Sumo Wrestling is Rotten to the Core

[qayak]

It isn't just sumo. Check out the life expectancy of NFL players.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/10/3/122610.shtml

. . . the average life expectancy for all pro football players, including all positions and backgrounds, is 55 years. Several insurance carriers say it is 51 years.

A body can only take so much beating on before it says, "F*** you!" and dies. I am sure there are many contributing factors but I suspect that in the end, money is the root cause.

I don't think it is unreasonable that NFL players have a reduced lifespan considering the amount of money they are paid to play the game. Drop the wages down to the level of an average worker and health would become very important to them.

 

[qayak]

When the 700lb guy doesn't win start thinking "fix"

Not likely. Size matters only when skill is equal. Good skills beat size as the Mongolian fighters have been demonstrating for several years.

 

[LordoftheLeftHand]

Collusion. One opponent agrees (secretly) to lose the match, to the other.

Kinda like what sometimes happens in boxing.

Statistical studies have shown this does go on in Sumo wrestling. A good summary of that was written up in a chapter in the book Freakonomics.

Yeah I used to watch it until I found out it was fixed (or at least some of it is fixed). Kind of took the fun out of it for me.

LLH

 

[suomynonA]

Yeah I used to watch it until I found out it was fixed (or at least some of it is fixed). Kind of took the fun out of it for me.

LLH

Size matters. It matters a lot. Why do you think just about every combat sport has weight divisions? Even for those that don't have weight divisions, or have an open weight division, they are almost always dominated by the larger fighters.

There are exceptions of course. Fedor Emelianenko comes to mind as a guy who has managed to beat people that are significantly larger than himself.

 

[LordoftheLeftHand]

Size matters. It matters a lot. Why do you think just about every combat sport has weight divisions? Even for those that don't have weight divisions, or have an open weight division, they are almost always dominated by the larger fighters.

There are exceptions of course. Fedor Emelianenko comes to mind as a guy who has managed to beat people that are significantly larger than himself.

I course size matters, I don't think anyone is claiming anything different. That doesn't change the fact that at least on some level sumo wrestling is fixed.

LLH

 

[Wowbagger]

And, if all that weren't enough: It turns out some Sumo wrestlers are... Robots!!!

http://mindstorms.lego.com/specialevent/default.aspx
(Mindstorms NXT Sumo Competition)

 

[WildCat]

Why must they compete in that garb?

Tradition, but the purpose it originally served was to show your opponent you were not hiding any weapons.

 

[qayak]

And, if all that weren't enough: It turns out some Sumo wrestlers are... Robots!!!

Actually, "Roboto" was a very popular wrestler a few years ago. He only won about 50% of his matches but his antics made him one of the highest paid of the wrestlers. Lots of showmanship.

 

[suomynonA]

LordoftheLeftHand,

I meant to quote qayak on his comment about skill versus size. I wasn't paying enough attention when I made that post.

 

[qayak]

LordoftheLeftHand,

I meant to quote qayak on his comment about skill versus size. I wasn't paying enough attention when I made that post.

Even if it was aimed at me, you are still wrong.

The weight divisions are in place because everyone is a skilled and experienced fighter. Put a beginner heavyweight boxer in against an experienced welterweight and the beginner is going to get beat.

Royce Gracie beats Akebono in Pride. Gracie, 180 lbs., Akebono, 500+ lbs. Gracie had tons of technical skills, Akebono had a lot of weight.

 

[suomynonA]

I'm not saying size beats skill every time. I'm saying it's an incredibly important factor, along with skill, strength, and speed. You can't just say someone is more skilled, so obviously they're going to win their fight.

Hughes beat Royce after all. Royce is easily the more experienced and more skilled on the ground, but Hughes beat him with shear strength. I don't even consider there fight a fight, but more of beating. Or look at Bob Sapp. He has a good MMA record, but I doubt you'll find anyone who'll claim he won those fights through technical skill. Not all people who fight in the same division are equal.

And like before, I'll say there are people that can consistently defeat larger opponents through skill, like Fedor or Randy Couture. Probably the most extreme example that I can think of is Kyuzo Mifune, who was tiny by any standard but went undefeated during his Judo career during the days when there were no weight divisions.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

I read the chapter he's refering to. Because of the rules of how ranking is established, some matches can impact one contestant's standing but not the other's. Players for whom it doesn't matter can let the opponent win, in exchange for the opponent doing likewise in the future. So they can cheat by conspiring to throw matches. Quite easy to do, actually, and much harder to prove in any individual case than other forms of cheating. But if you look at the agregate statistics of such matches, and compare that to outcomes of matches which matter for both contestants, it becomes clear that matches are being thrown at a pretty large rate.

How did they adjust for the incentive factor? Surely it is not unreasonable to expect greater effort from the one who needs to win than from the one who has nothing at stake.

In other words would you not expect contests where the incentives are significantly mismatched to result in statistically different outcomes to those where the incentives are matched?