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Stuntman Shooting

The Norseman said:
Hammer-click cocking noises on striker-fired pistols! Ugh!
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Or multiple cycles of a pump-action before firing has taken place. Guy pumps the shotgun for the dramatic effect of the sound. Later guy pumps again to get that sound, which should make an unspent shotgun shell fly out, but doesn't.

Hell, just how loud firearms are in movies from simply being moved. There is no way you'll find me using a firearm that makes a loud metal rattle simply by being brought to aim unless I'm absolutely desperate (and likely bluffing). What on earth do people think a 92 is made from to sound like a wrench bag hitting a garage floor? Best case a gun like that has a very loose mag with something rattling around in the well, worse case the slide is going to explode when fired, explode back at your face by the way (that entire 'equal and opposite' thing's a bitch).

Which is why someone who knows how guns behave and are supposed to behave is needed on set. People who think they might know enough about firearms to be fairly safe might be on the wrong side of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and someone ends up dead. No expert on set for this one? Unthinkably negligent.
 
CORed said:
Or my favorite, squealing tires in a car chase scene on a dirt road.
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Opps! ... you haven't seen much time with muscle cars on dirt roads have you?

Tires will DEFINITELY sequeel on dusty dirt roads ... evidence by my personal experience :) and many thousands of miles of driving on dirt road in 1960's muscle cars :)
 
CORed said:
Or my favorite, squealing tires in a car chase scene on a dirt road.
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I've always been entertained by the times an acoustic guitar is being depicted, and the sound it makes obviously comes from an electric.

One episode of Andy Griffith with a musician passing through town is maybe the best (as in most overt) example of this, although it happened a lot in the 50's, 60's, and 70's.
 
Davo said:
Ok, US I can understand, but OZ usually have pretty strict gun controls.
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For the record, firearms are not banned in Australia. They are not difficult to get if you can demonstrate a requirement for one.

Under Queensland's Weapons Act 1990 (link to pdf), a person would be required to hold a Theatrical Ordinance Supplier's License, which falls under Division 7 of this legislation (pp 125-9).

There's a common misconception that guns are hard to get in Australia. They're not.
 
tyr_13 said:
Or multiple cycles of a pump-action before firing has taken place. Guy pumps the shotgun for the dramatic effect of the sound. Later guy pumps again to get that sound, which should make an unspent shotgun shell fly out, but doesn't.

Hell, just how loud firearms are in movies from simply being moved. There is no way you'll find me using a firearm that makes a loud metal rattle simply by being brought to aim unless I'm absolutely desperate (and likely bluffing). What on earth do people think a 92 is made from to sound like a wrench bag hitting a garage floor? Best case a gun like that has a very loose mag with something rattling around in the well, worse case the slide is going to explode when fired, explode back at your face by the way (that entire 'equal and opposite' thing's a bitch).

Which is why someone who knows how guns behave and are supposed to behave is needed on set. People who think they might know enough about firearms to be fairly safe might be on the wrong side of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and someone ends up dead. No expert on set for this one? Unthinkably negligent.
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Very true.
 
Yeggster said:
Opps! ... you haven't seen much time with muscle cars on dirt roads have you?

Tires will DEFINITELY sequeel on dusty dirt roads ... evidence by my personal experience :) and many thousands of miles of driving on dirt road in 1960's muscle cars :)
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Yeap...been there and done that with my Plymouth Satellite. It"s a real thing...but incredibly rare.

But you are right...you can squeal tire in a dirt road (ya' just got to have a layer of clay underneath!).
 
tyr_13 said:
Or multiple cycles of a pump-action before firing has taken place. Guy pumps the shotgun for the dramatic effect of the sound. Later guy pumps again to get that sound, which should make an unspent shotgun shell fly out, but doesn't.

Hell, just how loud firearms are in movies from simply being moved. There is no way you'll find me using a firearm that makes a loud metal rattle simply by being brought to aim unless I'm absolutely desperate (and likely bluffing). What on earth do people think a 92 is made from to sound like a wrench bag hitting a garage floor? Best case a gun like that has a very loose mag with something rattling around in the well, worse case the slide is going to explode when fired, explode back at your face by the way (that entire 'equal and opposite' thing's a bitch).

Which is why someone who knows how guns behave and are supposed to behave is needed on set. People who think they might know enough about firearms to be fairly safe might be on the wrong side of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and someone ends up dead. No expert on set for this one? Unthinkably negligent.
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But as common as folks.

There are often professional instructors engaged in pre-production to get actors up to speed so they look the part, and that usually involves actual live fire drills with the firearms that will be used in the film.

Often times the gun wranglers on set have a limited amount of authority to enforce safety rules and although the wranglers may be highly experienced as armorers they may have limited experience as Range Safety Officers.

My particular pov is that there should be nationwide standards in the film industry addressing the use of firearms and any type of explosive materials in special effects.

This SAG safety bulletin from '09 is a decent overview:

https://www.sagaftra.org/files/sag/Safety_Bulletins_AMPTP_Part_1_9_3.pdf
 
BStrong said:
My particular pov is that there should be nationwide standards in the film industry addressing the use of firearms and any type of explosive materials in special effects.
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You're talking about Australia, where there are standards. See the legislation I linked to upthread.
 
arthwollipot said:
You're talking about Australia, where there are standards. See the legislation I linked to upthread.
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Several countries do have universal standards, but even then accidents and other unintended consequences can occur.

During the filming of the first movie in the Rambo franchise (First Blood) up in B.C., the Canadian prop house that originally was scheduled to provide firearms for the production withdrew because of a lack of secured storage for the various machine guns and standard type firearms the production required. An American prop house was hired, and the end result was 2 M60 MG's stolen along with a bunch of other firearms.

To the best of my knowledge, none were recovered.

Another issue that isn't just specific to U.S production is that some weapons that film makers want to use are simply not available for film company rental use, so certain productions have used on-site licensees to run off functioning versions of weapons that the crew can not acquire for their purposes. The theory behind the legality of this is that as long as the firearm is destroyed at the end of it's use on set no crime has been committed.

As U.S. law is very clear that post May 19th, 1986 No full auto NFA weapons can be manufactured for anything other than law enforcement or military use, or sales samples for the same, building post-86 guns for movie use is a serious felony waiting to happen.
 
BStrong said:
Several countries do have universal standards, but even then accidents and other unintended consequences can occur.
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Clearly you didn't even read the legislation I posted - otherwise you might have noticed that it was Queensland legislation. Ie. state-level legislation, not federal, and therefore not "universal". Nor did I claim that it was.

However, it is the legal framework for the incident that we are talking about, unlike the rest of your post.
 
arthwollipot said:
For the record, firearms are not banned in Australia. They are not difficult to get if you can demonstrate a requirement for one.

Under Queensland's Weapons Act 1990 (link to pdf), a person would be required to hold a Theatrical Ordinance Supplier's License, which falls under Division 7 of this legislation (pp 125-9).

There's a common misconception that guns are hard to get in Australia. They're not.
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Is there any distinction between the type of guns?

I can see it being hard to get an assault rifle, but a muzzle loading rifle, not so much..
 
dudalb said:
Is there any distinction between the type of guns?

I can see it being hard to get an assault rifle, but a muzzle loading rifle, not so much..
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I'm sure there are, but I can't be bothered looking it up.

Certain categories of firearms are heavily restricted - semiautomatic rifles being one particularly well-known example. But if someone in the film industry needed one, I'm sure there's a way to get one.
 
Another bit of trivia to add: Blanks used for filming are often loaded with MORE powder (or different explosive) than normal rounds, in order to create a more visible muzzle flash. They are frequently more dangerous than normal blanks you might encounter elsewhere (blank firing guns and blank rounds, as well as rounds firing CS gas or 'pepper' spray, are still legal to buy for adults here in Germany despite our otherwise strict gun laws, and you can obtain a concealed carry permit for them with mere paperwork. One of the most popular firearms you can get right now here is a semi-auto blank firing MP40 replica... though no carry permit for that, for obvious reasons.)

ETA: The MP40 is semi-auto only; I erroneously said full-auto, because one store where I saw it did not describe it properly. They also sell a StG 44...
 
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arthwollipot said:
Clearly you didn't even read the legislation I posted - otherwise you might have noticed that it was Queensland legislation. Ie. state-level legislation, not federal, and therefore not "universal". Nor did I claim that it was.

However, it is the legal framework for the incident that we are talking about, unlike the rest of your post.
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I did avoid the use of the acronym "pov" as I didn't want to upset you.
 
Macgyver1968 said:
To add to this...the "gun wrangler" (the guy whose job it is to check these sort of things) was not on set when the scene was filmed, but they decided to go ahead and shoot the scene anyway. Had he been there, it might have been avoided.
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Three things I find weird about these events; no one heard the primer go off, whoever loaded the gun with full power blanks didn't notice one of the dummies had no bullet in the casing, and if they did notice they didn't act on it. Bizarre!
 
qayak said:
Three things I find weird about these events; no one heard the primer go off, whoever loaded the gun with full power blanks didn't notice one of the dummies had no bullet in the casing, and if they did notice they didn't act on it. Bizarre!
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The version I heard about said they heard a pop. This is another reason why it is strange that no one questioned what they were doing.
 
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