Sylvia Browne - Split from: "Is troy a typical debunker"

VulcanWay said:
Arkan, I think that I can say that we are in agreement (even if I may not have gotten it across correctly) - your comments in each case (except the ad hominem, where you take the next step) echo the points that I was trying to make.
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"Close enough for gov't work" as it were.
 
Aphelion:

The key point here is that what Sylvia Browne claims to be able to do are easily replicated by numerous people using perfectly mundane methods of cold (and hot) reading. Her results seem entirely consistent with this approach and therefore it is unnecessary to claim she has paranormal abilities to explain what she does and the results she gets.

Now if she does have such powers it is up to her to demonstrate that the results she gets are in fact from paranormal sources, and to explain why she does no better than a cold reader would do in these circumstances. If she cannot do that then what reason do we have to suppose she does anything but cold reading? And if it is just cold reading she relies upon, then she IS a fraud and should be stopped before she hurts anyone else.

The claims against Sylvia Browne are not speculations that stumble upon coinciding evidence, they are claims based upon experience and knowledge of the psychic industry and the evidence of Sylvia's track record. The evidence suggests the conclusion, not the other way around. We have done the first part - now it is up to Sylvia to put up or shut up.
 
VulcanWay said:
I do see your point, Horatius. I think it can still be said that if she lied to carry off the fraud for which she was convicted doesn't prove that she is not a psychic from a logical standpoint. It does prove that she told whatever lie was necessary to carry off a fraudulent sale.

My argument up there was not whether she was committing fraud, but rather can you prove that she is not psychic. I do agree that she is committing fraud from a legal standpoint, but in the strictist logical sense (like my existance of god thing above) cannot prove that she is lacks psychic abilities.
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Yes, in the strictest sense, we can't conclusively prove she isn't psychic, but I think we can "look at the track record". A person with a demonstrated history of lying for financial gain is asking us to believe something pretty unreasonable, on nothing better than her word, and against a lot of evidence to the contrary.

It wouldn't (and probably shouldn't) stand up in court, but I think we as individuals have enough evidence that we can decide the burden of proof is now on her to prove she isn't lying.
 
Having 1 vs. 100 on tonight, I saw that Alison Dubois was eliminated at one point. Bob Saget mentioned that the TV Show "Medium" was based on her life, and asked if she knew that the contestant she was going against would get as far as he had. She said "Of course I knew that! I just thought I'd get a little farther myself."

Yeah, like she predicted the guy's progress beforehand...
 
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