'Street' Harassment and Bullying

[qayak]

Check your sources. Christian Science is actually a very different cult than Christianity. As Linda Richman of Coffee Talk might say, "Christian Science: Neither Christian, nor science. Discuss."

As christian as catholicism.

 

[qayak]

Like hell. I am FORCED to wear clothing, I don't get to choose whether I can or not. I don't wear it for you, or any other man or woman, I wear it because I MUST.

No one said you did anything for me or anyone else. Why get your very unfashionable panties in a knot?

I stated that fashion in our society is meant to be commented on. Here are a few examples: (I think your thinking is along the lines of Katharine Hepburn or maybe Marlene Dietrich)

"Only men who are not interested in women are interested in women's clothes. Men who like women never notice what they wear." (Anatole France)

"A woman is closest to being naked when she is well dressed." (Coco Chanel)

"It pains me physically to see a woman victimized, rendered pathetic, by fashion.” (Coco Chanel)

"Fashion is made to become unfashionable.” (Coco Chanel)

“Women dress alike all over the world: they dress to be annoying to other women” (Elsa Schiaparelli)

“Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary.” (Cecil Beaton)

"I dress for the image. Not for myself, not for the public, not for fashion, not for men." (Marlene Dietrich)

"Fashion is as profound and critical a part of the social life of man as sex, and is made up of the same ambivalent mixture of irresistible urges and inevitable taboos." (Rene Konig)

"A woman's dress should be like a barbedwire fence: serving its purpose without obstructing the view." (Sophia Loren)

"They seek him here, they seek him there,
His clothes are loud, but never square.
It will make or break him so he's got to buy the best,
'Cause he's a dedicated follower of fashion." (The Kinks)

"A fashion is merely a form of ugliness so unbearable that we are compelled to alter it every six months." (Oscar Wilde)

"The dress must follow the body of a woman, not the body following the shape of the dress." (Hubert de Givenchy)

"Today, fashion is really about sensuality-how a woman feels on the inside. In the '80s women used suits with exaggerated shoulders and waists to make a strong impression. Women are now more comfortable with themselves and their bodies-they no longer feel the need to hide behind their clothes." (Donna Karan)

"Although golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight Protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing." (Dave Barry)

"While clothes may not make the woman, they certainly have a strong effect on her self-confidence - which, I believe, does make the woman." (Mary Kay Ashe)

"I wear my sort of clothes to save me the trouble of deciding which clothes to wear." (Katharine Hepburn)

"The fashion of this world passeth away." (Bible, 1 Corinthians)

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

it's a nice set of quotes, but how does that correspond to my clothing being meant to generate comments from strangers on the street?

 

[qayak]

it's a nice set of quotes, but how does that correspond to my clothing being meant to generate comments from strangers on the street?

Think harder.

And your little tirade has been done by some very fashionable people.

 

[TheJim]

A misandrist trying to justify her bs study and her job how surprising and at the same time clinging to victim-hood. I am sure she produced those numbers for her book mostly because because she made pretty much every comment that a man has ever said to a woman into a harassment statement but than she is part of a group that is a master of misrepresenting data the AAUW.

 

[theprestige]

As christian as catholicism.

Like I said, check your sources.

 

[Delvo]

It goes from comment to harassment when the person saying it knows that it won't be taken as a compliment.

The problem is with the "knowledge" part. Not only is it impossible, but it's also not necessarily connected to whether the recipient feels harassed.

There isn't a guy on this planet who thinks "Hey sweetits, shake it don't break it!" is a compliment.

Not true; understandable, but erroneous.

It is a power play.

Even farther from the truth; entirely made-up & just plain crazy.

Think harder.

Make sense.

 

[qayak]

Like I said, check your sources.

Done and Christian Science is as christian as any other sect of christianity.

 

[qayak]

Make sense.

[sigh] People on this forum are lazier than christians lying on the couch, with their distended bellies exposed to the heat of the fireplace, after christmas dinner.

1) The author's blog stated (Which I quoted) "The way a woman is dressed does not tell you if she wants to be commented on" and thus any comment is harassment.

2) I pointed out that the article is wrong. It is irrelevent whether the woman wants you to comment, in our society fashion is meant to be noticed, incite emotion and be commented on. I pointed out that this was not only true of dress but of car design, house design, hair styles, etc.

3) SGM stated that this was wrong by saying: "I don't wear it for you, or any other man or woman, I wear it because I MUST."

4) To which I pointed out that it was irrelevent why one wears a fashion it is still meant to be commented on in our society and I posted many quotes that demonstrate exactly that.

5) SGM couldn't see the connection between her not wanting strangers to comment and my quotes.

6) I told them to think harder because there is no connection between the two. The connection is between the quotes and our societies expectations of what fashion is for. That of drawing attention, inciting emotion, and being commented on.

7) Which brings us to your post.

 

[quixotecoyote]

Do you get the difference between commenting on a fashion choice and hollering sexual come-ons at women on the street?

 

[Dancing David]

It isn't about "hoping" for comments. It is simply that fashion is something in our society that is meant to be commented on. The latest trends in clothing, footwear, car design, house design . . . the list goes on and on, are all meant to cause a stir, incite emotion and get people talking.

And you are assuming incorrectly that the person is wearing 'provocative' clothing, asthough that is an excuse for stupid behavior.

So yelling out sexual comments at a 13 yo is acceptable due to the fact that some fashions are designed "to be commented on" , with no knowledge of what the person is wearing.

Secondly "she wore clothing" thata sked ne assault her is no excuse.

Now is she was wearing a Ladt Gaga meat suit that would be good to laugh at.

 

[Delvo]

Your assertion referred to in #2 is false, and your quotes referred to in #4 do nothing to support/indicate it.

 

[Visual Purple]

If men were yelling, "Hey, is that Comme des Garcons?" or even, "Great outfit!" qayak's comments about fashion might make some sense. Mostly what they're yelling is some variant of, "Hey baby, want to do me?" I don't know if it's intended to be intimidating, but it often is, at least a bit. If a guy dosn't get this, he's not thinking.

 

[Cleon]

FWIW, this story has been making the rounds on Facebook, and it's worth a read (not to mention a "hell, yeah!").

(Warning: Naughty words in that article.)

 

[bookitty]

[sigh] People on this forum are lazier than christians lying on the couch, with their distended bellies exposed to the heat of the fireplace, after christmas dinner.

1) The author's blog stated (Which I quoted) "The way a woman is dressed does not tell you if she wants to be commented on" and thus any comment is harassment.

2) I pointed out that the article is wrong. It is irrelevent whether the woman wants you to comment, in our society fashion is meant to be noticed, incite emotion and be commented on. I pointed out that this was not only true of dress but of car design, house design, hair styles, etc.

3) SGM stated that this was wrong by saying: "I don't wear it for you, or any other man or woman, I wear it because I MUST."

4) To which I pointed out that it was irrelevent why one wears a fashion it is still meant to be commented on in our society and I posted many quotes that demonstrate exactly that.

5) SGM couldn't see the connection between her not wanting strangers to comment and my quotes.

6) I told them to think harder because there is no connection between the two. The connection is between the quotes and our societies expectations of what fashion is for. That of drawing attention, inciting emotion, and being commented on.

7) Which brings us to your post.

Ah fashion! Amazing how a really pulled together outfit makes a guy yell invitations to perform oral sex from the window of his moving car! Coco Chanel would be proud.

Given that men also engage in dressing fashionably, I have to wonder why very few people yell at them from moving cars. I've never heard of a lawyer who has to put up with crude innuendo while strolling in a slick Armani suit, an outfit that is charged with far more social implication than a pair of yoga pants and a man's over-sized t-shirt. (The outfit I was wearing the last time someone yelled at me, btw.)

It's not about fashion, it's about getting a woman's attention. It's the "Made you look game." It's a reminder to the woman that the man is there. That he knows she doesn't like it but he is going to do it anyway. It's a power play.

 

[qayak]

Ah fashion! Amazing how a really pulled together outfit makes a guy yell invitations to perform oral sex from the window of his moving car! Coco Chanel would be proud.

Who are you arguing with with this stupidity? I am discussing this:

1) The author's blog stated (Which I quoted) "The way a woman is dressed does not tell you if she wants to be commented on" and thus any comment is harassment.

The point is that there are many things, like this one example, in the article that are just wrong. Commenting on a woman's dress is not harassment, it is perfectly acceptable in our society.

It's not about fashion, it's about getting a woman's attention. It's the "Made you look game." It's a reminder to the woman that the man is there. That he knows she doesn't like it but he is going to do it anyway. It's a power play.

Go ahead and demonize all men but you, and the article, are wrong. Commenting on anyone's dress is not harassment, even if the comment is negative.

Which is what led me to my original question in this thread, "At what point does it become harassment?"

 

[qayak]

If men were yelling, "Hey, is that Comme des Garcons?" or even, "Great outfit!" qayak's comments about fashion might make some sense. Mostly what they're yelling is some variant of, "Hey baby, want to do me?" I don't know if it's intended to be intimidating, but it often is, at least a bit. If a guy dosn't get this, he's not thinking.

Which is exactly why I asked my original question, "At what point does it become harassment?" because the blog is wrong. Commenting on dress, shoes, your car, your house, your choice of nail polish, etc., is perfectly acceptable.

 

[mediocrity511]

Who are you arguing with with this stupidity? I am discussing this:

1) The author's blog stated (Which I quoted) "The way a woman is dressed does not tell you if she wants to be commented on" and thus any comment is harassment.

The point is that there are many things, like this one example, in the article that are just wrong. Commenting on a woman's dress is not harassment, it is perfectly acceptable in our society.



Go ahead and demonize all men but you, and the article, are wrong. Commenting on anyone's dress is not harassment, even if the comment is negative.

Which is what led me to my original question in this thread, "At what point does it become harassment?"

I assume what the author is trying to get at is that sometimes if a woman is dressed "sexily", she is deemed to be asking for harassment in the street. So wearing attractive clothes should not mean that a woman is consenting to be sexually harassed. I doubt she meant that it would be harassment if someone yelled at a woman that she should choose a different colour of hosiery!

 

[Damien Evans]

I would certainly enjoy a chance to entertain them. Me and the Judge (TM).

Please tell me that isn't a pet name for your gun.

 

[JJM 777]

Think it isn't a problem? Think again.

We just need to define in legislation what is legal and what is not. Then people can sue offenders, if there are neutral eye-witnesses confirming what exactly was said. Ignoring and forgetting what some drunkards or fools say is a useful social skill too, though.