Subjective Experience

[AkuManiMani]

Solipsism.

The problem with solipsism is that there can be only one solipsist who is right

 

[westprog]

OK - I had thought you were interested in a meaningful discussion. What do you intend doing with the poll - using it as a random number generator?

I already find the results interesting. I assume that the people who've been voting think they have enough information to make a meaningful choice.

Also, if you look very, very closely you'll find that there is an option for anyone who thinks that the term is ill-defined. If everyone agrees with you, they can select that.

 

[westprog]

Why is there no option for "is scientifically accessible"?

I confess that I didn't even consider the possibility, but I probably should.

 

[westprog]

(ETA: Is "subjective experience" redundant? Is there such a thing as objective experience?)

Possibly not, but that tends to be the subject of arguments. There have been claims that, for example, it's possible to "fool" a device. I don't know whether there are people who believe in objective experience, so I've made a possibly redundant clarification.

 

[westprog]

I confess that I didn't even consider the possibility, but I probably should.

And I suggest that anyone who thinks that subjective experience is scientifically accessible select the will be scientifically accessible option. I doubt whether that will distort things that much.

 

[maddog]

On Planet X, subjective experience is shown as an in-flight movie.

 

[paximperium]

The problem with solipsism is that there can be only one solipsist who is right

So says my P-zombie.

 

[AkuManiMani]

So says my P-zombie.

I'll have you know, I am the only true solipsist. All of you pretenders are just my subconscious telling me I'm right

 

[Gr8wight]

I cannot vote in your poll because I do not understand what you mean by "scientifically accessible."

A huge part of the problems we face in our world stem from the fact that what people believe to be obvious, or self evident to themselves, they believe must also be obvious and self evident to everyone else. That certainly is the case in most of the threads in the MDC forum. You are going to have to define the term scientifically accessible very specifically for me.

 

[Xulld]

I already find the results interesting. I assume that the people who've been voting think they have enough information to make a meaningful choice.

Also, if you look very, very closely you'll find that there is an option for anyone who thinks that the term is ill-defined. If everyone agrees with you, they can select that.

Well don't you know, everyone is a expert on consciousness.

 

[westprog]

I cannot vote in your poll because I do not understand what you mean by "scientifically accessible."

A huge part of the problems we face in our world stem from the fact that what people believe to be obvious, or self evident to themselves, they believe must also be obvious and self evident to everyone else. That certainly is the case in most of the threads in the MDC forum. You are going to have to define the term scientifically accessible very specifically for me.

I suggest that you avail of the "undefined" option, which is I suppose another way of saying "your poll is carp". This might be misleading if, unlike Darat, you think that "subjective experience" is well defined, but that "scientifically accessible" is not.

 

[Gr8wight]

I suggest that you avail of the "undefined" option, which is I suppose another way of saying "your poll is carp". This might be misleading if, unlike Darat, you think that "subjective experience" is well defined, but that "scientifically accessible" is not.

If I thought your poll was "carp" I would vote the "pie" option...wait...

You didn't include a "pie" option? I'm sorry, I cannot vote in your internet poll, as it does not conform to the rules of internet poll creation. I am off to Pharyngula to expose your wackiness to the world and have your poll decimated by hoards of angry evilutionists.

 

[Hokulele]

And I suggest that anyone who thinks that subjective experience is scientifically accessible select the will be scientifically accessible option. I doubt whether that will distort things that much.

But that isn't the option I agree with. It is more accurate to not vote, and explain why.

 

[AkuManiMani]

*sigh*

Just explain what ou interpret 'scientifically accessible' to mean and explain why, or why not, subjective experience can be accessed in such a way. Theres nothing to 'trap' you, if thats what you're worried about. An honest answer and an explanation of that answer will do.

 

[Hokulele]

This thread is a poll, and polls are generally taken to demonstrate some kind of consensus about a topic. A flawed poll can and will provide flawed results, which are often taken as support for a position which is simply incorrect (just go ask any CTist for poll data showing that the majority of US citizens believe 9/11 was an inside job). By pointing out the flaws in the poll, the problem can be avoided.

I assume this poll is the result of a dispute happening elsewhere, and I have no idea who is taking what positions, I simply do not want my opinion to be used in an improper way. It has absolutely nothing to do with any "traps".

With all that said, I interpret "scientifically accessible" to mean that hypotheses can be made and tested about various aspects of the issue. I do believe that hypotheses can be made, tested, and falsified with regards to subjective experiences, hence my desire for an option of "is scientifically accessible".

Happy now?

 

[AkuManiMani]

I assume this poll is the result of a dispute happening elsewhere, and I have no idea who is taking what positions, I simply do not want my opinion to be used in an improper way. It has absolutely nothing to do with any "traps".

Dunn see how your input can be co-opted if you qualify your statements but I suppose I can understand your concern.

With all that said, I interpret "scientifically accessible" to mean that hypotheses can be made and tested about various aspects of the issue. I do believe that hypotheses can be made, tested, and falsified with regards to subjective experiences, hence my desire for an option of "is scientifically accessible".

Happy now?

See. Wasn't so bad

 

[Brent.Allsop]

Scientific Consensus says it will be.

There is a growing group of experts working on developing, in a wiki way, concise descriptions of the most well accepted theories of consciousness at canonizer.com. And they are seeking to rigorously measure how much scientific consensus there is for each going forward as ever more scientific data comes in. (see the 'algorithm information' link on the side bar for more info on how scientific consensus is measured.)

Experts like Steven Lehar, John Smythies, Jonathan Edwards and more are already contributing to topics including ones on the best theories of mind and consciousness. So far, as ever more experts contribute to this survey, this representational and real camp is extending it's lead in the amount of consensus it has compared to all other theories.

And this scientific consensus theory predicts subjective experience will be demonstrable and very open to science, and that this scientific discovery, predicted by this theory, will be the greatest scientific discovery of all time.

Brent Allsop

 

[AkuManiMani]

Interesting page, Brent. I'll definitely have to spend some more time skimming thru it

 

[Soapy Sam]

You mean this page? http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/88

 

[Brent.Allsop]

Thanks AkuManiMani.

And thanks soapy sam for providing the actual link to the topic on the best theories. I haven't yet earned the right to post links in my posts.