Steven Avery: Making of a Murderer

[McHrozni]

I am trying to figure whether this means American police routinely kill people.

Of course it does. The question is whether this is out of malice or not.

He's trying to say that it would be easier to kill Steven Avery than to frame him for a murder he didn't commit. I'm inclined to agree, a lot about it being a setup by the police relies on dumb luck, like the cut on Stevens' finger. Would officers risk being found out by something like this?

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

Bound to the notion of "framing someone" is an actual dead girl. That's a level of loyalty I find hard to fathom. Ten years later and no whistle blower either.

This isn't East Germany we are talking about. People are free to move, send anonymous letters - a bunch of things.

No matter how tainted you think county government may be, conspiracy is a tough narrative to pull off convincingly. Tougher still to maintain. One person turning state's witness for immunity. Just one.

The defense claimed it could all be done by two people with relative ease and it could be done by one if he did a lot of hard legwork. Keeping the conspiracy a secret is assumed possible if the number of people involved is smaller than three.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

That's a step too far for me. You don't put the vehicle there unless you already know she's dead and you already know Avery didn't do it. Because in the one case (you don't know she's dead) putting the vehicle there makes no sense (she could show up), and in the other (Avery is innocent) you risk ruining the case against a guilty Avery by putting it there. (Someone may have seen Avery dump the car where you got it.)

It starts to drift off into conspiracy woo in my opinion. Impulse and spur of the moment are one thing. Careful planning (and possibly a murder) quite another.

The conspiracy would have to say that the deputy (?) found the car with the body of Theresa Haselbach and decided to move it in a way that would implicate Steven Avery as the culprit. This obviously implies the conspiracy involved at least two people, that deputy and officer Lenk, who planted the evidence. This is on the edge of what is still possible to pull off.

There are many problems with that hypothesis, but not to the point where it would become impossible. The most glaring ones are all that it doesn't make sense to do so in retrospect (there are several issues), and the only way to explain it away is: The officers involved didn't consider that aspect. It could've been impulse and spur of the moment thing for the officers as well, after all.

It's not the most believable hypothesis as a result.

McHrozni

 

[Samson]

Of course it does. The question is whether this is out of malice or not.

He's trying to say that it would be easier to kill Steven Avery than to frame him for a murder he didn't commit. I'm inclined to agree, a lot about it being a setup by the police relies on dumb luck, like the cut on Stevens' finger. Would officers risk being found out by something like this?

McHrozni

Of course they routinely kill people in the path of duty. They do so in New Zealand, about one or two a year.
What Peterson said was in a sense accidental. Hypothetical. I doubt he has bodies buried like Mafia, but the bravado in his statement says be very scared of police in Manitowoc. Do not try to win a petty battle like Avery did. Or something like that.

 

[Samson]

Was the death of Teresa, after the last person to see her alive could also happen to be about to bankrupt the county, purely coincidental?

Mike Halbach became embedded quickly, right to the death.

"Will he walk this time?" he asked to camera. "I don't think so".

 

[JREF2010]

Of course they routinely kill people in the path of duty. They do so in New Zealand, about one or two a year.
What Peterson said was in a sense accidental. Hypothetical. I doubt he has bodies buried like Mafia, but the bravado in his statement says be very scared of police in Manitowoc. Do not try to win a petty battle like Avery did. Or something like that.

or you do so at your own peril...

 

[JREF2010]

interesting the MaM, with closed caption, Barb is yelling at the news media hounds after BD's conviction. shes yelling.."you want me to sya something,? I think the Halbachs set this whole **** up, i really do"

also BD has the dream of the black cloaked person in his dream and it was TH, who tells him shes alive and it was all a joke.

not a lot of theorys on TH being alive. is there much TH blood anywhere? has the DNA been proven TH DNA from the bones?

the bullet wasnt deemed blood, it was only TH DNA.....

just imagine what a twist that would be.?

 

[Samson]

interesting the MaM, with closed caption, Barb is yelling at the news media hounds after BD's conviction. shes yelling.."you want me to sya something,? I think the Halbachs set this whole **** up, i really do"

also BD has the dream of the black cloaked person in his dream and it was TH, who tells him shes alive and it was all a joke.

not a lot of theorys on TH being alive. is there much TH blood anywhere? has the DNA been proven TH DNA from the bones?

the bullet wasnt deemed blood, it was only TH DNA.....

just imagine what a twist that would be.?

Shaun Attwood writes

"Mike Halbach in good faith believing Steven had killed his sister, had gone through Teresa’s room at some point early on and found her spare key. He gave it to Colborn, who gave it to Lenk. Now Mike was totally committed. He was the only non-law enforcement wildcard, knowing eventually that the key was planted."

Yes, one of the Halbachs helped put Brendan in jail alright.

 

[JREF2010]

for some reason it seems very believable due to the severe bias he had and RH weirdness.
but this case is full of weirdness. i was 110% convinced ST and Bobby had the guilt weirdness.

the massive amount of lab testing will hopefully normalize some of this case.
the cell towers might support Zellners theory which might be why she fingered RH and the QuarryDude.

reddits post on DNA seems to be the wheels really starting to turn... will it be a bunch of garbage dna data again like the Italy/Knox case? a vicious murder with no blood dna of the accused or in this case not even the victim?

 

[Samson]

for some reason it seems very believable due to the severe bias he had and RH weirdness.
but this case is full of weirdness. i was 110% convinced ST and Bobby had the guilt weirdness.

the massive amount of lab testing will hopefully normalize some of this case.
the cell towers might support Zellners theory which might be why she fingered RH and the QuarryDude.

reddits post on DNA seems to be the wheels really starting to turn... will it be a bunch of garbage dna data again like the Italy/Knox case? a vicious murder with no blood dna of the accused or in this case not even the victim?

Whichever way you see the case the immutable data point is the two bullets drilled down from left rear and at different angles to her skull/brain.
That is evidence that will not change.
What is this?

I see an execution.

What else do threaders see? I am totally interested and open minded now.

 

[JREF2010]

a skeleton from anywhere could be the bones, wheres the evidence? wheres the body?
i also read the melted cellphone wasnt even the right one TH used?
I mean something really strange is going on and some time was spent destroying evidence while other was being planted?

clip> old post
I'm a funeral director and licensed crematory operator. I've seen a lot of burnt bones. Granted, I don't know how hot or how long the remains found in the pit were burned; but based on their appearance, they were disintegrated to the same point that cremains are when I pull them from the retort. In order for that to happen, she would've burned at 1800F for about 4 hours (estimating her size from her pictures and video clip). If she did burn that hot, there would've been no DNA evidence from the cremains. That shin bone couldn't have been in the burn pit. Even if the fire didn't burn that hot, I don't see how that one fragment survived and none of the others did.>end clip>

 

[McHrozni]

a skeleton from anywhere could be the bones, wheres the evidence? wheres the body?
i also read the melted cellphone wasnt even the right one TH used?
I mean something really strange is going on and some time was spent destroying evidence while other was being planted?

clip> old post
I'm a funeral director and licensed crematory operator. I've seen a lot of burnt bones. Granted, I don't know how hot or how long the remains found in the pit were burned; but based on their appearance, they were disintegrated to the same point that cremains are when I pull them from the retort. In order for that to happen, she would've burned at 1800F for about 4 hours (estimating her size from her pictures and video clip). If she did burn that hot, there would've been no DNA evidence from the cremains. That shin bone couldn't have been in the burn pit. Even if the fire didn't burn that hot, I don't see how that one fragment survived and none of the others did.>end clip>

Pit fires aren't even, some parts would be hotter than others. The fragment was in an area that was cooler than the rest.

McHrozni

 

[Samson]

Pit fires aren't even, some parts would be hotter than others. The fragment was in an area that was cooler than the rest.

McHrozni

McHrozni:

You and the Manitowoc police may be the only people left (seeming to ) suggest Steven Avery burned Teresa Halbach in his fire pit.

Jerry Buting's book is about $20, and he was engaged intensively in investigating the crime for which he was defending Avery, and discovered the broken blood vial that could explain the blood in the Rav, consistent with his client not bleeding within it.
At this point he could reinterpret the accusations.
I am mystified by your (devil's?) advocacy.

 

[Samzilla]

Shaun Attwood writes

"Mike Halbach in good faith believing Steven had killed his sister, had gone through Teresa’s room at some point early on and found her spare key. He gave it to Colborn, who gave it to Lenk. Now Mike was totally committed. He was the only non-law enforcement wildcard, knowing eventually that the key was planted."

Yes, one of the Halbachs helped put Brendan in jail alright.

And what's Shaun Attwood's source for this claim?

 

[Samson]

And what's Shaun Attwood's source for this claim?

It was a reconstruction. It makes sense when studying Halbach's demeanour thoroughout but proof is probably out of reach.
Someone gave the valet key to Lenk, someone who could procure it. Are there other candidates?

 

[McHrozni]

You and the Manitowoc police may be the only people left (seeming to ) suggest Steven Avery burned Teresa Halbach in his fire pit.

Her charred bones were found in it. Proving she wasn't burned in it would require some extraordinary evidence.

Jerry Buting's book is about $20, and he was engaged intensively in investigating the crime for which he was defending Avery, and discovered the broken blood vial that could explain the blood in the Rav, consistent with his client not bleeding within it.
At this point he could reinterpret the accusations.

Where was the blood vial found, what kind of a vial it was (color of cap will do), etc?

I am mystified by your (devil's?) advocacy.

I find it entertaining. Would the thread be interesting if we were all saying about how innocent Steven Avery is?

McHrozni

 

[marplots]

It was a reconstruction. It makes sense when studying Halbach's demeanour thoroughout but proof is probably out of reach.
Someone gave the valet key to Lenk, someone who could procure it. Are there other candidates?

Yeah. Steven Avery.

 

[Samson]

Her charred bones were found in it. Proving she wasn't burned in it would require some extraordinary evidence.



Where was the blood vial found, what kind of a vial it was (color of cap will do), etc?



I find it entertaining. Would the thread be interesting if we were all saying about how innocent Steven Avery is?

McHrozni

Yes. He is so obviously innocent.
Planted evidence, Jerry Buting defends then writes a book, Kathleen Zellner states the facts and declares innocence.

You are polishing a turd, if only Charlie Wilkes would return to clarify.
I begin to see why people desert this forum,.

 

[marplots]

It occurred to me there was someone else at the crime scene who was carrying around Steven Avery's blood.

Steven Avery.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Dassey's statement in the context of police behavior

Did the police who questioned Brendan Dassey realize that he could go away for life? Did they realize that they were putting words into his mouth? Did they know about Mr. Dassey's mental limitations? The answer to the first question is obviously "yes," and my answer to the second and third questions is "probably." If the police are willing to do that, then upon what basis can we exclude the possibility of framing* Mr. Avery? I can't.
*EDT
I mean that the police might have framed Mr. Avery. Hope that helps.