Are you sure this is what you meant to say?
You seem to be saying psychic reality is true!
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Supernatural can never be "proved" to exist (Split from Hypothetical Million...)
- Thread starter maatorc
- Start date
Are you sure this is what you meant to say?
You seem to be saying psychic reality is true!
jimtron
Illuminator
Maatorc:
Any thoughts on my last post?
Another thought: it's not James Randi, or JREF, or other skeptics here that are making paranormal claims. There are a great many people who are not only claiming paranormal ability, but charging money for it (practitioners of Homeopathy, Reiki, dowsers, psychics, etc.). The MDC is offering a million bucks to simply demonstrate one of these claims under conditions where cheating, etc. can be ruled out.
Again, if a RV test doesn't prove that remote viewing is real, what does? I think you're making the case that there is no evidence that remote viewing is real, no?
Any thoughts on my last post?
Another thought: it's not James Randi, or JREF, or other skeptics here that are making paranormal claims. There are a great many people who are not only claiming paranormal ability, but charging money for it (practitioners of Homeopathy, Reiki, dowsers, psychics, etc.). The MDC is offering a million bucks to simply demonstrate one of these claims under conditions where cheating, etc. can be ruled out.
Again, if a RV test doesn't prove that remote viewing is real, what does? I think you're making the case that there is no evidence that remote viewing is real, no?
The only possible evidence is the personal participatory experience of a remote viewing or psychic projection event.
It may be possible for protocols to result in the inference, at one or more removes from the actual process itself, of such an event being true.
jimtron
Illuminator
Could you please talk about the specifics of this? Let's stick with RV. Exactly what kind of participatory experience would show evidence that RV is real? And why couldn't the JREF test a participatory experience of RV'ing?
ETA:
Is it not possible to prove RV? If so, then how do you know such a talent exists?
If it is possible to prove RV, how so?
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1... If someone projected to you and you realized it the experience is true for you, but you cannot prove it to another who did not participate in it.
2... It could at best infer the event because it would rely on the report of whoever took part in it.
3... It is provable only to those taking part, but not to others, and it is possible to know such events occur only in the manner explained.
4... Not under the MDC protocols, but it may be reasonably inferred second hand by a convincing demonstration.
Ron_Tomkins
Satan's Helper
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Sooooo
the popularity of the "Are the real psychics hidden from us" thread eventually died and as fate would have it, you've found a new thread to inject your semantic poison and attempt to gain attention, huh Maatorc?
the popularity of the "Are the real psychics hidden from us" thread eventually died and as fate would have it, you've found a new thread to inject your semantic poison and attempt to gain attention, huh Maatorc?
I am saying that psychics perform daily in front of large or small audiences, and their lack of interest in a controlled test implies that psychic reality is based on fraud.
It has been pointed out to you over and over - and I infer that you are technically quite capable of comprehending - that the MDC works in a different way:
1. An applicant makes a claim.
2. The applicant proposes a test protocol for said claim.
3. The test protocol is mutually agreed upon.
4. The test is done.
5. So far: No applicant did a successful demonstration.
The MDC does not disprove - or collect "'evidence' whatsoever for the reductionist orthodox scientism basis of skeptic anti-psychism". (This argument - or a relative - seems to be brought up almost exclusively by opponents of the MDC.)
The MDC challenges people to prove their claims.
Let's repeat that one:
The MDC challenges people to prove their claims.
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jimtron
Illuminator
So people with RV abilities can't see into distant locations? Are you saying RV is sending messages to people?
I respect your right to this opinion.
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Gr8wight
red-shirted crewman
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- Jul 5, 2004
- Messages
- 1,661
To date, there is nothing else.
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The point I make is that this reductionist view is not general or official science in the sense of exact knowledge.
Anyone who is not reductionist, probably the vast majority of educated people, who cannot all be called delusional, will disagree with the rationale of the MDC without necessarily being against the JREF ideal of informed inquiry.
1. Make a "paranormal" claim.
2. Prove said claim in a controlled test. Repeat it once.
3. If successful, win a million dollars.
It's that simple.
jimtron
Illuminator
Maatrorc:
Would you please respond to my post #79?
There are people who claim to have remote viewing abilities. They claim to be able to see things far away, without cameras or telescopes. I say, great, let's test this. You say, no, only someone who receives a message from an RV practitioner can experience this (actually, this could be tested*). I say, no, RV proponents say they can view remote locations, so why can't they view a number in another room?
I'm sure I'll get an intelligent, concise, coherent response, so I'm going to start holding my breath right now...
* someone picks a card, or randomly chooses a number. Tells it to RV guy. RV guy transmits it into the mind of another person. This person says what number or card was transmitted.
Would you please respond to my post #79?
There are people who claim to have remote viewing abilities. They claim to be able to see things far away, without cameras or telescopes. I say, great, let's test this. You say, no, only someone who receives a message from an RV practitioner can experience this (actually, this could be tested*). I say, no, RV proponents say they can view remote locations, so why can't they view a number in another room?
I'm sure I'll get an intelligent, concise, coherent response, so I'm going to start holding my breath right now...
* someone picks a card, or randomly chooses a number. Tells it to RV guy. RV guy transmits it into the mind of another person. This person says what number or card was transmitted.
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It is indeed simple: As follows. -
Reductionist scientism is indistinguishable from a fundamentalist religious cult.
It does not build churches but is nonetheless a faith.
It's ritual is skepticism.
Meetings ironically resemble religious revival gatherings.
The faithful are exhorted to combat anything that smacks of non-reductionism.
It is, also ironically, indistinguishable from another well known cult which violently attacks others, and is violently attacked by skeptics on many threads.
Only by stepping outside this cult mind-set is it possible to objectively observe this failure to see that although the material investigations of true science are absolutely correct they only penetrate the physical and material level of an infinite reality: Something well understood at the highest levels of true science.
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Wow, you are sounding desperate. It still does not negate the necessity to provide evidence. I note the steps for the MDC again, for your convenience:
1. Make a "paranormal" claim.
2. Prove said claim in a controlled test. Repeat it once.
3. If successful, win a million dollars.
It is that simple.
[/Chandler Bing]
Gr8wight
red-shirted crewman
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If someone projected what to me? What, exactly, would be projected to me by this alleged "psychic projector" that would lead me to believe his or her claim? How would I know that I had received the specific projection said "projector" had projected?
Please, maatorc, explain.