Summer homework? Sue the school.

[Checkmite]

Joshua, I didn't read the story that way...did he choose to take an honors summer class and then didn't want to do ANY homework?

Or was this a class from the regular school year that wasted student's time not covering the material properly, and expected them to get themselves ready for fall on their own time over the summer?

Neither. I believe the case is actually that when he elected to take next year's honors class, that class gave him the homework for summer - "study these and have this work done by the time we meet in fall". It has nothing to do with any class not covering material "properly". That's simply the way this class is done.

Coincidentally, by 11th and 12th grade, in most schools honors classes typically are good for college credit. In some cases, honors students can also register for college courses during the summer. Of course, they don't have to register for the honors courses if they don't want to.

That's where this stands. This kid 1) chose an honors course that he didn't have to choose, 2) knew that taking the honors course meant doing homework in the summer, 3) did the homework in the summer and subsequently got into the honors course. He's complaining about it now, after it's all said and done...because he probably wants to be in another honors course next year, and doesn't want to do any summer homework. Of course, he wouldn't have to do any summer homework anyway if he didn't choose the honors course, and took a regular course instead. But he doesn't want to do that.

 

[Tmy]

Summer homework? Isnt that kinda pointless???? Whos there to correct it? The kid has to teach himslef. Sounds more like forced home schooling.

 

[username]

That's where this stands. This kid 1) chose an honors course that he didn't have to choose, 2) knew that taking the honors course meant doing homework in the summer, 3) did the homework in the summer and subsequently got into the honors course. He's complaining about it now, after it's all said and done...because he probably wants to be in another honors course next year, and doesn't want to do any summer homework. Of course, he wouldn't have to do any summer homework anyway if he didn't choose the honors course, and took a regular course instead. But he doesn't want to do that.

Why should he have to do that is the question though. The school term runs from a start date to and end date. Why does any school work need to be done when school is not in session and both teachers and students are on vacation?

We can say that summer homework is a requirement of an honors class, but that still leaves the question of "Why is this a requirement?" and "Should this be a requirement?"

Personally I would think requiring summer homework would discourage otherwise qualified students from taking those classes.

The point has been raised, why can't the work be done during the regular school session?

What motivated the administration of this school to implement such a policy?

As I stated above I don't know that a law suit is the best way to approach this issue, but I really don't like the idea of requiring any school work to be done when the school is taking a vacation from work.

 

[Checkmite]

Why should he have to do that is the question though. The school term runs from a start date to and end date. Why does any school work need to be done when school is not in session and both teachers and students are on vacation?

I know there are some extracirriculars, like sports or band, that require attendance at summer practices, etc, as well. Of course, you don't have to be in sports or band if you don't want to be. It's the student's choice.

The thing is, the honors courses are not regular schooling. Like sports and band, they're something extra that the school provides for students who are both able and willing to do more than other students do. Now, if you're unwilling, you don't suffer for not choosing to do the extra stuff. The school does not penalize students that don't participate in sports or band, and they don't penalize students who choose normal courses instead of honors courses. But if you don't want to go to summer practices or games, or you don't want to do the summer homework, then don't participate in those activities. You can't play baseball for the school team if you don't go to the summer practices. And you can't get an honors credit - which is supposed to be more advanced than the rest of the classes in the subject - if you don't do any more work than all the regular kids do.

 

[username]

I know there are some extracirriculars, like sports or band, that require attendance at summer practices, etc, as well. Of course, you don't have to be in sports or band if you don't want to be. It's the student's choice.

I agree, but the extracurriculars are extra to the curriculum, they aren't part of the curiculum.

The thing is, the honors courses are not regular schooling.

This is where I think we disagree. I agree that band and sports are not 'regular schooling', but I disagree when it comes to AP classes. I consider them to be regular schooling for those who are not academically challenged by regular courses.

<snipped some of the preceding post>

And you can't get an honors credit - which is supposed to be more advanced than the rest of the classes in the subject - if you don't do any more work than all the regular kids do.

I think the question still needing to be answered is why can't the AP students do more work (or just more advanced work) during the school year? Why should giving up some of one's vacation be a requirement for those wishing to take more difficult classes during the school year? I would have no problem with assignments being given on an extra credit basis, but to require them doesn't sit well with me.

As I stated in my first post, summer assignments are already banned in Wisconsin and Wisconsin ranks well in terms of education quality-example, but the ban isn't a state level ban so some school districts do stuff like this. It seems completely unnecessary and I wonder what motivates the districts/schools that do this.

Editted to add: My kids do or do not go to summer school at the discretion of myself and their mother. If we feel our child has done well during the school year and is adequately prepared for the next year the summer is a vacation. If we feel more work is necessary then it is off to summer school.

I think that choice should rest with the parent, not the school. Vacations are called vacations for a reason. The length of the academic year is set by the state, not the school district.

I think this case may be quite sound as the local district is arguably going beyond their authority granted them by the state.

 

[crimresearch]

Neither. I believe the case is actually that when he elected to take next year's honors class, that class gave him the homework for summer - "study these and have this work done by the time we meet in fall". It has nothing to do with any class not covering material "properly". That's simply the way this class is done.

Coincidentally, by 11th and 12th grade, in most schools honors classes typically are good for college credit. In some cases, honors students can also register for college courses during the summer. Of course, they don't have to register for the honors courses if they don't want to.

That's where this stands. This kid 1) chose an honors course that he didn't have to choose, 2) knew that taking the honors course meant doing homework in the summer, 3) did the homework in the summer and subsequently got into the honors course. He's complaining about it now, after it's all said and done...because he probably wants to be in another honors course next year, and doesn't want to do any summer homework. Of course, he wouldn't have to do any summer homework anyway if he didn't choose the honors course, and took a regular course instead. But he doesn't want to do that.

OK, then it appears that you and I are using the terms 'honors' and 'homework' in different manners.

I realize that it may vary by district, but I tend to think of honors, as honors level courses...i.e. more difficult material than the average student gets...but nothing that couldn't be covered during the regular term...one student takes 10th grade math, another student takes 10th grade honors level math, because they can already do the regular 10th grade math.

The sort of pre-applied for elective courses you describe, I am used to hearing called IB, or AP courses.

For example:

"Honors courses are offered to meet the needs of academically talented students. Special instructions and motivation are provided for students whose potential is above the general school population. More challenging academic work is given to students in the subjects areas of English, Fine Arts, History, Mathematics, Modern Language, Science, and others.
...The Advanced Placement Program offers able and ambitious students an opportunity to study one or more college-level courses and receive high school credit
....the well-recognized International Baccalaureate (IB) program that offers a core curriculum of six subject areas and other requirements that lead to the prestigious International Baccalaureate Diploma. Students who do not want to pursue the complete diploma may sign up for the individual classes and take exams for certificates. Both the IB Diploma and the IB Certificates can earn college level credit."

http://www.nusd.k12.az.us/nhs/ap.ib.htm


Homework to me is material assigned after the coursework covers it, and I would think that the term 'prep work' would more accurately cover what you are talking about...
And, I highly doubt that any court would entertain a lawsuit to stop elective classes from requiring prepwork for admission.

So, I'll wait for more info, before revising my original suspicion that the school did something else with the students time during the school year, and tried to slough it off on the students 'free' summer time..

 

[username]

And, I highly doubt that any court would entertain a lawsuit to stop elective classes from requiring prepwork for admission.

This isn't simply prep work. It was school administered work during the summer vacation. The student had to complete 3 papers during the summer, one being a 16 page calculus paper and they had to be turned in at set times during the summer vacation.

It is a defacto lengthening of the school year beyond the 180 days specified in Wisconsin law.

The state sets the educational requirements, not local schools. For this reason I think the case has merit.

 

[Rob Lister]

To Username...

I respectfully disagree with you on almost every point you made. And that's okay. I just don't think three months of vacation is either necessary or healthy. The summer work my oldest has completed did not require all that much time or effort. I'll guesstimate about two weeks worth of work (80 or so hours).

To others...

I don't know how honors classes work in other schools or districts but, with the exception of PhsEd and possibly one or two other courses, my son has had the same set of teachers for the last three years. So they know what work was assigned and how to grade it. BTW, I asked my son what ever became of him not doing his summer coursework two years back and he only replied that it wasn't 'pretty' and that he had to catch it up while enjoying the regular courseload as well.

To Grammatron

It ain't the money, it's the chicks. Only the cutest babes waitress at Fuddruckers. Surely that's worth a slight $4/hr reduction in pay...no? Try to forget he'll be in the back flipping burgers and rarely if ever see them anyway.

 

[username]

To Username...

I respectfully disagree with you on almost every point you made. And that's okay. I just don't think three months of vacation is either necessary or healthy. The summer work my oldest has completed did not require all that much time or effort. I'll guesstimate about two weeks worth of work (80 or so hours).

Well it is fine that you don't think the 3 months vacation is necessary or healthy, but it seems beside the point. There has been some debate in Wisconsin and indeed nationwide over switching to a full year of school or extending the academic season by some amount of time. All of this is fine within the context of it's own debate, but irrelevant to this discussion.

At issue here is that Wisconsin state law mandates a 180 day school year and a particular school is mandating more days than that in order to take an AP class.

I suspect you would argue that the mandated 180 day school year should be longer. That's fine.

As long as we are dealing with the current law though, a defacto extension by an individual school is something the courts will have to rule on.

As previously noted, many districts in the state already have banned this practice of assigning summer work and yet Wisconsin ranks high in terms of nationwide academic achievment.

Given that other districts have banned the practice, it isn't popular among students and many parents and yet a handful of schools continue it seems a legal showdown is necessary in the absence of the legislature addressing the matter directly.

 

[crimresearch]

This isn't simply prep work. It was school administered work during the summer vacation. The student had to complete 3 papers during the summer, one being a 16 page calculus paper and they had to be turned in at set times during the summer vacation.

It is a defacto lengthening of the school year beyond the 180 days specified in Wisconsin law.

The state sets the educational requirements, not local schools. For this reason I think the case has merit.

That's what I'm saying...I think this *was* homework, assigned after the regular school year was legally over, and I think this kid might have a case.

I could be wrong, but I think what Joshuah was describing doesn't apply here.
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[Meadmaker]

Given that other districts have banned the practice, it isn't popular among students and many parents and yet a handful of schools continue it seems a legal showdown is necessary in the absence of the legislature addressing the matter directly.

What about the school board addressing it? And if you don't like the decsion of the school board, how about campaigning against a the school board and trying to elect a new one. And if you live in Milwaukee, you can go to a private school using taxpayer money.

 

[username]

What about the school board addressing it? And if you don't like the decsion of the school board, how about campaigning against a the school board and trying to elect a new one. And if you live in Milwaukee, you can go to a private school using taxpayer money.

The school board has addressed it as I understand it. They decided to defer to the local school.

The problem with this, at least potentially, is that the state has set the length of the academic year. Can a local school or even school board alter this length without legislative approval? Does the summer homework constitute a defacto lengthening of the school year?

 

[pgwenthold]

It is a defacto lengthening of the school year beyond the 180 days specified in Wisconsin law.

But by this argument, they couldn't be given homework that had to be done on a weekend, either.

 

[Meadmaker]

But by this argument, they couldn't be given homework that had to be done on a weekend, either.

Excellent point.

My objection is that the kid doesn't like the policy, so he and dad decide to find a judge to see if they can change the law. The school has created a particular program that includes summer study. No one is forced to attend. No one is deprived of anything by participating, or not participating. I don't object to using the courts to try and protect real, fundamental, rights, but when everything goes to court, it really trivializes the concept of "rights".

 

[username]

But by this argument, they couldn't be given homework that had to be done on a weekend, either.

I think the difference is that the weekend is during the academic year, not inbetween academic years.

Requiring a student to be famililar with certain material as a condition of eligibility is fine, but that is usually accomplished by summer school or an exam that must be passed before admission is granted. This is requiring students to complete school course work outside of the state's academic year.

For me that is the sticking point. The summer break is inbetween academic years. There is no school in session, the teachers are not working.

 

[crimresearch]

Excellent point.

My objection is that the kid doesn't like the policy, so he and dad decide to find a judge to see if they can change the law. The school has created a particular program that includes summer study. No one is forced to attend. No one is deprived of anything by participating, or not participating. I don't object to using the courts to try and protect real, fundamental, rights, but when everything goes to court, it really trivializes the concept of "rights".

I still suspect that this sort of thing will end up with honors programs where the bulk of participants are more privileged kids who have the spare time and the resources to churn out work over the summer, instead of working at jobs...

And to me that is depriving people of an equal educational opportunity on the basis of SES.

The trend for schools to take away classroom time in the name of prepping for scores on standardized tests (to avoid becoming one of Bush's 'failing schools'), is thoroughly regretable, and I don't doubt for a moment that if school boards could make children do ALL of their learning on their own time, in order to fill up the alloted school year with feel-good bandaid political programs, they would do it.

 

[Checkmite]

Well, what about remedial "summer school" by itself? It's usually offered by the host school district, it's worth school credit (often it keeps a student from failing a next year's course), and it takes place outside the normal academic year. What's the difference?

 

[username]

Well, what about remedial "summer school" by itself? It's usually offered by the host school district, it's worth school credit (often it keeps a student from failing a next year's course), and it takes place outside the normal academic year. What's the difference?

While I could be wrong, I believe summer school is covered by legislation at the state level.

In my view assigning homework to students to complete and hand in at various times throughout the summer is just plain evil. I think there may be a valid question of legality.

As such I will watch the development with interest, but I think I have argued the legalities of why it is wrong further than I really can, I am not a lawyer.

 

[pgwenthold]

I think the difference is that the weekend is during the academic year, not inbetween academic years.

The original objection was that requiring homework during the summer meant the student went over the 180 days of instruction dictated by law. However, those 180 days do not include weekends. Thus, it doesn't matter if it is during the year or not, assigning homework on weekends would mean the students have more than 180 days of instruction.

 

[pgwenthold]

For me that is the sticking point. The summer break is inbetween academic years. There is no school in session, the teachers are not working.

Also, I don't think you want to start basing student policy on when teachers work. That would be very unfair to students.