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Stubborn Fundy

CapelDodger
gypsey : I recommend The Battle For God by Karen Armstrong

http://www.amazon.com/Battle-God-Kar.../dp/0345391691

for an insight into fundamentalism and its attractions.

The fundamentalism you're describing is, as Armstrong would put it, bad religion. And it's bad science. It's just bad. Aberrant.

Your husband has sunk deeper and deeper into a comfort-zone, which is why you won't shift him. By now his high opinion of himself simply blows away whatever your opinion might be. That's the antithesis of a healthy relationship.

What he's got into isn't religious at all. Religion is about feelings, shared rituals, myths and stories that reinforce communities. Your husband - and his fundie ilk - reduce themselves to legalisms and absolutes. They try to defend myth by logic. Missing the point entirely.

Real religion underpins human societies by reflecting them. It makes allowances. It's not in conflict with science or logic, there's no field they could meet on. Fundie religion isn't religion at all, it's just an alternative science that puts fundies at centre-stage.
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thank you i will see about getting it this week, it sounds like it will at least help me to understand this better
i don't know enough about fundamentalism to make any comments on the rest but it seems to fit a lot of what i see in him now
until he turned fundy i had never dealt with any one who was this way, everyone i knew with one or two exceptions was christian to varying degrees but no fundies so i was kind of thrown by it at first and it still amazes me that people can act this way and think it's normal and right
 
Zep said:
Other than that, I would second the opinions of seeking legal options about going your own way, and kicking him to the curb.
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I strongly third this opinion. At least talk to a lawyer to find out what your options are. Depending on your circumstances, you may be able to have him continue to provide your health insurance if there is a divorce. There are a lot of options available to women that don't require them to stay trapped in a bad marriage. (And this from someone who thinks everyone should try to stay married if they can, but recognizes that sometimes they can't.)
 
gypsey said:
i love this idea, we used to have bonfires at my daughters place every few weeks but haven't been able to lately( because it's so dry) so i could take them with me for the next one, we are always looking for more stuff to burn
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And if he doesn't get the message with that, toss his bible in the next one.
 
gypsey said:
thank you i will see about getting it this week, it sounds like it will at least help me to understand this better
i don't know enough about fundamentalism to make any comments on the rest but it seems to fit a lot of what i see in him now
until he turned fundy i had never dealt with any one who was this way, everyone i knew with one or two exceptions was christian to varying degrees but no fundies so i was kind of thrown by it at first and it still amazes me that people can act this way and think it's normal and right
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gypsey, I really sympathize with you. I'm lucky enough that my hubby and I are both atheists, but one of my grown sons is a fundy. It really breaks my heart to remember that we used to sit around the table talking politics and philosophy and religion, and we used to agree on most of it. Then he began dating a fundy girl when he was about 19 or 20, his first really serious adult relationship. He started going to church and Bible study with her, and soon he was quoting the same nonsense that we had previously made fun of together. He and the girl broke up, but he stayed that way, and now at age 27, he's both religious and right-wing conservative. The only way I can deal with it, quite honestly (since I can't divorce him!), is to not talk about it at all. We have basically just agreed to disagree. Every once in a while, he'll make some remark about some topic (gay marriage is one), and I just grit my teeth and try to ignore it. But seriously and honestly, it breaks my heart. I didn't raise him to be so ignorant. I always hope that someday I'll have the nerve to really talk to him about it, but I know it won't do any good.

So I guess my advice would be, if you're going to stick it out (my real advice is still to talk to a lawyer), to just agree to disagree. There's nothing you can do to fix someone else's warped view of the world if they're that deeply into it. You have to ignore it as best you can and live around it.
 
wolfgirl said:
So I guess my advice would be, if you're going to stick it out (my real advice is still to talk to a lawyer), to just agree to disagree. There's nothing you can do to fix someone else's warped view of the world if they're that deeply into it. You have to ignore it as best you can and live around it.
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Ditto WF, but I'm on the same side as your son and wish God would turn you around to see that scripture is right and everything outside of Christ leads to death! I'm sorry if this seems harsh to you and others here, but it's very true and the day of judgemnet is coming.

One question...If people really knew they were on their way to hell why would they choose to go there? Why wouldn't people want to repent of all their sins and be saved through Christ?
 
kurious_kathy said:
One question...If people really knew they were on their way to hell why would they choose to go there? Why wouldn't people want to repent of all their sins and be saved through Christ?
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Because it's fantasy. The only way to know is through proof. And nobody, not you, not me, not anybody alive on this planet truly knows what happens after death. And I refuse to waste my time praying to a non-existent entity just because he happens to be the popular one to supplicate at this historical point.

Zeus, Odin, Jupiter, Camalus, Bel, Myrrdin, Belobog, An, and countless others have been worshiped in the past as being real. No longer.

As to your God and irrational, unsubstantiated belief, this too shall pass.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Ditto WF, but I'm on the same side as your son and wish God would turn you around to see that scripture is right and everything outside of Christ leads to death! I'm sorry if this seems harsh to you and others here, but it's very true and the day of judgemnet is coming.

One question...If people really knew they were on their way to hell why would they choose to go there? Why wouldn't people want to repent of all their sins and be saved through Christ?
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You can't "know" any such thing. You can only "believe" it. Well, we don't "believe" it, so we don't "choose" to go there, we "choose" not to believe in fairy tales. Thanks for playing.
 
Zep said:
I'm sure there are decent affordable options for insurance and other expenses outside of being married to him.
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This is unfortunately not necessarily true, I have heard of plans costing up to $3000 a month for people with prior medical histories.
 
The religious mind never fails to amaze me.

Jehovah (to whom Kathy seems to be referring ... surely not one of the other deities humans have invented) clearly does not want Gypsey to see that christian scripture (surely not the scripture of any of the other religions humans have invented) is right and everything outside of Christ leads to death, or Jehovah would already have caused Gypsey to see that. So how can Kathy oppose the will of Jehovah by wishing he would do something he clearly does not want to do?
 
gypsey,

I am sorry to hear of your troubles. It's a lonely place to be when you feel you cannot discuss the issues that mean the most to you with the one person who means the most to you. Have you considered discussing your feelings and options with a counselor. It sounds like the last few years have been difficult ones for you. It can really help to have a third party who is dispassionate about the situation give suggestions about what you can do to either change your situation or help you feel better about it. Good luck and please let us know how things go.
 
Beth said:
gypsey,Have you considered discussing your feelings and options with a counselor. It sounds like the last few years have been difficult ones for you. It can really help to have a third party who is dispassionate about the situation give suggestions about what you can do to either change your situation or help you feel better about it.
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Actually, gypsey, this is what I would suggest, too, now that I think about it, before talking to a lawyer. See if there is some way to either go to counseling together, or if that's impossible, get counseling yourself. I would certainly rather see the marriage be saved if that's even possible, if there's some way to make him see what he's doing to you. (Yes, I do change my mind a lot...it's one of the things I'm working on, but I keep changing my mind about how to approach it. :))
 
grayman said:
Because it's fantasy. The only way to know is through proof. And nobody, not you, not me, not anybody alive on this planet truly knows what happens after death. And I refuse to waste my time praying to a non-existent entity just because he happens to be the popular one to supplicate at this historical point.

Zeus, Odin, Jupiter, Camalus, Bel, Myrrdin, Belobog, An, and countless others have been worshiped in the past as being real. No longer.

As to your God and irrational, unsubstantiated belief, this too shall pass.
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GOD GAVE ME ALL THE PROOF I NEED, AND IF HE CAN DO IT FOR ME I'M SURE HE CAN DO IT FOR YOU IF YOU WOULD QUIT BEING SO STUBBORN IN YOUR CHOICE TO NOT BELIEVE.

Heaven and earth will pass away but God's Word NEVER will! All other Gods are false and impersonal, not Jesus. He truly is the only way to the Father.
 
slingblade said:
When all else fails, scream at people.
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Sorry, I know it's a weakness of mine when I want to make a point with people. Yesterday I got loud in the kitchen with the kids when I was sharing some of what the Bible says about not reading horoscopes, going to psychics, messing around with tarot cards or anything pertaining to the occult. I can't help but get loud about it now that I see through God's Word how bad those things are. In the past when I did those things I was clueless to what scripture taught about those things being wrong. Now it's a strong personal conviction I just can't help but get voicedross about.
God help us all know the truth that sets us free!
 
kurious_kathy said:
Sorry, I know it's a weakness of mine when I want to make a point with people. Yesterday I got loud in the kitchen with the kids when I was sharing some of what the Bible says about not reading horoscopes, going to psychics, messing around with tarot cards or anything pertaining to the occult. I can't help but get loud about it now that I see through God's Word how bad those things are. In the past when I did those things I was clueless to what scripture taught about those things being wrong. Now it's a strong personal conviction I just can't help but get voicedross about.
God help us all know the truth that sets us free!
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If it makes you feel any better, most of us don't ascribe to any of that crap, either.

Nothing you have ever said here, KK, has ever compelled anyone to take you seriously. And it's not likely to in future. You're flogging.



 
kurious_kathy said:
Sorry, I know it's a weakness of mine when I want to make a point with people. Yesterday I got loud in the kitchen with the kids when I was sharing some of what the Bible says about not reading horoscopes, going to psychics, messing around with tarot cards or anything pertaining to the occult. I can't help but get loud about it now that I see through God's Word how bad those things are. In the past when I did those things I was clueless to what scripture taught about those things being wrong. Now it's a strong personal conviction I just can't help but get voicedross about.
God help us all know the truth that sets us free!
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You don't mess with horoscopes or the occult, good for you! Is this because you realize they are worthless superstitions or just because the Bible told you so?

The truth will set you free. Truth is, there is absolutely no proof that there is a God or any mythical being out there watching over us. God only exists in people's imagination because they can not accept the fact that religion was created to explain the unknown. The more we advance, the more we know. The more we know, the more we realize religion is an unnecessary, superstitious crutch.
 
kurious_kathy said:
GOD GAVE ME ALL THE PROOF I NEED, AND IF HE CAN DO IT FOR ME I'M SURE HE CAN DO IT FOR YOU IF YOU WOULD QUIT BEING SO STUBBORN IN YOUR CHOICE TO NOT BELIEVE.
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I thought God was "all-powerful" or something like that?

I have asked before, and ask again: If God can give YOU "all the proof you need," why does he not give ME all the proof _I_ need? Apparently, what he has provided so far (such as witnesses like you) have been lacking.


God, in his omniscience, knows very well what it would take to get me to believe in him. Heck, he was the one who created me, so he was the one who made me this way. Thus, given that he has given me this gift of thought, why does he not want me to use it? In fact, wouldn't it be sinful to not utilize my god-given talents to the best of my ability? As such, I conclude that, if God exists, then it would be a sin for me to believe it.

You apparently are lucky. You claim God has provided you with proof of his existence. However, others (including me) have not been given that proof, so how can you blame us for not believing as you do? Instead of wasting your time here preaching to us, you should be praying, asking God to provide us with the proof that he has given to you.

If God can reveal himself to you, why doesn't he do it to us?
 
gypsey

I concur with the others who have suggested you look into options for your life. If nothing else, you need to confront your husband seriously. Something like, "I'm not happy" is a good way to start.

If there are any questions about the sanctity of a marriage vow, or something like that, remember that things have changed since you have been married. You have undoubtedly changed in some ways, and he has absolutely changed.

If he loves you, and is actually concerned about your happiness, he must listen. If he won't listen, and won't try to do anything to help, then what does it tell you about his feelings for you?

You got married because you thought he considered you the most important thing in his life. Now, his priorities have changed (even if he says that God was the most important thing back then, it is still true that his priorities have changed, with you dropping down). You are well within your rights to let him know that you deserve happiness, and to get that from him you need to be a higher priority in his life.

Life is too short to be stuck in a relationship where you are miserable. First try to make the relationship not miserable. In order to do that, you have to confront the problem, and that means letting him know.
 
kurious_kathy said:
GOD GAVE ME ALL THE PROOF I NEED, AND IF HE CAN DO IT FOR ME I'M SURE HE CAN DO IT FOR YOU IF YOU WOULD QUIT BEING SO STUBBORN IN YOUR CHOICE TO NOT BELIEVE.

Heaven and earth will pass away but God's Word NEVER will! All other Gods are false and impersonal, not Jesus. He truly is the only way to the Father.
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What would your response be if I told you that Shiva (from the Hindu pantheon) gave me all the proof I need and I'm sure Shiva can do it for you if you would quit being so stubborn? I'm not joking. I want to know what your response is to people who ask you to convert to a religion that you consider to be completely without foundation and evidence.
 
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