat and if there was more oat flour, by weight, than beef, the stuff would be an unpalatable paste. If the ingredient list they provide is true and accurate, then I don't see a problem. I would bet that their lawyers vetted the designation of "seasoned ground beef" years ago and they appear to be comfortable with it.

 

[slingblade]

Perhaps this makes more sense now? The standard set out by the regulations say that "Ground Beef" with or without seasoning SHALL NOT contain more than 30% fat and no binders or extenders.

Based on what I'm reading they can't call it "seasoned ground beef" they should be calling it "seasoned taco filling", or "[something] made from ground beef".

Okay, wait. I may be missing something already covered, but I think a critical error is being made here.

The regulations quoted are for the meat packing company that produces the ground beef. Those aren't restaurant standards.

While it's true that the packing company can't add water to the ground beef it processes (because that would make it heavier, and would be fraud), once a restaurant receives that processed ground beef, they can add as much water to it as whatever recipe they're using calls for. Of course Taco Bell can add water to their ground beef to make their taco filling. It's part of the recipe.

They can call that "seasoned ground beef," if they like. It's a recipe.

 

[Furcifer]

Exactly but this is "seasoned ground beef", not "ground beef".

You must realize how flawed this logic is right? If I add purple dye and call is "purple ground beef" it's still "ground beef". Where you put the quotes is irrelevant.

For example "cheese spread" doesn't meet the legal requirements for "cheese". A "toy car" probably isn't going to meet the safety requirements for a "car".

No. You're screwing up your qualifiers. Think logically, if the regulation says "cars" must have seat belts you can't say it's a "red car" and not be subject to the law.

If I were buying something at the grocery store that promised to be 100% "ground beef" I would expect it not to contain fillers or extenders. But if it were labeled "seasoned ground beef", I would not expect it to contain absolutely nothing but beef and seasoning because "seasoned ground beef" is not a term that has a precise definition. I would feel defrauded if it wasn't mostly beef and seasonings, but I would expect things like water that may not be added to something sold as "ground beef".

No, the regulation specifically says whether it has seasoning or not is irrelevant to the definition.

 

[CynicalSkeptic]

In the European version, it was Pizza Hut..

Both chains were owned by PepsiCo.

 

[Furcifer]

The regulations quoted are for the meat packing company that produces the ground beef. Those aren't restaurant standards.

There's no such distinction under the law. It's "the seller" whether it's wholesale or retail. (I know from the butcher shop we were required to follow these laws)

They can call that "seasoned ground beef," if they like. It's a recipe.

I think it depends on if labeling is distinguished from marketing under the law. The thing is on the website, technically it's labeled "ground beef".

I don't know what the laws are concerning how things are marketed.

 

[slingblade]

From the Taco Bell website, this is the list of ingredients for "Seasoned Ground Beef"

"Beef" is listed first and is therefore in the largest proportion by weight. "Water" is listed second. If there was more water than beef, it would be more like chili or pasta sauce, and it isn't. "Seasoning" is listed third and includes "isolated oat product" which is most likely an oat flour that's used as a thickener. Oats are much less dense than meat and if there was more oat flour, by weight, than beef, the stuff would be an unpalatable paste. If the ingredient list they provide is true and accurate, then I don't see a problem. I would bet that their lawyers vetted the designation of "seasoned ground beef" years ago and they appear to be comfortable with it.

The Oat Product and oats (wheat) are listed within another ingredient, the seasonings. The proportion of oat flour is, to use the technical term, not very much, as it is contained with all those other ingredients within the interior brackets as part of the seasoning mix only.

So the greatest ingredient in the seasoning mix is that oat product, which is probably the base for the seasonings. How much seasoning, proportionately speaking, do we estimate is used in the average batch of taco filling? Maybe a tablespoon or so per pound? It certainly doesn't sound to me like any oat products make up a significant portion of the recipe.