Suzanne Hadwin - Council ghostbuster

[bubblygirl]

Whatever the real cause whether fraudelent or not? The family seemed to have a real fear of whatever it was and to be honest we are talking minimal amount here arent we? The family risked 'going public' also.
What would have happened had the council not helped them? That's what i ask?

 

[bubblygirl]

Who knows what's really out there and who are we to know others beleifs etc. It's very easy to poo poo stuff but to the family in question it was real for them whether we beleive it or not thier fear seemed very real?

I think this is where we part ways regarding the topic. Allow me to explain: What is really out there is what's been there all along - the universe. It's ignorance that creates fear, because people fear the unknown - and if you know nothing, you fear everything.

So how would you define fear of someone 'knowing' something and someone 'knowing' alot about what?? We build up our own concepts and beleifs built up on experiences of either ourselves or others linked to us. People could have understanding of the unknown and still be afraid of it? It would depend on the definition of what unknown is and to whom perhaps?? Why be afraid of it or pershaps afraid to accept its existence because of beleifs ??

Yes, their fear was probably real enough, but it's based in their minds, not reality.

Dont all beleifs start with a mind? How are you to define what reality is you can only give your own concept based on your beleifs perhaps and others concepts through reading others views?


Originally Posted by bubblygirl
And if you want to knock that why is it then that insurance companies have a view point of 'an act of God' in their policies? What does this tell us?
It tells us that insurance companies want to be absolved of their fiduciary responsibilities if a cataclysmic event occurs in a given locale.

true i agree here!

Originally Posted by bubblygirl
It seems, in my view those that knock other fears of spirits, poltergiests and the like, are they also knocking the beleifs that founded nations?
Name one nation founded upon any of that. Just one will do.

Name me a nation not founded on religious beleifs of somekind?
Look at civilisation most of the civilised world is christian? it has also been the destruction of nations also.
Ancient egyptians beleived in gods this perhaps underpinned rituals and behaviour of the people in how they led their daily lives etc. The British Empire is an example also based on christian prinicples which has spread global.

Originally Posted by bubblygirl
So if that's the case what is wrong with this family having beliefs that their home really is haunted by a force of somekind?
What's wrong with it is that the true source of their emotional distress is unidentified - and therefore cannot be addressed. This increases the likelihood that they will continue to suffer in one form or another from the real root cause of their misery, whatever that may be.

We can never assertain that now can we? Only the family themselves know that if thats the case? We can only go by whats in the media and thats not always clean and clear cut is it? It seems to me that why would a family put themselves through so much stress of 'going public' , knowing that they could be ridiculed, their childrens names and faces put in the press. So why do you think their council reacted the way they did and what policies, underpinned their actions do you think?Originally Posted by bubblygirl

I know these could be strong views but i really feel strongly about what people are saying in these forums.
Just don't allow "feeling strongly" to close your mind to the discussion at hand.

Very true i agree with you on this im certainly not closing my mind and love the discussion at hand


Originally Posted by bubblygirl
Something to bear in mind perhaps, I bet someone knows somebody personally that has experienced something that they can't explain , that could be deemed as possibly paranormal?
How about me?



Yep, I've experienced things I can't explain that could be deemed as paranormal. They also fall under the category of "Things I can't explain that can be deemed natural". The scorecard shows that "natural" wins 100% of the time so far... so that's where *my* money is.

So tell me then what is natural to you? Can you explain please? How can something be defined paranormal or natural? Perhaps all natural things are paranormal and all paranormal things are natural??
__________________

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

are you familiar with ALL insurance policies , im certainly not?? I am aware of such wording in an inusrance policy that i have had.

Nope. Then again I never claimed that insurance companies had such a clause and that this "told us" something as a result.

I remain skeptical of your claim that this is a phrase in common use in the insurance industry, until you provide some evidence of course.

Search of Halifax insurance website for the word "god": results none.

Search of Direct Line home insurance policy pdf for the word "god": results none.

Search of Axa travel insurance policy pdf for the word "god": results none.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Whatever the real cause whether fraudelent or not? The family seemed to have a real fear of whatever it was and to be honest we are talking minimal amount here arent we?

The amount is unimportant. Unless of course you can give me a threshold amount below which you consider it unimportant that public money is fraudulently obtained? And convince me that this is reasonable.

 

[bubblygirl]

It seems, in my view those that knock other fears of spirits, poltergiests and the like, are they also knocking the beleifs that founded nations?
What nation was founded on getting taken for a ride by con artists?

No proof to say they are con artists or genuine, again only based on peoples opinions?
Originally Posted by bubblygirl

So if that's the case what is wrong with this family having beliefs that their home really is haunted by a force of somekind?
They are free to believe what they want, just as we are free to laugh at them.

Very true but im pleased for them that their council didnt laugh at them.


Originally Posted by bubblygirl
I know these could be strong views but i really feel strongly about what people are saying in these forums.

There is a lot of wisdom in these forums, sometimes it is hard to see when you are blinded by your beliefs.

Who is anyone to define what wisdom is, wisdom to one , may not mean anything to another? To some wisdom could be their own beleifs?


Originally Posted by bubblygirl
Something to bear in mind perhaps, I bet someone knows somebody personally that has experienced something that they can't explain , that could be deemed as possibly paranormal?
I have experienced much that I couldn't explain. The default answer is not found in the paranormal. To write everything off that we don't understand as ghosts, or god, or any other form of woo is irresponsible

Why should it be irrespnsible or responsible, who says it's 'written off'? Why would anyone want to be irresponsible/responsible to write things off as 'things they dont understand'? I dont think people care enough really to want to take responsiblity for it?

 

[bubblygirl]

i said i had this in a policy that ive had,not that i have and just because it may or may not be present now doesnt mean to say that it hasnt been present in wording in the past.

 

[bubblygirl]

i can never answer that question but if what options did the council have? Do they follow their procedures, policies, equal opportunties and accept that the family had an issue (or so the family beleived enough to warrant going to thier council)? Or dismiss it as not worth dealing with and not recognize the families needs. The council can only react to families needs if the family approaches them for help, also they can only do what their guidelines polices etc allow them to do so i would like to hear from a council housing worker to answer why did the council chose to support the family what policies, guidelines did they use to justify paying half of the exocism costs?

 

[bubblygirl]

well the family must have beleived something for them to contact a medium in the first place?

 

[bubblygirl]

well the family must have beleived something for them to contact a medium in the first place?

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

i said i had this in a policy that ive had,not that i have and just because it may or may not be present now doesnt mean to say that it hasnt been present in wording in the past.

You claimed that insurance companies (plural) have (present tense) a view point of "an act of God" in their policies.

So far all you have produced to support this claim is your statement that a policy you had in the past (and for which you have produced no evidence) had this wording. If you hang around in this forum (and hopefully you will), you will realise that almost every claim here is challenged and that you will be asked for evidence to support any that you make.

Making a claim that is not backed up will damage the argument you are putting forward.

(You might find this link useful - it is intended to help new members out with things like the quote function which will help people follow which comments you are replying to in each post. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85266)

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

 

[bubblygirl]

thanks for your welcome. Much appreciated.
As regards to the subject you mention this was long ago the wording is no longer used i have been advised due to the grey area of exactly what acts of god actually are so we cud be chasing round in circles.

The term act of god i have been advised were/are things deemed to be of natural occurance such as storms, floods etc.

I dont really want to break the true vein of this thread to be honest but thanks for your comments and dont wish to carry on with the debate thanks

 

[sophia8]

Bubblygirl, you still haven't answered my question about Hadwin's conduct. How is "There's an evil spirit in your house that wants to harm your child, but I can get rid of it. For only £60...." any different from, say, "There are some nasty people around. And you tell me you've got a lovely little kiddy. I can come round and take care of things for you. And I'll only charge £60..."?

 

[bubblygirl]

i think what you could think about it where the family got the idea that there was a ghost in the house and where they got the idea to contact the medium?
Whether false or genuine people will always make money from people how they do it is upto them according to what people want at the time.

Whether Suzanne Hadwin is genuine or not she provided a service that the Fallon family were looking for genuine or not.

 

[CFLarsen]

i think what you could think about it where the family got the idea that there was a ghost in the house and where they got the idea to contact the medium?
Whether false or genuine people will always make money from people how they do it is upto them according to what people want at the time.

Whether Suzanne Hadwin is genuine or not she provided a service that the Fallon family were looking for genuine or not.

Let me get this straight.

Are you saying that as long as the customer is satisfied, it doesn't matter if the product is fake or not?

 

[Erhard Schmits]

I guess the basic question is if ghosts (spirits) do exist or not. My answer is yeas they do. What you are doing here is nitpicking. And for those that don't believe in ghosts it's fine ,too. They might change there tune when confronted with a situation where there is an apparition or haunting.

 

[sophia8]

I guess the basic question is if ghosts (spirits) do exist or not. My answer is yeas they do. What you are doing here is nitpicking. And for those that don't believe in ghosts it's fine ,too. They might change there tune when confronted with a situation where there is an apparition or haunting.

Erhard, I was once a Spiritualist; I even went in for mediumship training. I fully believed in ghosts and the afterlife and attended seances and circles two or three times a week. However, after about four years, I started wondering why, unlike everybody around me, I had never seen any definitive proof of such things; everything (and I do mean everything) that I saw and heard could have had a mundane, non-paranormal explanation. When I started asking mediums about this, I was told, more or less, that I shouldn't question such things.
In short, I was ready and willing to "change my tune". But no ghosts or spirits ever obliged for me, then or since.

 

[bubblygirl]

hi there i guess it only matters to who ever wants to buy the service in the first place. Of course it matters to the provider of the service but surely, i should imagine they may have looked into it i dont know? There must have been some kind of convincing but to be honest ive yet read another article in the media that gives a completely different acccount!!!!?? All I know is my own opinion and if i was in the same posititon as that family and scared outta my witts i think i would definitely get what i beleived to be a medium in because its at least something or someone that could understand what i beleived to be a horrible situation to be in. The fact that she claims to be a medium fake or not i would still beleive that she could offer some kinda comfort otherwise why would she be advertising?

 

[bubblygirl]

Erhard, I was once a Spiritualist; I even went in for mediumship training. I fully believed in ghosts and the afterlife and attended seances and circles two or three times a week. However, after about four years, I started wondering why, unlike everybody around me, I had never seen any definitive proof of such things; everything (and I do mean everything) that I saw and heard could have had a mundane, non-paranormal explanation. When I started asking mediums about this, I was told, more or less, that I shouldn't question such things.
In short, I was ready and willing to "change my tune". But no ghosts or spirits ever obliged for me, then or since.

why should the spirit world have to give proof of anything?
We can see the affects of the wind yet we can never take a picture of the wind, yet we know it exists and theories as to why it happens?
If there was totally no such thing as ghosts then there's gotta be an awful lot of 'nutty' people out there myself inlcuded hee hee and i know im not totally nuts yet?!

(ps the term 'nutty' is not intended to be derogatory to people with mental health in anyway apologies if offence caused).

 

[Big Les]

why should the spirit world have to give proof of anything?

It shouldn't (assuming for one moment it exists) - the psychics should. They are making claims for which people are paying money. They have to be able to show that they can do what they say. You try applying your logic in hiring a builder and let me know how it goes.

We can see the affects of the wind yet we can never take a picture of the wind, yet we know it exists and theories as to why it happens?

Yes, via simple, repeatable observations for which there are proven theories. Nothing like this exists for psychic claims.

If there was totally no such thing as ghosts then there's gotta be an awful lot of 'nutty' people out there myself inlcuded hee hee and i know im not totally nuts yet?!

(ps the term 'nutty' is not intended to be derogatory to people with mental health in anyway apologies if offence caused).

That's what's known as an argument from popularity, and it means nothing without substantiating evidence. Just because a lot of people believe in something, doesn't make it true.

 

[Erhard Schmits]

Erhard, I was once a Spiritualist; I even went in for mediumship training. I fully believed in ghosts and the afterlife and attended seances and circles two or three times a week. However, after about four years, I started wondering why, unlike everybody around me, I had never seen any definitive proof of such things; everything (and I do mean everything) that I saw and heard could have had a mundane, non-paranormal explanation. When I started asking mediums about this, I was told, more or less, that I shouldn't question such things.
In short, I was ready and willing to "change my tune". But no ghosts or spirits ever obliged for me, then or since.

Thank you for responding to my post In a kind and frank manner. I am not a spiritualist in the sense that that people belong to spiritualistic churches. But I do believe 100% in spirits and a continues life partly because of my upbringing partly because of things I experienced as a child and partly because of things I studied. I am sure if a sensitive person goes about trying to get in contact with spirits he or she will succeed. Problem is that not everybody is sensitive enough. Like the say: you either have it or you don't. You see, I don't have it either. I think I had it at one time but I was so terrified that I built up a wall to protect myself and I am not looking forward to meet any spirits. That, however, did not stop me to attend a materialization séance with Warren Smith some 30 odd years ago. The things that we (there were some thirty sitters) experienced there were impossible to fake. I cannot post any links but just goole "Warren Smith medium" and get some info on him.
I don't know if you ever experimented with a wijaboard. This is the easiest way to contact spirits but I do strongly advise against it as it opens the door to the most primitive or lowest kinds of spirits. A lot of damage ha been done because of it. I myself know of a case.

Erhard