Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

[CurtC]

I'm sorry this happened to you. You describe something very similar to what we found in a series of patients. Did you tell anyone what you'd experienced? Were there any long-term consequences?

I'm not really sorry that it happened, it wasn't traumatic at all. It was a little scary, but I had no discomfort. I told the surgeon, who was at my side in the recovery area, but he brushed it off, saying it was something the anesthesiologist did. No long term consequences. I haven't had general anesthesia since then, but only because I haven't needed it.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I'm not really sorry that it happened, it wasn't traumatic at all. It was a little scary, but I had no discomfort. I told the surgeon, who was at my side in the recovery area, but he brushed it off, saying it was something the anesthesiologist did. No long term consequences. I haven't had general anesthesia since then, but only because I haven't needed it.

Glad to hear that!

I would recommend that you tell your anesthetist should you require GA in the future.

 

[Benguin]

I recall awakening during wisdom tooth removal once. I remembering seeing the dental surgeon hammering the end of something suspiciously like a chisel into my jaw ... and hearing them talking. And then I drifted off again.

I felt hardly any sensation, and was floating as high as a kite at the time. Maybe I should feel lucky, I don't remember the experience as unpleasant at all, quite the opposite.

I wanted to stay awake during my last bout of surgery, just to watch. The anaethastist reckoned that wasn't a good enough reason. Kiljoy.

 

[Dr. Imago]

Re: Re: Re: Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

Ah, well it all comes down to the numbers, doesn't it? Dr. Third Twin has his numbers, and the Joint Commissions have theirs. But Dr. Third Twin's hospital is only one. And perhaps they don't even do any C sections.

Oh. We're talking about C-sections? Well, then you'd probably be surprised to know that most C-sections are not done under general anesthesia. YEP, that's right! The patient is awake anyway. They either already have a spinal or epidural (or combination) block, and are completely awake during the surgery.

But, don't take my word for it...

Surgery is usually done while the woman is awake but anesthetized from the chest to the legs by epidural or spinal anesthesia. An incision is made across the abdomen just above the pubic area. The uterus is opened, the amniotic fluid is drained, and the baby is delivered.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002911.htm

Oh, but I guess the National Institutes of Health (in the U.S.) are part of the evil medical conspiracy too, right?

-TT

 

[Dr. Imago]

Re: Re: Re: Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

I dunno, but C-sections surely must be near the top of the list.
Hey, gotta train those interns/residents somehow.

Oh, brother! Is there no limit to the depth of your ill-informed notions?

First off, C-sections are done by OB/GYN surgeons, not general surgeons. General Surgery is a COMPLETELY different discipline, and c-sections are not part of their training - AT ALL! So, this is just a completely inane assertion born out of complete and total ignorance.

Secondly, the most common surgery is, by a long shot, laproscopic cholecystectomy. It is unbelievable how many people out there are getting their gall bladders cut out these days. Honestly, during my twelve-week surgery rotation, I must have seen at least twoor three of these per day - each day - on the main OR schedule. These patients undergo general anesthesia (isn't that what we were talking about anyway, Rouser) and, in the hands of a good surgical team and anesthesiologist, are so routine that true complications related to the surgery are EXTREMELY rare.

Get your facts straight before you rabble on about subjects you clearly know very little about, especially if you wish to remain under the false belief that you actually have some point.

-TT

 

[Rouser2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

Originally posted by Benguin [/i]


>>Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rouser2

>>Are you trying to say that unneeded surgeries are performed for the purpose of training interns/residents?

Mercy, mercy, that's just what I'm suggesting.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Well it seems illogical, but I'll play along ... what makes you think this? any evidence or is it just a theory?

Illogical? Seems very logical to me, if not exactly moral. One doctor remembers just such a situation when he was Senior Pediatric Consultant to the Dept. of Mental Health in the state of Illinois, he cut out a certain kind of heart operation which was being performed on Mongoloid children with heart defects. The alleged purpose of the operation was to improve oxygen supply to the brain. But the real purpose was to improve the state's residency programs in cardiovascular surgery because "nothing beneficial happend to the brains of the mongoloid children -- and the surgeons knew that." Moreover, the surgery had a fairly high mortality rate."Naturally, the university people were very upset when I cut out the operation. They couldn't figure out a better use for the Mongoloid children."

-- Dr.Robert R. Mendelsohn in "Confessions of a Medical Heretic"

 

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker [/i]

>>The data you linked don't really address your point or my question. You stated that C-sections are one of the most common unnecessary procedures. I was hoping you'd provide a list of the others and give some sense of where C-sections rank.
I bet hysterectomy is higher (but that's really just a guess)


The word "unnecessary" is a subjective word, and not susceptable to any scientific conclusion, -- only opinion.

 

[Rouser2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

Originally posted by ThirdTwin [/i]


>>Oh. We're talking about C-sections? Well, then you'd probably be surprised to know that most C-sections are not done under general anesthesia. YEP, that's right! The patient is awake anyway.


I supposed that all depends on how you define "awake'. But tell it to Dr. Vikam of Bombay, since he was the one who suggested that the majority of "awakened" incidents occurred to C-section patients.

"And considering that most of these awakenings happen during Caesarian sections (since the anaesthesia levels need to be kept low in order to minimise damage to the foetus), ...:"

-- Vikam

 

[Rouser2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

Originally posted by ThirdTwin [/i]


>>Oh, brother! Is there no limit to the depth of your ill-informed notions?
First off, C-sections are done by OB/GYN surgeons, not general surgeons. General Surgery is a COMPLETELY different discipline,

So C-sections do not qualify as surgery since they are not performed by "general" surgeons???? Well, duh.... sure fooled me.

To a C-Seciton patient:

"Now don't be alarmed about the C-Section, dear, since it really isn't surgery and won't even be performed by a general surgeon."

 

[Suezoled]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

Originally posted by ThirdTwin [/i]


>>Oh, brother! Is there no limit to the depth of your ill-informed notions?
First off, C-sections are done by OB/GYN surgeons, not general surgeons. General Surgery is a COMPLETELY different discipline,

So C-sections do not qualify as surgery since they are not performed by "general" surgeons???? Well, duh.... sure fooled me.

To a C-Seciton patient:

"Now don't be alarmed about the C-Section, dear, since it really isn't surgery and won't even be performed by a general surgeon."

A lot seems to fool you Rouser. Quite a lot.

And, any person with half a wit knows that a c section isn't sprung on a woman unexectedly. They are informed, which is more than what I can say about you.

 

[Dr. Imago]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

So C-sections do not qualify as surgery since they are not performed by "general" surgeons???? Well, duh.... sure fooled me.

What part of "OB/GYN surgeons" did you not understand? (Why I bother... )

As far as the attempted C-section sidetrack and obfuscation you make, I already (apparently vainly) tried to educate you to the fact that the majority of women undergoing c-section ARE AWAKE! Your point is completely MOOT! And, I've got news for you, normal childbirth is pretty painful, and even dangerous for some women. I'm sure many of the women on this forum could attest. So, here's a suggestion: how about you and your ilk, seeing as you're so afraid of pain, surgery, the medical establishment, and any perceived risk at all, just cease in having offspring. That way you'll have nothing to worry about.

-TT

(P.S. This has got to be one of the stupidest threads I've seen, and unfortunately for me chosen to participate in, on this forum.)

 

[Capsid]

(P.S. This has got to be one of the stupidest threads I've seen, and unfortunately for me chosen to participate in, on this forum.)

Well, I've managed to stay out of it. Doh!!

 

[anonimouse]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

Illogical? Seems very logical to me, if not exactly moral. One doctor remembers just such a situation when he was Senior Pediatric Consultant to the Dept. of Mental Health in the state of Illinois, he cut out a certain kind of heart operation which was being performed on Mongoloid children with heart defects. The alleged purpose of the operation was to improve oxygen supply to the brain. But the real purpose was to improve the state's residency programs in cardiovascular surgery because "nothing beneficial happend to the brains of the mongoloid children -- and the surgeons knew that." Moreover, the surgery had a fairly high mortality rate."Naturally, the university people were very upset when I cut out the operation. They couldn't figure out a better use for the Mongoloid children."

-- Dr.Robert R. Mendelsohn in "Confessions of a Medical Heretic" [/B]

Again, if you want to use Dr. "I don't think childhood vaccines have any value" Mendelsohn as your expert, then it goes to your bias and utter lack of credibility.

 

[anonimouse]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

I supposed that all depends on how you define "awake'. But tell it to Dr. Vikam of Bombay, since he was the one who suggested that the majority of "awakened" incidents occurred to C-section patients.

"And considering that most of these awakenings happen during Caesarian sections (since the anaesthesia levels need to be kept low in order to minimise damage to the foetus), ...:"

-- Vikam [/B]

As TT vainly tried to tell you, C-Sections are almost always done with spinal epidurals, NOT general anaesthesia. You are not only a contempible loon, you don't even get your basic facts straight.

 

[Rouser2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

Originally posted by ThirdTwin [/i]


>>What part of "OB/GYN surgeons" did you not understand? (Why I bother... )

The part that would suggest that you have a "point" in even making such a statement of difference.

>>As far as the attempted C-section sidetrack and obfuscation you make, I already (apparently vainly) tried to educate you to the fact that the majority of women undergoing c-section ARE AWAKE!....


Not my statement nor obsfucation, but your own since you refuse acknowledge that the C-section detour came from Dr. Vikam, not me. Get it?????

>> Your point is completely MOOT! And, I've got news for you, normal childbirth is pretty painful, and even dangerous for some women.

And just what does that have to do with the price of bananas? Or, for that matter the original subject matter of this thread???


(

 

[Rouser2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

Again, if you want to use Dr. "I don't think childhood vaccines have any value" Mendelsohn as your expert, then it goes to your bias and utter lack of credibility.

Oh, quite the contrary -- it goes to your own predictiable retreat to ad hominem attack for lack of anything else to contribute.

 

[Dr. Imago]

Rouser-

People are trying to scare you. Period. That's all that's happening here, and it's working on you because you are ill-informed and willing to pounce on anything that supports your anti-establishment belief system.

You have no capability of understanding the real issues surrounding this extremely rare occurrence, as you've repeatedly demonstrated through your obfuscation, misdirection, and selective commenting, on this thread. So, I'm not going to bother with you anymore.

-TT

 

[Suezoled]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

(snipped)So, here's a suggestion: how about you and your ilk, seeing as you're so afraid of pain, surgery, the medical establishment, and any perceived risk at all, just cease in having offspring. That way you'll have nothing to worry about.

-TT

The scary part is, what if this idiocy isn't genetic???

 

[Jas]

Re: Re: Re: Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

"Oh, Canada!" Glorious and so unfree. Except for medical care -- the greatest "free" medical care system in the world -- until you need to use it.

Care to explain that statement?

 

[Benguin]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

Originally posted by Benguin [/i]


>>Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Surgery Nightmare -- Yikes!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rouser2

>>Are you trying to say that unneeded surgeries are performed for the purpose of training interns/residents?

Mercy, mercy, that's just what I'm suggesting.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Well it seems illogical, but I'll play along ... what makes you think this? any evidence or is it just a theory?

Illogical? Seems very logical to me, if not exactly moral. One doctor remembers just such a situation when he was Senior Pediatric Consultant to the Dept. of Mental Health in the state of Illinois, he cut out a certain kind of heart operation which was being performed on Mongoloid children with heart defects. The alleged purpose of the operation was to improve oxygen supply to the brain. But the real purpose was to improve the state's residency programs in cardiovascular surgery because "nothing beneficial happend to the brains of the mongoloid children -- and the surgeons knew that." Moreover, the surgery had a fairly high mortality rate."Naturally, the university people were very upset when I cut out the operation. They couldn't figure out a better use for the Mongoloid children."

-- Dr.Robert R. Mendelsohn in "Confessions of a Medical Heretic"

Wewll it is speculative and an anecdote, but might be true.

Doesn't relate to your point though, you seemed to be suggesting that a proportion of routine surgery is done purely for the entertainment/training value of surgeons ... can you provide some evidence, as in research.