Survival

[The Man]

Yes but more specifics may go on adding due to new understandings

However, you are going in the wrong direction, being less specific.

eg. latent diabetes.

From some of the other posts I’ve read that seems to be your particular affliction (as psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis are mine). You should try to study that (your affliction that is) instead of just trying to dissect the terminology (like “latent”) to apperently your own preference.

I feel you are quote right here. Thanks. Whether cancer in early stages can be considered as latent(somewhat like HIV)?

As a retrovirus, HIV inserts itself into the genetic material of the host cell and thus can remain dormant for some considerable period of time. As a mutation of the genetic material, cancer isn’t really dormant (once the mutation occurs) in the same regard, although it can still remain hidden for some time (as I think Lukraak_Sisser remarked before).

Thanks. At least you endorssed that latent can also be other way.

You’re welcome. What “other way” do you think I ‘endorsed’?

 

[Kumar]

However, you are going in the wrong direction, being less specific.

Ok thanks.

From some of the other posts I’ve read that seems to be your particular affliction (as psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis are mine). You should try to study that (your affliction that is) instead of just trying to dissect the terminology (like “latent”) to apperently your own preference.

Only diabetes, rest other can be due to curicity or for near & dear ones.

What for psoriasis?

As a retrovirus, HIV inserts itself into the genetic material of the host cell and thus can remain dormant for some considerable period of time. As a mutation of the genetic material, cancer isn’t really dormant (once the mutation occurs) in the same regard, although it can still remain hidden for some time (as I think Lukraak_Sisser remarked before).



You’re welcome. What “other way” do you think I ‘endorsed’?

You thought I am latent or addicted in my actions.

 

[Shadow the Poodle]

To get fruits, we may not need to understand deep of whole tree. Getting fruits is more important. Moreover You can't say I don't have any knowledge & interest. Although it can be different.

Ah ha , so you are trying to cherry pick some facts (fruits)to fit your theories without understanding the underlying science of these facts.
It all becomes clear to me now.

 

[The Man]

Ok thanks.

As always, no problem.

Only diabetes, rest other can be due to curicity or for near & dear ones.

OK, “Only diabetes”, you should try to study the basics first and once you understand them, then try to delve more deeply into that particular specific. As for the rest, I’m sorry, I just don’t understand what you are trying to say, though I do understand that there may be a language barrier between us.

What for psoriasis?

As an autoimmune condition, as I mention before, I inject a tumor necrosis factor inhibitor* to suppress that condition. Unfortunately, I’m without medical insurance at this time, so I must supplement that treatment (basically half the TNFI I should use) with methotrexate*. That also suppresses the immune system, but by a different (and far cheaper) method, though it is also quite nasty (bad for the liver). Oh, and I also take folic acid* as the methotrexate inhibits the metabolism of folic acid (gives me more to metabolize). It’s all about trade offs and interactions (one of the points I was trying to make to you before).

You thought I am latent or addicted in my actions.

Nope, I am sorry if you got that impression. However, as you do posit that consideration, I would say that you are certainly not latent. Your activity here demonstrates that, but you may be addicted to such limited actions. As this also seems apparent by your activity here as opposed to actually learning and positing questions evident of said learning.


*By prescription


ETA:
After thinking about I realized what you meant before was ‘out curiosity and for your friends and family’. Learning the basics is still a good (if not the only) place to start.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Understanding of , what make cells to remain bounded at one point, can be important to know--whether this is cancer cell mediated or defence system's mediated.

Yes, and this is one of the many many studies done in biochemistry with as ultimate aim understanding how these things work and how it may be used against cancer. However, again I feel the need to stress that there is no internal defense system against cancer.
Evolutionary there was never any need as cancer does not pose a threat to our species to the extent that it would inhibit reproduction.

Sorry, i meant common biochemical changes/instability on becoming cancerous. Whether they display excessive intracellular Potassium?

Cancer cells look like, as if they are dehydrated or shrinked. Is it so, that they are bit dehydrated? Dehydration/water defficiency may be related to cells to become hards, i think as plants in dessets. Water plants on the other side can be bit delicate as money-plant.

The answer to both those questions is again that it totally depends on a particular strain of cancer. Breast cancer started by mutation in gene X1, followed by mutations in genes A2,Z39,B4,N34 will not be the same as skin cancer started by a mutation in gene T2, followed by mutations in gene F3 and K44. The starting setup of the cell will be different and none of the mutations are the same, so the actual internal biochemistry of the cells will in no way be comparbale.
Also, the analogy between plants doesnt work, that is the result of millions of years of evolution, cancer cells cannot adapt that quickly.

Ca2 may also be related to vascular tone, signaling ion etc. Probably it may also effect blood supply to tumor.

Yes it may. Or it does not, see the above answer

What happens to blood flow to tumor? Is it decreased or increased? I suspect decreased which may somewhat control growth & multiplication of cancer cells.

Actually most tumors are very well supplied with blood, there is some reason which I've had a lecture about, but I must admit I've forgotten the details. Something to do with the synergy between fast growing tissue and the way blood vessels are produced.









What about non-cancerous tumors? Are they encapsuled or restricted anyway from outside environment?[/QUOTE]

 

[Kumar]

Yes, and this is one of the many many studies done in biochemistry with as ultimate aim understanding how these things work and how it may be used against cancer. However, again I feel the need to stress that there is no internal defense system against cancer.
Evolutionary there was never any need as cancer does not pose a threat to our species to the extent that it would inhibit reproduction.





The answer to both those questions is again that it totally depends on a particular strain of cancer. Breast cancer started by mutation in gene X1, followed by mutations in genes A2,Z39,B4,N34 will not be the same as skin cancer started by a mutation in gene T2, followed by mutations in gene F3 and K44. The starting setup of the cell will be different and none of the mutations are the same, so the actual internal biochemistry of the cells will in no way be comparbale.
Also, the analogy between plants doesnt work, that is the result of millions of years of evolution, cancer cells cannot adapt that quickly.



Yes it may. Or it does not, see the above answer



Actually most tumors are very well supplied with blood, there is some reason which I've had a lecture about, but I must admit I've forgotten the details. Something to do with the synergy between fast growing tissue and the way blood vessels are produced.

Thanks. You have given enough replies. I learned a lot & now satisfied. Probably some different understanding may bring something new in the help of humanity. May God Bless to you. Best regards & wishes.



What about non-cancerous tumors? Are they encapsuled or restricted anyway from outside environment?

 

[The Man]

Actually most tumors are very well supplied with blood, there is some reason which I've had a lecture about, but I must admit I've forgotten the details. Something to do with the synergy between fast growing tissue and the way blood vessels are produced.

Relating to Angiogenesis, the only reason I remember is that anti-angiogenesis drugs (or angiogenesis inhibitors) had been considered as a treatment for psoriasis (not sure if they still are).

 

[paximperium]

To get fruits, we may not need to understand deep of whole tree.

No. At your level you're not even getting fruits. You're eating dirt.

Getting fruits is more important.

No. Getting random factoids without any basic knowledge or actually understanding is not important. In fact it is detrimental. You believe you know stuff when in fact you don't understand any of it.

Moreover You can't say I don't have any knowledge & interest. Although it can be different.

No. I can say that you pretty much have no actual knowledge of what you are talking about. You have random factoids and no actual understanding of even the basics.

You are lazy. You don't seem to want to do the hard work of actually understanding the basics but instead want to jump ahead into arguing with points that you don't understand and instead what others to do the hard work for you. Despite that, you seem unable to even get these simplified attempts at educating you.

So I ask you again.
Why don't you actually spend your time and effort to get an actual medical education instead of running around and asking a whole host of questions that are often not related and which you often have no basic understanding to even form an actual question?

 

[Kumar]

As always, no problem.



OK, “Only diabetes”, you should try to study the basics first and once you understand them, then try to delve more deeply into that particular specific. As for the rest, I’m sorry, I just don’t understand what you are trying to say, though I do understand that there may be a language barrier between us.

I studied & discussed a lot about diabetes & I feel problem in type2 diabetics is excessive & continual insulin's exposure to target cells.

As an autoimmune condition, as I mention before, I inject a tumor necrosis factor inhibitor* to suppress that condition. Unfortunately, I’m without medical insurance at this time, so I must supplement that treatment (basically half the TNFI I should use) with methotrexate*. That also suppresses the immune system, but by a different (and far cheaper) method, though it is also quite nasty (bad for the liver). Oh, and I also take folic acid* as the methotrexate inhibits the metabolism of folic acid (gives me more to metabolize). It’s all about trade offs and interactions (one of the points I was trying to make to you before).

Can we think about psoriasis, either increased transcapillary movements of water , nutrients & immune cells causing overgrowth & increased immune cell's movement? Other side, decreased transcapillary movements causing defficient nutrients to skin cells & early death?

 

[Kumar]

No.

If everyone think like it, how forums will run? Teaching & learning, asking & telling, give or take etc. make this society run.

 

[paximperium]

If everyone think like it, how forums will run? Teaching & learning, asking & telling, give or take etc. make this society run.

If you don't understand what anyone is teaching, you are not learning.

Why won't you answer this question:
Why don't you actually spend your time and effort to get an actual medical education instead of running around and asking a whole host of questions that are often not related and which you often have no basic understanding to even form an actual question?

 

[paximperium]

I studied & discussed a lot about diabetes & I feel problem in type2 diabetics is excessive & continual insulin's exposure to target cells.

What about it?
Anyone can google that.

Can we think about psoriasis, either increased transcapillary movements of water , nutrients & immune cells causing overgrowth & increased immune cell's movement? Other side, decreased transcapillary movements causing defficient nutrients to skin cells & early death?

No.

 

[Kumar]

Once in the bloodstream, the cancer cell must fight the body's defenses and try to reattach itself in a new location. Fewer than 1 in 10,000 cancer cells survive circulation to create a new tumor. The circulation of the blood plays a significant role in determining where cancer cells travel....
Ivan Stamenkovic of Harvard Medical School supported this theory when he was able to direct the metastatic spread of tumor cells by inserting a certain adhesion molecule into a mouse's liver. The tumor cells homed in on the liver because of the inserted molecules. The inserted adhesion molecules had the right markers that tumor cells were looking to bind to. This and many other experiments show that both the tumor cells and the host tissue determine the ultimate site of metastasis.

http://www.oralcancerfoundation.org/facts/metastasis.htm

This seems to be good & clean article on Metastasis.

 

[paximperium]

This seems to be good & clean article on Metastasis.

What about it?

 

[Kumar]

It is about Metastasis.

Placebo Effect Seems Related to Reward Expectations, Dopamine Activity
August 15, 2007 — In a recent study, the release of dopamine into the nucleus accumbens of subjects who received a placebo after a pain challenge correlated with their anticipation of receiving a reward (an analgesic agent). In a second part of the study, subjects who expected to receive a monetary reward for playing a game exhibited a similar placebo-induced increase in dopamine activity in this area of the brain.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/561425

Someone here told previously that "placebo effect" may be beneficial for more than 70% disordes. DBPC studied healing agents or concentrated chemical based agents may miss this oppurtunity. Those who don't believe in place effect or effect due to belief, should also be missing this benefit. How can you assess their survival due to this miss esp. in disorders which can be treated by placebo. I think, in unclear therapies, educated people should not be depending on these in emergency & very serious conditions but taking for those where either chances to be treated otherwise are still there or there are no chances. Still they(believers) may be gaining much in comparism to other who don't gain. What your calculation suggest in this matter?

 

[PixyMisa]

It is about Metastasis.


Someone here told previously that "placebo effect" may be beneficial for more than 70% disordes. DBPC studied healing agents or concentrated chemical based agents may miss this oppurtunity.

No, that's impossible by definition.

Those who don't believe in place effect or effect due to belief, should also be missing this benefit.

No.

How can you assess their survival due to this miss esp. in disorders which can be treated by placebo.

The question makes no sense.

I think, in unclear therapies, educated people should not be depending on these in emergency & very serious conditions but taking for those where either chances to be treated otherwise are still there or there are no chances. Still they(believers) may be gaining much in comparism to other who don't gain. What your calculation suggest in this matter?

You are talking nonsense.

 

[Complexity]

I studied & discussed a lot about diabetes & I feel problem in type2 diabetics is excessive & continual insulin's exposure to target cells.

And yet you remain so ignorant of the subject.

I've got Type 2 Diabetes and really resent your deliberate dissemination of incorrect information on the subject.

You are merely a homeopathy woo trolling on a skeptics' forum.

Shame on you.

 

[paximperium]

Sorry Kumar.
Why don't you actually spend your time and effort to get an actual medical education instead of running around and asking a whole host of questions that are often not related and which you often have no basic understanding to even form an actual question?

 

[Mojo]

Someone here told previously that "placebo effect" may be beneficial for more than 70% disordes. DBPC studied healing agents or concentrated chemical based agents may miss this oppurtunity.

How?

 

[Kumar]

How?

You don't believe or believe in concentrated chemical agents(which may not need placebo effect) there should be missing benefits from belief or placebo effects..