Steven Jones debates Leslie Robertson

[Laith]

Steven Jones was on radio with Leslie Robertson, one of the structural engineers who designed the Twin Towers.


When Dr. Jones raised the molten metal issue, Mr. Robertson seemed to doubt that there was really molten metal under the Twin Towers after the collapse.



Also, Mr. Robertson said that once the buildings began to collapse, they would have necessarily collapsed all the way down. However, Mr. Robertson admitted that he had not performed any calculations to prove that claim.


When Dr. Jones raised the issue of the fast collapse times, Robertson admitted that he had not looked into this, had performed no calculations, and really had no answer for the rapid collapse.

It wont let me post the link to it

 

[twinstead]

I suspect the debate would have gone differently for Jones if he had debated the many, many experts who HAVE done the calculations and DO have the answers for his questions.

I wonder why he didn't?

 

[Laith]

I suspect the debate would have gone differently for Jones if he had debated the many, many experts who HAVE done the calculations and DO have the answers for his questions.

I wonder why he didn't?

Jones didn't know what calculations he had done. At least listen to the audio before judging. Leslie robertson even backed out of talking about building 7 because he didn't design it!

Robertson helped design them and he doesn't have answers.

 

[Arus808]

he's a designer. please tell me what beyond his field of expertise does he need to comment on? He didn't do the calculations, because, he wasn't apart of the investigating team, nor was it his job to do so.

 

[Laith]

he's a designer. please tell me what beyond his field of expertise does he need to comment on? He didn't do the calculations, because, he wasn't apart of the investigating team, nor was it his job to do so.

Well if he can't be bothered to do calculations why is he offering to debate?

He also refutes the molten steel despite all the sourced, reliable quotes that are available, that I can't link to

 

[W6102LA]

It wont let me post the link to it

Once you reach 15 posts you can post links, for now just remove the http:// and someone else can link it for you

 

[Piggy]

Leslie robertson even backed out of talking about building 7 because he didn't design it!

You mean he declined to talk about a topic just because he didn't know anything about it?

No wonder he's not a conspiracy theorist!

 

[T.A.M.]

Why is it some people expect everyone remotely involved with any aspect of the WTCs to be as godamn obsessed with their destruction as the vast majority of CTers.

The man designed them. Do you have any idea how much guilt this man went through when he watched them fall, killing 3000 people. He blamed himself for a long time, and may still. For anyone, Jones, you, or anyone, to give him grief because he didnt calculate why the buildings collapsed in NEAR free fall time, his just crass, obnoxious, cold, and just plain wrong.

I am sorry if I am coming down heavy on you, but it just annoys me when this type of thing gets started.

I would love, LOVE to see Steven Jones take on any one, ANY ONE, of the NIST engineers that worked on the WTC Report. He would find himself completely out of his depth.

TAM

 

[Laith]

Thanks i'm nearly at 15 lol.

Jones makes another good point. if NIST doesn't study what happens after collapse initiation we cannot assume the collapse would be total. I'm listening now and Jones has Robertson reeling.

 

[Arus808]

Well if he can't be bothered to do calculations why is he offering to debate?

I thought that Robertson was on Steven Jones' radio show. So wasn;t it Steven Jones who offered to debate.

Did Steven Jones tell mr. Robertson before hand what he was going to aks him? If not, then how would Mr. Robertson know what details he would need to know prior to being on the radio show?

He also refutes the molten steel despite all the sourced, reliable quotes that are available, that I can't link to

first you say molten metal not molten steel.
Molten metal is plausible, but Mr. Robertson, again wasn't involved in any investigations into 9/11. He can only offer what he knows about the buildings to which he helped design and get constructed.

If Steven Jones wanted something more, he should have debated with those involved in the investigations.


Edit: name corrected.

 

[Laith]

Why is it some people expect everyone remotely involved with any aspect of the WTCs to be as godamn obsessed with their destruction as the vast majority of CTers.

The man designed them. Do you have any idea how much guilt this man went through when he watched them fall, killing 3000 people. He blamed himself for a long time, and may still. For anyone, Jones, you, or anyone, to give him grief because he didnt calculate why the buildings collapsed in NEAR free fall time, his just crass, obnoxious, cold, and just plain wrong.

I am sorry if I am coming down heavy on you, but it just annoys me when this type of thing gets started.

I would love, LOVE to see Steven Jones take on any one, ANY ONE, of the NIST engineers that worked on the WTC Report. He would find himself completely out of his depth.

TAM

It's interesting. I just thought people might want to hear it.

Jones does mention some engineers I haven't heard of who, he claims, have done calculations that collapse should be at least 36 seconds.

If my posts aren't welcome I won't bother again.

 

[Arus808]

Jones makes another good point. if NIST doesn't study what happens after collapse initiation we cannot assume the collapse would be total. I'm listening now and Jones has Robertson reeling.

This is where Steven Jones doesn't know what he is talking about. once collapse initated, there is NO force in this world or the next that would have stopped it. That's why the NIST didn't study what happened during and after the collapse. it was definitely going to be a global collapse, given the damage as reported in their report.


Edit : name corrected

 

[Laith]

I thought that Robertson was on Alex Jones' radio show. So wasn;t it Alex Jones who offered to debate.

Did Alex Jones tell mr. Robertson before hand what he was going to aks him? If not, then how would Mr. Robertson know what details he would need to know prior to being on the radio show?



first you say molten metal not molten steel.
Molten metal is plausible, but Mr. Robertson, again wasn't involved in any investigations into 9/11. He can only offer what he knows about the buildings to which he helped design and get constructed.

If Alex Jones wanted something more, he should have debated with those involved in the investigations.

It's Steven not Alex. I will post a link later with all the molten steel quotes.

 

[60hzxtl]

Why is it some people expect everyone remotely involved with any aspect of the WTCs to be as godamn obsessed with their destruction as the vast majority of CTers.


TAM

Why not?

Look at the credence given to Willy Rodriguez.

 

[Laith]

This is where Alex Jones doesn't know what he is talking about. once collapse initated, there is NO force in this world or the next that would have stopped it. That's why the NIST didn't study what happened during and after the collapse. it was definitely going to be a global collapse, given the damage as reported in their report.

How can you say collapse would be total down to ground level? On what basis. Jones is a Professor of Physics you know.

 

[Gravy]

Leslie robertson even backed out of talking about building 7 because he didn't design it!

And you have a problem with that? Please explain.

 

[dirtywick]

Just to play catch up, Steven Jones invites Leslie Roberstson on his show and the invitation is accepted, and he has a good opportunity to talk to one of the designers of the building to learn some actual facts about the building and he's wasting it by asking him about molten steel and freefall collapse?

 

[Arus808]

It's interesting. I just thought people might want to hear it.

Yes, its interesting to see Steven Jones ask someone , who is goign through his own guilt and grief, to comment on items / facts that he would not know off hand.

Steven Jones, is a person who "picks" his debates according to what he wants to be said.

So instead of asking one the numerous engineers who worked on investigating the collapse and aftermath of 9/11, he targets someone who had no hand in the investigations, and was only responsible for the design and construction of the towers.

Why would Steven JOnes want Robertson to comment on WTC 7? Robertson wasn't involved.

Jones does mention some engineers I haven't heard of who, he claims, have done calculations that collapse should be at least 36 seconds.

If my posts aren't welcome I won't bother again.

They are welcomed, we just want to know why you'd find it interesting and how it weighs on your opinions.

 

[Piggy]

If my posts aren't welcome I won't bother again.

Post away. Just don't expect that you won't get BS called on you if you start slinging it. So far, every 9/11 CTer has been nothing but evasion, speculation, and downright error. Why should we expect this to be any different, especially when there is legitimate data to be had?

 

[beachnut]

Steven Jones was on radio with Leslie Robertson, one of the structural engineers who designed the Twin Towers.


When Dr. Jones raised the molten metal issue, Mr. Robertson seemed to doubt that there was really molten metal under the Twin Towers after the collapse.



Also, Mr. Robertson said that once the buildings began to collapse, they would have necessarily collapsed all the way down. However, Mr. Robertson admitted that he had not performed any calculations to prove that claim.


When Dr. Jones raised the issue of the fast collapse times, Robertson admitted that he had not looked into this, had performed no calculations, and really had no answer for the rapid collapse.

It wont let me post the link to it

it seems to me, after studing Robertson, he is the expert, and he knows that fire destroyed his building

Dr Thermite Jones just retired because BYU found his paper to be of no scientific merit. He asks questions and has no answers.

Dr Jones never has had proof of molten metal, yet the Al clad WTC would have had tons of Al, and it melts at jet fuel temperature.

A lot of CT sites say molten steel, at least Dr Jones makes it molten metal.

I have see photographic evidence of chunks of metal concrete etc all togehter like a rock, but when 110 floors weigh 5000 tons each, what would the guy on the bottom look like?

Robertson said!!!

The original structural engineering Leslie E. Robertson design for an aircraft
impact, but it was a slow speed landing configuration, 7 to 10 times less
energy at impact than the 9/11 impacts!


The original structural engineering Leslie E. Robertson said it was the 10,000
gallons of fuel they failed to consider (besides the order of magnitude larger
crash). Based on the design of the WTC, it is amazing the towers remained
standing as long as they did, surviving a impact blast 10 times greater than
design.


Leslie E. Robertson is a structural engineer who has designed hundreds of
buildings around the world including the World Trade Center.


Leslie E. Robertson, , said:
"The twin towers of the World Trade Center were designed to resist safely the
impacting by the largest aircraft of that time...the intercontinental version
of the Boeing 707. In no small measure because of the high level of
competence of the men and women of LERA, each of the towers resisted the
impact of an aircraft larger than the 707. Yes, fire brought down the towers,
but the structural integrity created by the engineers of LERA allowed perhaps
thousands of persons to evacuate the buildings prior to the fire-induced
collapse." http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/WTC/LesRobertson.html

Leslie E. Robertson, , said: on being hit by a commercial jet -
" It appears that about 25,000 people safely exited the buildings, almost all
of them from below the impact floors; almost everyone above the impact floors
perished, either from the impact and fire or from the subsequent collapse. The
structures of the buildings were heroic in some ways but less so in others.
The buildings survived the impact of the Boeing 767 aircraft, an impact very
much greater than had been contemplated in our design (a slow-flying Boeing
707 lost in the fog and seeking a landing field). Therefore, the robustness of
the towers was exemplary. At the same time, the fires raging in the inner
reaches of the buildings undermined their strength. In time, the unimaginable
happened . . . wounded by the impact of the aircraft and bleeding from the
fires, both of the towers of the World Trade Center collapsed."

http://www.nae.edu/nae/bridgecom.nsf/weblinks/CGOZ-58NLCB?OpenDocument


Leslie E. Robertson, , said: more on design for jet impact –
" The two towers were the first structures outside of the military and nuclear
industries designed to resist the impact of a jet airliner, the Boeing 707. It
was assumed that the jetliner would be lost in the fog, seeking to land at JFK
or at Newark. To the best of our knowledge, little was known about the effects
of a fire from such an aircraft, and no designs were prepared for that
circumstance. Indeed, at that time, no fireproofing systems were available to
control the effects of such fires."

http://www.nae.edu/nae/bridgecom.nsf/weblinks/CGOZ-58NLCB?OpenDocument

More on Robertson -

http://interactive.wsj.com/fr/emailthis/retrieve.cgi?d=SB1002665463810757240.djm

http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/WTC/LERPresentation.htm

A quick review
The original structural engineering Leslie E. Robertson said; -design of WTC included an impact only of a "slow-flying Boeing 707."

-"wounded by the impact of the aircraft and bleeding from the fires, both of
the towers of the World Trade Center collapsed"

Leslie Robertson's building fell, how does he feel? Dr Jones is making up stuff about explosives blowing up the building. Dr Jones is the one who should feel bad. No wonder he retired/fired. Now he is on the circuit speading his lie couched in just wanting the truth and another look! This loon is 5 years too late!