Tablets - toys or tools?

[Darat]

Do you think the current offerings from Droid would have been here had there been no iPhone?

Linda

No because the iPhone has been hugely influential in regards to styling however there were also many precursors to the iPhone in terms of functionality that indicate that Apple were originally following a trend rather than setting it. For example going back to things like the Sony P800 that was launched almost ten years ago - which had a full face touch-screen, could run downloadable programmes, play videos, built in camera and even launched with copy & paste functionality.

 

[Babbylonian]

Do you think the current offerings from Droid would have been here had there been no iPhone?

Linda

Do you think the current offerings from the iPhone would have been here if there had been no Palm and, later (but still long before iPhone), Palm Treo?

Believe me, there's little profit in trying to make out the iPhone or iPad as pioneering devices. At best, they're simply more well-marketed refinements of previous devices.

 

[not daSkeptic]

This sounds very profound. I'm not sure exactly what you want to say by it though.

There seems to be some sort of dichotomy I am not privy to which insists that if it is suggested the iPad is not as useful as it might have been then therefore I am asserting it is somehow useless. I don't believe I have been trying to make such a claim.

Useless, no. But the impression I've been getting (from others as well) is that the lesser capability of the iPad is intrinsically problematic. The point I've been trying to make (which I see Kid Eager has echoed) is that it is only problematic for those who find the iPad to be too limited.

 

[ponderingturtle]

To no one in particular...

The reasons (conscious) that I buy Apple products:

1) Brand loyalty. They've served me well in the past.

2) Consistent GUI over time. I've used Windows and could learn it, but staying with the Mac GUI is easier.

3) Durability. Simple anecdotes, but nearly all my Apple products have outlasted nearly all my Windows products.

4) Integration. I like the way my Mac integrates with my iPhone and other devices, and the ease of use of iPhoto, iMovie, iTunes and iDVD.

5) Elegance. I have a "unibody" MacBook Pro and the engineering is quite elegant. As were many of the Apple products I owned before.

6) Stability. OSX virtually never crashes, which is nice.

7) MUCH less need to worry about viruses.

8) Oh, and did I mention Apple's are cool?

And it is all being integrated though their core OS of iTunes.

BTW, I was joking about the floppy drive. I just remember the brouhaha when Apple deleted it from the iMac. And a similar kerfluffle now about MacBook Air's without optical drives. (or iPads without USB/HDMI/SD slot, you name it.) I do believe the iPad, and MacBook Air's are heralding the demise of the need for huge on-board storage, and that hard drives are on their way out across the board for portable devices. And portable connectivity requiring wires will seem similarly archaic in a few short years - hence no need for the cost, complexity and space requirements of a whole row of ports.

Of course they haven't gotten rid of on board storage, they just refuse to let you expand it with out paying their inflated prices.

But people are happy in the Windows world, just as they are in the Apple world. Neither are blind sheeple falling prey to marketing and cool. Both get the job done and have satisfying experiences. One or the other will appeal to different people for different reasons, so there's no reason to berate one or the other.

But if belittling Apple and Apple users somehow fulfills you, belittle away!

Admittedly most of my dislike of them is focused on their mobile devices.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I don't understand how you make the leap to that last sentence (that is the part that my question was directed at). Are you presuming that because you think the iPad is a toy, that that is how it is generally perceived? So other tablet makers are now directing their resources in regards to technological progress towards satisfying requirements for toys and have dropped R and D into business use (hence the new devices which offer cameras and phones rather than AutoCad)?

I suspect you could run Cad software on many of the netbook tablets. It is the difference between a full computer tablet and a large PDA.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I gave example to illustrate this, in the smart phone market. There is no technical reason why Apple limited their devices' capabilities. What is most unfortunate is that the iPhone users don't know what they are missing, that Android can give them. This, of course, applies to those who want smartphones, and not those who want a conventional phone.

There are good marketing reasons to do this though, that way they always have some significant improvement for the next model. That is why the first iPhone and the iPad are intentionally hamstrung.

 

[not daSkeptic]

Anything you might use a keyboard for ...

I see little practical value in this. Jotting down a quick note or making a rough sketch is one thing, but any serious data-entry is generally far more efficient using a keyboard. I can type way faster than I can write. Asking around the office I get the same answer.

 

[not daSkeptic]

Of course they haven't gotten rid of on board storage, they just refuse to let you expand it with out paying their inflated prices.

This assumes, of course, that one wants to expand it.

ETA: This seems to be a common theme in this thread. One should be able to do something even if they have no need to.

 

[fls]

No because the iPhone has been hugely influential in regards to styling however there were also many precursors to the iPhone in terms of functionality that indicate that Apple were originally following a trend rather than setting it. For example going back to things like the Sony P800 that was launched almost ten years ago - which had a full face touch-screen, could run downloadable programmes, play videos, built in camera and even launched with copy & paste functionality.

Please note I'm not trying to imply that Apple is a pioneer in the field. And I'm not an Apple fanboy (if I understand what that means ). I just get surprised at the scorn directed its way when my impression is that it is just one of a number of companies offering tech devices.

I'm wondering why everyone isn't trying to offer devices which fix the deficiencies of the Sony P800 instead of the iPhone?

Linda

 

[fls]

Do you think the current offerings from the iPhone would have been here if there had been no Palm and, later (but still long before iPhone), Palm Treo?

Believe me, there's little profit in trying to make out the iPhone or iPad as pioneering devices. At best, they're simply more well-marketed refinements of previous devices.

I didn't mean to imply that they were pioneering devices. It just looks like they are very good at engendering criticism of how they did it wrong, positioning other companies to offer devices that are "the iPhone done right".

Linda

 

[fls]

Of course they haven't gotten rid of on board storage, they just refuse to let you expand it with out paying their inflated prices.

I guess the onboard storage must be relevant, since people seem to buy different levels. I have to admit that with the increasing ease with which archives can be accessed, I am moving towards storing my stuff centrally and simply accessing it when needed, rather than trying to keep everything on my devices from the get go. Beyond a threshold, the storage on a device becomes irrelevant. But of course, there are devices available with this option for those who need it.

Linda

 

[not daSkeptic]

Do you think the current offerings from the iPhone would have been here if there had been no Palm and, later (but still long before iPhone), Palm Treo?

As I understand it, this is actually one of Apple's tactics. They wait for others to go first, they watch to see what works and what doesn't, they distill it down to what's actually important (not just what's popular), and when they feel the time is right they release their own product. They prefer best-to-market over first-to-market.

 

[not daSkeptic]

I have to admit that with the increasing ease with which archives can be accessed, I am moving towards storing my stuff centrally and simply accessing it when needed, rather than trying to keep everything on my devices from the get go. Beyond a threshold, the storage on a device becomes irrelevant.

This.

 

[Wowbagger]

There are good marketing reasons to do this though, that way they always have some significant improvement for the next model. That is why the first iPhone and the iPad are intentionally hamstrung.

Well, good for them.

Some of us would rather not have products that are intentionally hamstrung, if we can avoid them.

 

[Wowbagger]

Hmmm. I use both and I hadn't really noticed.

With Droids you can:

• Run Adobe Flash animations
  
• Run all sorts of other video and audio codecs Apple's devices can't
  
• Set up a mobile WiFi HotSpot, for others to use
  
• Use navigation software without paying a separate fee
  
• Customize your widget-based desktop
  
• replace the software keyboard, phone dialer, and other core components if you like an alternative better
  
• Depending on the network, you can use Skype and Video Chatting, etc. anywhere. No network or protocol limits are imposed by the phone. (Though, some carriers might stick their own limits on these things.)
  
• Replace the battery and SD chip, yourself
  
• Run any app, anyone creates, without hassle or jailbreaking
  
• Develop apps without API limits or fees, using either native C or Java. Other languages might also be available. No licensing is imposed by the phone's OS.
  
• etc.

I tried to order those from features most people would want in their iPhone, if they could - to the least-needed speciality features.

Do you think the current offerings from Droid would have been here had there been no iPhone?

Eventually. But, I don't think the point matters much.

 

[ponderingturtle]

With Droids you can:

• Run Adobe Flash animations
  
• Run all sorts of other video and audio codecs Apple's devices can't
  
• Set up a mobile WiFi HotSpot, for others to use
  
• Use navigation software without paying a separate fee
  
• Customize your widget-based desktop
  
• replace the software keyboard, phone dialer, and other core components if you like an alternative better
  
• Depending on the network, you can use Skype and Video Chatting, etc. anywhere. No network or protocol limits are imposed by the phone. (Though, some carriers might stick their own limits on these things.)
  
• Replace the battery and SD chip, yourself
  
• Run any app, anyone creates, without hassle or jailbreaking
  
• Develop apps without API limits or fees, using either native C or Java. Other languages might also be available. No licensing is imposed by the phone's OS.
  
• etc.

This is the kind of micro management that apparently apple users love.

 

[not daSkeptic]

With Droids you can:

• Run Adobe Flash animations
  
• Run all sorts of other video and audio codecs Apple's devices can't
  
• Set up a mobile WiFi HotSpot, for others to use
  
• Use navigation software without paying a separate fee
  
• Customize your widget-based desktop
  
• replace the software keyboard, phone dialer, and other core components if you like an alternative better
  
• Depending on the network, you can use Skype and Video Chatting, etc. anywhere. No network or protocol limits are imposed by the phone. (Though, some carriers might stick their own limits on these things.)
  
• Replace the battery and SD chip, yourself
  
• Run any app, anyone creates, without hassle or jailbreaking
  
• Develop apps without API limits or fees, using either native C or Java. Other languages might also be available. No licensing is imposed by the phone's OS.
  

I don't really see anything in that list that I absolutely need. A few things might be nice in certain limited situations, but no show-stoppers.

 

[fls]

With Droids you can:

• Run Adobe Flash animations
  
• Run all sorts of other video and audio codecs Apple's devices can't
  
• Set up a mobile WiFi HotSpot, for others to use
  
• Use navigation software without paying a separate fee
  
• Customize your widget-based desktop
  
• replace the software keyboard, phone dialer, and other core components if you like an alternative better
  
• Depending on the network, you can use Skype and Video Chatting, etc. anywhere. No network or protocol limits are imposed by the phone. (Though, some carriers might stick their own limits on these things.)
  
• Replace the battery and SD chip, yourself
  
• Run any app, anyone creates, without hassle or jailbreaking
  
• Develop apps without API limits or fees, using either native C or Java. Other languages might also be available. No licensing is imposed by the phone's OS.
  
• etc.

I tried to order those from features most people would want in their iPhone, if they could - to the least-needed speciality features.

Ah, that's why I hadn't noticed.

I come up against the Flash thing every once in a while, in which case I move over to YouTube. The one time it was a problem was for IKEA (of all things). They have an app, but it's really just a PDF of their catalogue, rather than a navigatable substitute. I don't use the navigation because it chews through the battery (I use a navigation device instead), although I would work around this if I didn't happen to have the GPS device before I bought the phone and I was trying to combine both. Or I'd just pay to have the function on my iPhone.

I suspect that rather than "not knowing what they are missing", it's a matter of what kind of functionality (or lack thereof) is noticeable to individual users. For example, the inability to make phone calls and browse the web or send emails would be very noticeable to me.

Eventually. But, I don't think the point matters much.

Sorry. I don't think I asked my question very well.

Linda

 

[Darat]

...snip...

I'm wondering why everyone isn't trying to offer devices which fix the deficiencies of the Sony P800 instead of the iPhone?

Linda

Well they have - that's why we have things like the Droid phones and iPhones!

 

[Wowbagger]

I almost forgot to add these to the list, though they are model-specific:

• Advanced haptic feedback on many models
• Slide-out physical keyboard on some models. Lots of people like those.
• Auto-destruct mechanism that can be used if the phone is lost or stolen.
  Wipes out all personal information stored on it, before disabling one of its own core chips... On some models.

This is the kind of micro management that apparently apple users love.

Software developers certainly love it!

I don't really see anything in that list that I absolutely need. A few things might be nice in certain limited situations, but no show-stoppers.

I guess it depends on your needs. Whenever I demo those points to people with iPhone they tend to go "aww man!". Especially at the ones towards the top of the list.

But, I'm sure the iPhone will deliver some of those things, in some form, eventually. The Droid is showin' 'em how!

I don't use the navigation because it chews through the battery

With many Android phones, you can install a longer-lasting battery, than the one it ships with.

I keep thinking about getting one for my Incredible. But, I found that simply carrying my recharger with me, everywhere I go, I don't really need it, for now.

I suspect that rather than "not knowing what they are missing", it's a matter of what kind of functionality (or lack thereof) is noticeable to individual users.

That is part of what I am talking about. But, once users know "their phone can do that", they sometimes start using that feature.

I once met someone who didn't realize you could multi-task with the Droids by holding down the Home icon. The thin printed "manual" didn't mention it, (nor the fact that a thicker manual was on the phone in digital form).
But, once he knew that, he now uses it a lot.

For some folks, once you show them the WiFi HotSpot capabilities on the Droid, they start wanting it on their iPhones.