• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Strikes among public sector workers begin

kingstuart

Scholar
K
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Messages
69
Strikes among public sector workers begin

Some civil servants have begun industrial action as part of a strike involving hundreds of thousands in protest at changes to their pensions.

Some UK Border Agency staff began strike action at 1800 BST.

About 600,000 teachers and civil servants are striking on Thursday over planned pension changes they say will mean working longer and paying more.

Prime Minister David Cameron told MPs it was unfair of the strikers to cause problems for everyone.

He said government plans were "fair to taxpayers" and the public sector.

Four trade unions are taking part in strike action on Thursday.

Three are teaching unions - the National Union of Teachers (NUT), the Association of Association of Teachers and Lecturers (ATL) and the University and College Union (UCU).

They will be joined by the Public and Commercial Services Union (PCS) which has around 250,000 members.

The government believes one in five of the nation's 500,000 civil servants will take strike action.

Addressing Parliament during prime minister's questions, Mr Cameron said: "I don't believe there is any case for industrial action tomorrow, not least because talks are still on-going."

"It's only a minority of unions who have taken the decision to go ahead and strike."

The Minister for the Cabinet Office, Francis Maude, said: "Strike action is unnecessary and premature while discussions - set up at the request of the TUC - are ongoing.

"The majority of civil servants and teachers themselves did not vote for this action, showing how extremely limited support is for this strike.

"We can assure the public that we have rigorous contingency plans in place to ensure that their essential services are maintained during the strike action on Thursday.

"We will do all we can to make sure it is business as usual tomorrow and that people can continue to claim their benefits, pay their pensions and access job centre websites."

Travellers have been warned to expect delays on arrival at UK ports and airports on Thursday.

However, people leaving the UK will not be affected because departing passengers come into contact with security staff, employed by airport operator BAA, who will not be taking industrial action.

BAA, which runs Heathrow, Stansted, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Southampton airports, said: "UK Border Agency has now changed its advice to passengers and is no longer advising that those who can do so may wish to travel on other dates.

"We're disappointed that industrial action by PCS may lead to disruption for people arriving in the UK tomorrow."
Economic impact

The airport operator said the UK Border Agency had "introduced contingency plans to manage the situation".

A third of schools will be open, a third of schools with be partially effected and a third of schools will be closed, according to the BBC's political correspondent Ben Wright.

This is because of 24-hour strike action by members of the National Union of Teachers (NUT) and the Association of Teachers and Lecturers (ATL).

Business leaders have warned of the impact of the walkout on the economy.

The British Chambers of Commerce said many parents would lose pay for taking the day off work to look after their children, and productivity would be hit.

Labour leader Ed Miliband said the strikes would be a "mistake", and that both sides should get back round the negotiating table.
Click to expand...

As strikers don't get paid I am glad to see the public sector is finally doing something to address the deficit.

I don't believe these strikers have popular support. In a somewhat biased and unscientific poll in my office I found 5 against this action, with the other 4 not caring.

I often like to pass of my opinion as fact, so if anyone can share their thoughts I would be interested to read them.
 
Over the last two hundred years of organised labour , one fact seems to have persistently escaped the unions; The way to improve results is to improve the quality and quantity of production. Better work produces better results.

Withdrawing work does not. It makes things worse.

If my dustbin is not emptied, I will not be happier or healthier. Nor will I rejoice in the solidarity of the working classes. I will dump my trash by the road.
Multiply this by 65 million and ask what positive effect such strikes are likely to have.

If you don't like your job, leave. Get one that pays better or keeps you happier.
Be aware this may require more work.
 
Soapy Sam said:
Over the last two hundred years of organised labour , one fact seems to have persistently escaped the unions; The way to improve results is to improve the quality and quantity of production. Better work produces better results.

Withdrawing work does not. It makes things worse.

If my dustbin is not emptied, I will not be happier or healthier. Nor will I rejoice in the solidarity of the working classes. I will dump my trash by the road.
Multiply this by 65 million and ask what positive effect such strikes are likely to have.

If you don't like your job, leave. Get one that pays better or keeps you happier.
Be aware this may require more work.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree almost 100% with this. Sure, if we have a situation of long-term, rolling strikes then that would be different - but we have 1 day of strikes - the first major co-ordinated public sector strikes of a generation - so it's hardly a regular occurrance. So yes, the country should be behind it. maybe your bin will go an extra day without being emptied, but if that has the slightest impact on the inexorable neo-liberal corporate take-over of the country then it will be in your benefit too.

If i was living in the UK at the moment (which i'm not :) ) I would definitely be striking - not for personal benefit, but to make at least some attempt to stand against the dismantling of the state....

viva la revolucion.
 
andyandy said:
If i was living in the UK at the moment (which i'm not :) ) I would definitely be striking - not for personal benefit, but to make at least some attempt to stand against the dismantling of the state....

viva la revolucion.
Click to expand...

The strike is almost entirely about pensions.
What does that have to do with dismantling the state?
 
Tolls said:
The strike is almost entirely about pensions.
What does that have to do with dismantling the state?
Click to expand...

Well, the way the public pension system works is for current workers paying into the scheme to fund those that have already retired. By increasing contributions and raising the retirement age, the government is making the public scheme less attractive, which will mean fewer people will opt to pay into the system in the first place. If the number paying in goes low enough, then there won't be enough money to fund those that have already retired, giving the tories an excuse to scrap the whole thing and bring in the private sector. Scrapping public funding and services and replacing them with the private sector is often referred to as dismantling the state.
 
Soapy Sam said:
Over the last two hundred years of organised labour , one fact seems to have persistently escaped the unions; The way to improve results is to improve the quality and quantity of production. Better work produces better results.

Withdrawing work does not. It makes things worse.
Click to expand...

I think you'll find that when it comes to working conditions and pay, allowing the Tories to do whatever they like and offering no resistance is what makes things worse.

Soapy Sam said:
If you don't like your job, leave. Get one that pays better or keeps you happier.
Be aware this may require more work.
Click to expand...

90% of the teaching jobs in this country are in the public sector (and many private sector teachers are on strike too). What most people don't seem to realise is that public sector workers have already agreed to tighten their belts. They've taken the two year pay freeze (which in real terms is a pay cut), they've accepted the national insurance increase, they've accepted the switch from RPI to CPI (which knocks a large chunk out of pensions), and they've agreed to negotiate on retirement age.

But they refused the pension contribution increase, and the government has responded by saying "Don't strike, keep negotiating. Our part in the negotiations is to demand that you accept these contributions without question and we won't back down, but don't strike!"
 
Soapy Sam said:
If you don't like your job, leave. Get one that pays better or keeps you happier.
Be aware this may require more work.
Click to expand...

They can't, their public sector jobs are now a much better package than anything you can get in the private sector.
 
DrDave said:
Wait, what?
Click to expand...

On pensions, for some publish sector works, this is true. PCSPS (classic or classic +, both closed to new members) is still pretty much the gold standard unless you happen to be in a position to run a major financial institution into the ground- then you may be able to find a better deal.
Other public sector pensions are not as good, but often betetr tha private schmes. Howeaver for equivalent skills and responsibility the total private sector remuneration package is often much better that what much of the public sector offers.
 
brodski said:

On pensions, for some publish sector works, this is true. PCSPS (classic or classic +, both closed to new members) is still pretty much the gold standard unless you happen to be in a position to run a major financial institution into the ground- then you may be able to find a better deal.
Other public sector pensions are not as good, but often betetr tha private schmes. Howeaver for equivalent skills and responsibility the total private sector remuneration package is often much better that what much of the public sector offers.
Click to expand...

The claim was for anything the private sector offers. The CEO of my previous company left with a payoff of $25M so you'll need to show me a pretty hefty pension to match that.
 
DrDave said:
The claim was for anything the private sector offers. The CEO of my previous company left with a payoff of $25M so you'll need to show me a pretty hefty pension to match that.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of a recent Mark Steel article -

Mark Steel said:
But apparently these pensions are gold-plated and it's where all our money has gone. So when you read that the richest 1,000 people in the country increased their wealth last year by £60bn, number 34 in that list must be Alf, a retired fireman from Ipswich, who now lives in Cannes on a boat he outbid Roman Abramovich for, and holds parties where he uses his skills to spray cocktails into everyone's glass from a hose. And number 49 will be Beryl, a retired midwife who's planning to buy Tottenham Hotspur if she can mount a challenge to the current chief shareholder, Amy, the retired lollipop lady from Workington.
Click to expand...
 
brodski said:

On pensions, for some publish sector works, this is true. PCSPS (classic or classic +, both closed to new members) is still pretty much the gold standard unless you happen to be in a position to run a major financial institution into the ground- then you may be able to find a better deal.
Other public sector pensions are not as good, but often betetr tha private schmes. Howeaver for equivalent skills and responsibility the total private sector remuneration package is often much better that what much of the public sector offers.
Click to expand...
As you point out. The old schemes which ahve been closed for a number of years are favourable in today's terms but staff in those schemes were for most (if not all) of their careers paid far less than they would earn outside the public sector. They accepted lower pay rises because the pension benefits included in those agreements were part of the overall remuneration packages. The Government had their cake and now want to eat it by refusing to honour those agreements.

I recall Hutton pointed out that the number on those old schemes is reducing all the time and to withdraw them would not give any significant saving. Seems to be a political not a financial issue.

It is strange that when it comes to banks and other private companies the Government are happy with huge pay packets and bonuses because those receiving the money will spend and reinvest it in the UK, yet when it comes to the pensions of poorly paid public workers that same argument for some reason does not apply.
 
Last edited:
Pensions are the problem. They are always undefunded, public or private sector. The temptation to underfund them is too great, after all the people making the funding decisions will be long gone by the time the feces hits the fan. You can even severely undefund them even while adhering to the letter of the law by just making a few optimistic (but perfectly legal) assumptions about your rate of return.

Show me a pension fund, I'll show you an underfunded pension fund.

As it turns out, governments can't predict the future any more than Sylvia Browne can. And properly funding a pension requires you to predict the future.

Why anyone would want their retirement fund dependent on the ability of the fund manager to predict the future and resist the overwhelming temptation to spend money now rather than locking it up in a pension fund for decades is beyond me.

Eventually, everyone will have to move to defined contribution plans.
 
Lothian said:
It is strange that when it comes to banks and other private companies the Government are happy with huge pay packets and bonuses
Click to expand...
You want your government to regulate private sector pay to that extent?
 
WildCat said:
You want your government to regulate private sector pay to that extent?
Click to expand...
No, I want them to be consistant.

There are number of private companies here (including banks), who have recieved heaps of Government money and who have passed to staff a proportion of that money in what the papers call 'huge bonuses.'

The Government's logic for not interfering in that practice is not being applied to the public sector.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom