• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Szamboti's Missing Jolt paper

Dave Rogers said:
There are plenty of quotes from firemen saying there were heavy fires on most floors of WTC7. Is that good enough for you, or are firemen less of an authority on fires than on (say) explosions or molten metal?

Dave
Click to expand...

Are NIST wrong then when they say fire was on 15 floors of wtc7?
 
bardamu said:
Once the rotation was under way, what stopped the upper block from tilting right over and toppling over the side?
Click to expand...
Physics.

First, the upper block tends to rotate about its center of gravity, which keeps it more centered than someone unfamiliar with physics would believe. Secondly, the tilt causes the side that's tilting downward to collide with the lower section before the opposite side does. Hence most of the energy needed to destroy the lower section's resistance comes from that side; by the time the opposite side collides with the lower section, the top floor of the lower section and its connections have already been broken and can't put up much resistance. That asymmetry tends to cancel the rotation of the upper section and could even begin to reverse it. In theory, the upper section could have gone through several reversals of rotation, bouncing from one direction of tilt to the other as it collapsed.

To know what really happened, you'd have to look at the evidence. The collapse was too complicated and too chaotic for you to trust your intuition, even if you're an engineer.
 
Edx said:



The point is that Truthers ignore the firefighters when it suits them.
Click to expand...

And debunkers ignore the NIST report when it suits them.

NIST say a total of 15 floors only were ever observed to be on fire. Some firefighters say EVERY floor was on fire. Do you think both of these can be true?
 
Justin39640 said:
Fires on 15 floors simultaneously, with no firefighting.
What do you think the result should be?
Click to expand...

They weren't on fire simultaneously. Why must you lie like that?

The 15 floors were on fire at some point in the 7 hour period, not all at the same time.
 
vinniem said:
And debunkers ignore the NIST report when it suits them.

NIST say a total of 15 floors only were ever observed to be on fire. Some firefighters say EVERY floor was on fire. Do you think both of these can be true?
Click to expand...

Maybe they realise that not all floors were on fire and that one firefighter must have exaggerated.

The point is that no firefighter anywhere makes the claims that truthers do about Building 7.... which is that it wasnt that damaged, small isolated fires and that no one would think it would collapse.

Truthers have to call all the FDNY liars when it comes to Building 7, but boy if they mention an "explosion" they'll be quoting it for years
 
Edx said:
Maybe they realise that not all floors were on fire and that one firefighter must have exaggerated.
The point is that no firefighter anywhere makes the claims that truthers do about Building 7.... which is that it wasnt that damaged, small isolated fires and that no one would think it would collapse.

Truthers have to call all the FDNY liars when it comes to Building 7, but boy if they mention an "explosion" they'll be quoting it for years
Click to expand...

That is a brave admission. Not often do debunkers admit that firefighters lied.
 
vinniem said:
And debunkers ignore the NIST report when it suits them.

NIST say a total of 15 floors only were ever observed to be on fire. Some firefighters say EVERY floor was on fire. Do you think both of these can be true?
Click to expand...


OMG a major anomaly! Quick, quick, a paper to a peer reviewed journal! Get the Troof out!

Clue insert: witness statements aren't 100% reliable.
 
vinniem said:
That is a brave admission. Not often do debunkers admit that firefighters lied.
Click to expand...

I never said he lied, read the actual words. Also look up the word "hyperbole" while you're at it.

Too bad you never addressed my point, maybe because you dont want to admit you believe all the FDNY are liars and covering up the Truth(tm), but no truthers like to admit that. You have to force it out of them as that's where all their arguments end up eventually when it comes to Building 7.
 
Last edited:
Edx said:
I never said he lied, read the actual words. Also look up the word "hyperbole" while you're at it.

Too bad you never addressed my point, maybe because you dont want to admit you believe all the FDNY are liars and covering up the Truth(tm), but no truthers like to admit that. You have to force it out of them as that's where all their arguments end up eventually when it comes to Building 7.
Click to expand...

You said "exagerrated". Exagerration is lying.
 
vinniem said:
You said "exagerrated". Exagerration is lying.
Click to expand...

Uh no it isnt.

If I go outside and say its freezing and that I've never been this cold... Im exaggerating, I'm not lying. Crack out a dictionary and find out if exaggeration and hyperbole is defined as "lying". FYI unless its an attempt to deceive, neither of which are understood to be lying or dishonest.

So is this what you've been reduced to? Semantics?

How about my actual point? Nah, wouldn't want to address that, would you?
 
Last edited:
Edx said:
Uh no it isnt.

If I go outside and say its freezing and that I've never been this cold... Im exaggerating, I'm not lying. Crack out a dictionary and find out if exaggeration and hyperbole is defined as "lying". FYI unless its an attempt to deceive, neither of which are understood to be lying or dishonest.

So is this what you've been reduced to? Semantics?

How about my actual point? Nah, wouldn't want to address that, would you?
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie

The various types of lies include the following:

...

Exaggeration
Click to expand...
 
And perhaps their "exaggeration" (coupled with the evidence of the building deforming, and the transit movement) led to the building being evacuated earlier, saving lives?

ETA and the point is that truthers like to quote firefighters when they say "boom" but ignore them when they say "we all knew WTC7 was going to come down for reasons z, y, z..."
 
vinniem said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie
Click to expand...

YEA.... :rolleyes:

You can lie by exaggeration but not all exaggerations are lies.

"It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally."
- wikipedia - Hyperbole

So I guess you dont want to address my point and rather TELL me what I mean rather than actually listen to me.

Good job. And you wonder why I stopped being a truther? Its because of people like you.
 
Last edited:
Edx said:
YEA....

Not all exaggerations are lies but some lies are exaggerations...

"It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally."
- wikipedia - Hyperbole

So I guess you dont want to address my point and rather TELL me what I mean rather than actually listen to me.

Good job. And you wonder why I stopped being a truther? Its because of people like you.
Click to expand...

No I don't wonder at all. You stopped being a truther because you wanted to fit in. Your last statement tells me everything I needed to know.

What is your point wrt the firefighters?
 
vinniem said:
No I don't wonder at all. You stopped being a truther because you wanted to fit in. Your last statement tells me everything I needed to know.
Click to expand...

Which statement? You ignored my point and proceeded to redefine a word to claim I meant something I AM TELLING YOU I never meant.

What is your point wrt the firefighters?
Click to expand...

I've told you so many times I even put it big bold letters and coloured it red for you at the top of the page.

The fact that you deny any knowledge of it despite still being on the same page of the thread where I have talked about this several times in different ways tells ME everything I need to know about YOU.
 
Last edited:
Here you go Vinniem, I look forward to you ignoring this again.

I don't know why you are playing games and pretending you never saw any of this


The point is that no firefighter anywhere makes the claims that truthers do about Building 7.... which is that it wasnt that damaged, small isolated fires and that no one would think it would collapse.

Truthers have to call all the FDNY liars when it comes to Building 7, but boy if they mention an "explosion" they'll be quoting it for years
Click to expand...


Too bad you never addressed my point, maybe because you dont want to admit you believe all the FDNY are liars and covering up the Truth(tm), but no truthers like to admit that. You have to force it out of them as that's where all their arguments end up eventually when it comes to Building 7.
Click to expand...


But dozens and dozens talk about massive fires, and not one dissenting opinion can be found anywhere from any of them either on or after 911 on this.

The point is that Truthers ignore the firefighters when it suits them.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom