Suppose Bigfoot was real and I had the proof?

[Blue Mountain]

So, I'm out there in wilds of Canada, toting about my trusty digital camera and GPS unit. Movement catches the corner of my eye. I turn and look, and to my side many yards off a pair of distinctly hominid eyes peers back at me from the foliage. Quickly I snap a picture, then engage my camera's zoom and take two more. When I lower the camera the eyes are gone.

This scenario is fictional (I enjoy my computer too much to spend time tromping about wilds in search of either recreation or wildlife. ) But suppose I had the camera and GPS with me. Realizing I need to have the picture on my camera's memory card looked at by a professional, how do ensure that a chain of custody is established between my picture (and the current location) and the person who eventually examines the photograph on the memory card?

I understand that a person skilled in digital photography can tell if I attempted to alter the picture that I took with a program like Photoshop or the GIMP. So obviously I wouldn't do that. But I would like to ensure that skeptics here would be unable to say, "Sorry, you can't prove you were where you said you were when and where you took the picture." To me, that's a pretty tall order.

(No, I'm not going to mysteriously show up here this coming September with a bigfoot picture for sale )

 

[kosai]

Well a basic way to see if a picture has been altered would be to check it's EXIF data. You can read more about that here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exif

As far as "chain of custody" goes,not really sure I understand the question, but if you are concerned about it... ummm... Armored car?

 

[sthomson]

You have a camera, and a GPS. To validate your position, take a picture of your GPS unit.

That's about it. Preserve the memory card, don't mess around with the original photos in Photoshop.

 

[athon]

And what evidence would there be that this is not faked on another level? Photographic manipulation might be one thing, but there'd always be the notion that it's merely clever modelling or makeup. The arguments would start afresh over whether a certain crease or wrinkle, or the spacing of eyes, or the detail of pores were capable of being faked.

In all honesty, as science progresses, the demand for evidence which cannot be faked goes up. All in all I feel that short of a specimen or remains, DNA is the only thing which could be accepted as worthwhile evidence of a such a new species. Snap away, by all means, but the age of photographic evidence has passed.

Athon

 

[Blue Mountain]

Well a basic way to see if a picture has been altered would be to check its EXIF data. You can read more about that here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exif

As far as "chain of custody" goes,not really sure I understand the question, but if you are concerned about it... ummm... Armored car?

Thanks. I'm familiar with EXIF. As a professional programmer, I'm also aware I could probably fiddle with the data to cover up an attempt to doctor the photo, were I so inclined.

To me, chain of custody means everyone involved knows what's happened to the memory card from the moment I took the photograph to the moment the picture is posted to the Internet as proof. Unfortunately, since I'm alone at the moment I took the picture, barring some sort of sworn affidavit I don't see how it could be well and truly established that I really was at the position the GPS says I was at the moment I claim to have taken the picture.

Chain of custody could also be established by generating an MD5 or SHA1 sum of the picture's data. If I give a copy of the picture to someone, I can accompany it with the sum. If there are any questions, the first thing to do is compare the sums. If they match, we can be assured we're both talking about the exact same file.

You have a camera, and a GPS. To validate your position, take a picture of your GPS unit.

That's about it. Preserve the memory card, don't mess around with the original photos in Photoshop.

That would go a long way, I think, especially if the picture also included some identifiable landform. Hopefully, too, the GPS will display a time of some sort, which can then be matched to the time and date in the photograph's EXIF data--provided it could later be demonstrated how far off the true time my camera's clock was. I was also thinking it would be a good idea to take additional photographs of the foliage and the surrounding landscape to provide a pattern of EXIF data that would be difficult to fake.

Another thing I can think of doing is setting the read/write switch on the memory card to read-only. Perhaps even something as drastic as gluing it into that position. At the very least it would prevent accidental erasure!

 

[Blue Mountain]

In all honesty, as science progresses, the demand for evidence which cannot be faked goes up. All in all I feel that short of a specimen or remains, DNA is the only thing which could be accepted as worthwhile evidence of a such a new species. Snap away, by all means, but the age of photographic evidence has passed. Athon

Hmm, so in addition to getting a picture, I need to go to the foliage to see if anything has been left behind by the supposed animal. I can see a forensics expert having a field day describing all the ways *I* could contaminate any sample I picked up (Although I guess if I contaminated the sample, it would merely show my DNA and not bigfoot's.)

 

[athon]

Hmm, so in addition to getting a picture, I need to go to the foliage to see if anything has been left behind by the supposed animal. I can see a forensics expert having a field day describing all the ways *I* could contaminate any sample I picked up (Although I guess if I contaminated the sample, it would merely show my DNA and not bigfoot's.)

Of course this would be the next dilemma. Geneticists would only be able to say it was a specimen of unknown source. It wouldn't necessarily qualify as a big-foot. We could possibly hope for a 'non-human primate' result from such an analysis, I guess.

This is what a lot of paranormalists don't get. There's really no such thing in science as a single, one-off discovery of anything. There's the initial finding and then a whole lot of supporting finds or experiments (which is often hidden or missed on reflection in the future). Without subsequent information the discovery is close to useless.

This is why every person who steps up with a crypto discovery of some sort I treat with good humour in lieu of there being follow-up finds.

Athon

 

[mangler]

Change your fictional scenario so that you are gunman instead of a camera man. Kill the beast and chop it's head off. There is no other way.


m

 

[sthomson]

Of course, a GPS unit can be tampered with to display a fake time and location (as trivial as printing up a clear sticker). This sort of tampering would be very difficult to prove.

 

[Tokenconservative]

Let's get together and make some money...lots and lots of rubes out there who'll believe that a guy in a monkey suit is Big Foot!

Tokie

 

[Tokenconservative]

And what evidence would there be that this is not faked on another level? Photographic manipulation might be one thing, but there'd always be the notion that it's merely clever modelling or makeup. The arguments would start afresh over whether a certain crease or wrinkle, or the spacing of eyes, or the detail of pores were capable of being faked.

In all honesty, as science progresses, the demand for evidence which cannot be faked goes up. All in all I feel that short of a specimen or remains, DNA is the only thing which could be accepted as worthwhile evidence of a such a new species. Snap away, by all means, but the age of photographic evidence has passed.

Athon

Indeed. This is what has caused the entire UFO mythos to crumble...it was based around photographic "evidence" to a large degree.

Now, most of the old standbys when subjected to advanced photographic analysis have been found...wanting.

Worse for this religion is the advent of cheap, advanced, very portable imaging capability by everyone from 6 yr-olds with camera cells to folks with small, ever-present digital still and vid. cameras.

When half the population of the world is carrying one of these things virtually every hour of every day we should be seeing a flood of very good, very real photos of UFOs, shouldn't we?

But we aren't.

We also aren't seeing a flood of very good, very real photos of Nessie, Big Foot, Yeti (how many people climed Everest last year...10,000? 15,000?). As for Big Foot, in the 60s and 70s, far fewer people ventured into the deep woods. Now, with so many small, inexpensive ATVs that can take you deep into any place on the N. American continent--with your camera cell and digital imaging device--we should be seeing thousands of Big Foot photos, shouldn't we?

But no...we are not.

In fact, we are seeing far fewer signs of Big Foot than we were when the technology was not there to get us into the deep woods and not there to provide us with lots of very high-quality photos and vids of the big hairy lug.

As much fun as all that stuff has always been, and as much as I dislike seeing that bit of wonder taken away from the world, the ice cold reality is that the lack of evidence for all of these things, from UFOs, to Big Foot and Yeti, to Nessie and other lake monsters, to Mongolian Sandworms and Underdwellers is proof that they simply don't exist.

Tokie

 

[historian]

Still photos are worthless.* There is no chain of custody unless you had an officer of the law, standing next to you when you snapped the photos and immediately turned your entire camera and card over to the officer, for his safe keeping.* That ain't goin to happen.* But there is a 100% chance that your camera will come up missing.* A location also means nothing.* By the time you get back there with witnesses you will be lucky to find prints.* When you don't, then you just opened the door a lot earlier to your being made into a liar.* If you bring the photo here, you will instantly be made into a liar.* If you post it to the pro-bigfoot chat rooms, then it will be classified as a "bear with mange".* If you send it to a TV station, then it will also be a "bear with mange".* The public cannot deal with Bigfoot, anymore.* They have put too much effort into turning Bigfoot into a myth over the last 40 years, to let you turn that effort into so much smoke.* So you will be inevitably destroyed, one way or another.

 

[Locknar]

Still photos are worthless.* <snip>

So in essence your profile pic (the potentially photoshoped pic at that) that you claim is a "BF" orb", as well as the other photographic/video evicence you claim to have, is worthless by your own admission.

 

[madurobob]

As much fun as all that stuff has always been, and as much as I dislike seeing that bit of wonder taken away from the world, the ice cold reality is that the lack of evidence for all of these things, from UFOs, to Big Foot and Yeti, to Nessie and other lake monsters, to Mongolian Sandworms and Underdwellers is proof that they simply don't exist.

<my bolding>
Agreed. They were done in by global warming

What is interesting to me is the lengths to which people will go to cling to their fairy tales in the face of the mounting case for fraud & fakery and the lack of new and credible evidence. My favorite from this forum is the straight-faced statement that bigfoot is invisible. That is something my 5 year old would have invented when confronted with his assertion that someone else ate the cookies from the jar.

As to the OP: you can copy the files from the memory stick and play around with them as much as you want on your computer - but leave the original image files intact on the stick and also have unaltered copies on your HD. The files themselves contain header and footer data to identify them as original.

But photos alone, as already noted, will never be believable evidence. Your photos could, however, be one of several pieces of credible evidence that when combined are difficult to refute. Take notes of everything you saw, heard and felt. Look for footprints, photograph them, then note the coordinates so you can return and make casts. Look for hair, scat, anything else that could be used for DNA testing.

Oh, and be sure to have bear spray. Bears don't like being hunted and will sometimes hunt back.

 

[historian]

So in essence your profile pic (the potentially photoshoped pic at that) that you claim is a "BF" orb", as well as the other photographic/video evicence you claim to have, is worthless by your own admission.

My still photo is CAPTURED from a live video with dozens of moving orbs that have been photographed both very close and very far. It would be quite impossible to fake that kind of video, since the orbs are often opaque or translucent that varies as they move. I could capture any orb off of that video, and they all would have a high level of credibility, because of the supporting evidence. Ordinarily, a still photo has no supporting evidence, like a second camera photographing the same object from a different direction and distance. My photo is still a BIGFOOT IN SPIRIT/ORB PHASE.
And there is also an apparent PORTAL in my video. PORTALS, have only been photographed in HUNT FOR THE SKINWALKER, that I am aware of.

 

[Earthborn]

Choose a tree that is in the original bigfoot photo. Make an identifiable mark on it, and take a photo similar to the original, in which the mark is visible. Perhaps with the GPS in the foregound. Light and weather patterns will show that both photos very likely have been made shortly after eachother, and can be checked against astronomical and meteorological data. Anyone who doubts that you were at the location you claimed you were can use your GPS data to find the spot and the mark on the tree proves you were there.

 

[aggle-rithm]

Still photos are worthless.* There is no chain of custody unless you had an officer of the law, standing next to you when you snapped the photos and immediately turned your entire camera and card over to the officer, for his safe keeping.* That ain't goin to happen.* But there is a 100% chance that your camera will come up missing.* A location also means nothing.* By the time you get back there with witnesses you will be lucky to find prints.* When you don't, then you just opened the door a lot earlier to your being made into a liar.* If you bring the photo here, you will instantly be made into a liar.* If you post it to the pro-bigfoot chat rooms, then it will be classified as a "bear with mange".* If you send it to a TV station, then it will also be a "bear with mange".* The public cannot deal with Bigfoot, anymore.* They have put too much effort into turning Bigfoot into a myth over the last 40 years, to let you turn that effort into so much smoke.* So you will be inevitably destroyed, one way or another.

I agree that an actual Bigfoot carcass would be much better evidence. Shouldn't be too hard to find, if they exist.

Failing that, a single Bigfoot hair with DNA. Scientists could easily verify that it's an unknown species of primate. However, it would be more difficult to determine its physical characteristics to the extent that we could say how big its feet were.

There should be Bigfoot hairs all over the place. Or do they conveniently biodegrade?

 

[aggle-rithm]

My still photo is CAPTURED from a live video with dozens of moving orbs that have been photographed both very close and very far. It would be quite impossible to fake that kind of video, since the orbs are often opaque or translucent that varies as they move. I could capture any orb off of that video, and they all would have a high level of credibility, because of the supporting evidence. Ordinarily, a still photo has no supporting evidence, like a second camera photographing the same object from a different direction and distance. My photo is still a BIGFOOT IN SPIRIT/ORB PHASE.
And there is also an apparent PORTAL in my video. PORTALS, have only been photographed in HUNT FOR THE SKINWALKER, that I am aware of.

Really?

 

[historian]

I agree that an actual Bigfoot carcass would be much better evidence. Shouldn't be too hard to find, if they exist.

Failing that, a single Bigfoot hair with DNA. Scientists could easily verify that it's an unknown species of primate. However, it would be more difficult to determine its physical characteristics to the extent that we could say how big its feet were.

There should be Bigfoot hairs all over the place. Or do they conveniently biodegrade?

Sure bigfoot hairs have been found.
Sure the hairs have been analyzed for DNA.
Sure they have come back as "similar to man but diet contained no chemicals from prepared foods, but it's diet did consist of deer meat and plant roots. Also the hair contained no cut ends. Also the hair did not match any known primate.

Go to talkshoe - bigfoot, and bring up the William Draginis interview.

 

[Tricky]

My still photo is CAPTURED from a live video with dozens of moving orbs that have been photographed both very close and very far. It would be quite impossible to fake that kind of video, since the orbs are often opaque or translucent that varies as they move. I could capture any orb off of that video, and they all would have a high level of credibility, because of the supporting evidence. Ordinarily, a still photo has no supporting evidence, like a second camera photographing the same object from a different direction and distance. My photo is still a BIGFOOT IN SPIRIT/ORB PHASE.
And there is also an apparent PORTAL in my video. PORTALS, have only been photographed in HUNT FOR THE SKINWALKER, that I am aware of.

Pah! Photos! That's nothing. I have evidence that is not only photos, BUT INTERVIEWS. Turns out he's looking for a girl friend.