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Steven Avery: Making of a Murderer

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thats interesting, I didnt know thats how it works but I have noticed the victims are often surrounded by the state/system/prosecution/police....I think its intentional to get the victims on their side for media purposes too.
One case that really illustrates this is a recent NZ case where
1. The woman leads the police case against a defendant.
2. The defendant has a cast iron alibi.
3. The defendant is acquitted by a jury.
4. The woman immeditely states they are looking for no one else.
5. The father of the victim praises the woman for leading a thoroughly professional investigation.
6. The woman is promoted to district commander.

7. The killers of the original victim are free to kill again.

If you think I am making any part of that up, you would be quite wrong.....

Available on kindle

https://kindle.amazon.com/work/who-killed-scott-guy-gripped-ebook/B01ARPYCEM/B00F7UR9WK
 
geeez.

if Steve gets out you think the Capital Hill will pass a Avery pt2 Bill?

any guess on who Zellner was referring to when she mentioned people come forward as they always do when the testing starts?...or something like that.

she says someone came forward and I wonder who? a lot of people probably come sending theorys but she ackowledges this one.

Im guessing its the roommate who has something on RH lying.
 
An enigma wrapped in a mystery.

Or is it the other way round?

Much communication, planting, an original EXECUTION please never forget.
The bullet trajectories speak of this.

Someone shot her from the rear left, she did not expect this. Was she compliant because law enforcement can achieve this?
 
more than $36 million can be a persons ego, pride, face saving, career and pension, family....

its still hard to imagine AC and Link chopping and burning up a body they found?
or a body they created..... often the blue protect their own, it could be, or was it truly a found car AC called in on the Nov 3 and it was a murder someone else did they wanted to pin on Steve, by chopping and burning and using the barrels to transport to the trailer back yard....

Zellners sure quiet. Something serious this way comes as they say in Harry Potter?
 
more than $36 million can be a persons ego, pride, face saving, career and pension, family....

its still hard to imagine AC and Link chopping and burning up a body they found?
or a body they created..... often the blue protect their own, it could be, or was it truly a found car AC called in on the Nov 3 and it was a murder someone else did they wanted to pin on Steve, by chopping and burning and using the barrels to transport to the trailer back yard....

Zellners sure quiet. Something serious this way comes as they say in Harry Potter?

All ideal.
This murder is the perfect murder.
FOR MANITOWOC LE.

Damn I wish stuff like this would trundle down the road for me when crisis strikes.
Of course we studied coincidence in Dickens. But that was fiction. This baby is all fact.
What are those facts?
 
I guess theyre keeping edit cutting floor stuff from MAM1 for MAM2.
Nothing new leaking out?

silence before the storm ..as they say in Tornado alley.
 
not even a ruling release in Chicago.
slow legal systems are fine for those in mansions, waiting in prison another story.
 
not even a ruling release in Chicago.
slow legal systems are fine for those in mansions, waiting in prison another story.
Speaking from the tedious intermediary location....
My reading of prison lterature is that it is dangerous but can be stable.
Steven Avery may be OK, certainly not harrassed.
This is all a catastrophe for human rights of course.

JREF2010:

A universal theme is that no one ever apologises, expresses regret, is called to account.

I was struck once again by the Stephen Kichko case.
If you have the stomach, read this story. You may well know it, but read again for delectation...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed
 
no one apologizes, no one is fired, and in Steve Avery case if you sue they frame you for more crimes it seems.

read some reddit (which doesnt even have much new anything) and the phone deleted vm's, the RH lies on the stand..i wonder does anyone have RH DNA? or do they have to follow him around and grab a used straw or cup?
Zellner named two suspects in her opinion, she didnt include STadych and BoD the odd hunter story and lies its seems...

It seems the way Im understanding it Zellener believes RH (or the other guy) killed TH but then Colburn and Lenk chopped her up and burnt her remains then planted that by taking the barrels from the Avery property to the pit, filling the barrels then dumping that on Steves property while they had the place locked down (kind of locked down).

RH sneeking on the property and lying about his name on the list is highly suspicious. The roommate too was part of the search party. No one calling her in as missing for so long, especially RH who said he contacted her all the time.

Something that seems easy to solve is the harrassing/uncomfortable calls TH was receiving. The incoming number would be in her logsheet. Also checking RH phone calls outgoing for the same time would answer that question of "who was calling TH and freaking out on her?" Her coworker asked to help her as he could tell it disturbed her.
It doesnt prove murder but Im curious who it was. RH on the stand made it seem like everything was OK between him and TH. No mention of the disturbing phone calls and no mention of why he was on the Avery property with a fake name and no mention of helping Pam-of-blasphemy find the SUV on the search party.
Did RH own a 22 or gun?

Pete Baetz doesnt get enough time on MaM but hes one of my favorites of the true crime series.

“They must have filmed 50 hours of interviews of just me over the years,” he said. “They cut down my appearances in the film. I guess that’s not a ringing endorsement for my movie career.”

Baetz said one of the problems with Avery’s trial, in his mind, is that the judge prohibited the defense from pointing to other potential suspects.

“That’s just crazy — it’s used in cases all over,” he said. “We had people who we thought looked pretty good.”

In the film, Baetz criticizes the continued involvement of the Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department in the murder investigation, despite being advised by that county’s district attorney that other police agencies should handle the case.

“Well, the Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department decided to do it its own way, or at least a couple of people in the department did,” Baetz said.

Baetz argued that the Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department had a conflict of interest, due to Avery’s lawsuit, which ended up being settled for $450,000 after Avery’s murder arrest.

Also in the film, Baetz questions why no physical evidence or DNA from Halbach was found in Avery’s trailer or garage, except for the keychain and bullet.

“She was shot a number of times. There would be massive pools of blood. It wasn’t there,” Baetz told the interviewers.

He added: “Steven, I don’t believe, is capable of sanitizing that house. Very few evidence technicians would be capable of fully sanitizing an area like that. And they know what to hide and how to hide it. I don’t think Steven could do that.”


I wish he posted on here, Id bet he has a lot of interesting info.
 
No, I haven't read every post in this thread, but continue to check it out from time to time. And, I'm curious. Does anyone else other than me believe that Steve Avery is guilty?
 
No, I haven't read every post in this thread, but continue to check it out from time to time. And, I'm curious. Does anyone else other than me believe that Steve Avery is guilty?

No; I think he's probably guilty, too.

I just think much of the evidence was questionable and shouldn't have been allowed at trial, and that even if it wasn't the state failed to prove their case because it clearly didn't happen the way they claimed it did.
 
No, I haven't read every post in this thread, but continue to check it out from time to time. And, I'm curious. Does anyone else other than me believe that Steve Avery is guilty?

No; I think he's probably guilty, too.

I just think much of the evidence was questionable and shouldn't have been allowed at trial, and that even if it wasn't the state failed to prove their case because it clearly didn't happen the way they claimed it did.

I think he's guilty.
This would be unusual.

Defence lawyers speak out only when their researchers and their work convinces them their clients are innocent.

Jerry Buting states categorically that Steve is innocent.

“We do not and have never claimed that the police killed Teresa Halbach. In that respect, they have that in common with Steven Avery. However, the person or persons who did kill Teresa knew exactly who the police would really want to blame for this crime.”

Kathleen Zellner categorically states he is innocent.

In the local case I am dealing with, all defence attorneys in Mark Lundy state categorically that he is innocent, and know this to be the case.

It is disappointing to me to see scientists like Marplots succumb to these curious hoaxes.
 
Im watching MAM again.
Chapter 4.

theres a disturbing conversation between Brendan and his mom where he says he "did some of it", not FActbender and Weaslegart....his mom.

about 25minutes into it.

BRendan is mentally a retard. Its frustrating but he was going to school so he was somewhat a mess of a witness and interrogation chump.

but this conversation between him and his mom is disturbing.
 
It is disappointing to me to see scientists like Marplots succumb to these curious hoaxes.

You know the drill. Prove it.

Avery had his chance in court, he's had appeals. So far, he's guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Ball's in your court now.

I am happy to follow any developments. It's been ten years, any time soon would be good.
 
No, I haven't read every post in this thread, but continue to check it out from time to time. And, I'm curious. Does anyone else other than me believe that Steve Avery is guilty?

I think it is more likely than not that he is guilty. I think what they did to Brendan is a crime and they should be in prison for that interrogation. I also believe any evidence found while in the presence of Lenk and the other one should be inadmissible, even if it means a guilty man goes free. As a society, we should not tolerate even the appearance of impropriety with law enforcement.
 
You know the drill. Prove it.

Avery had his chance in court, he's had appeals. So far, he's guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Ball's in your court now.

I am happy to follow any developments. It's been ten years, any time soon would be good.
I am nonplussed by you marplots.
From time to time you appear to be a proper analyst of the world around you, yet here you ignore every post that begins and ends with science.

Why?

This is commonplace, I am seeing it in many of these murder cases.
If you accept that there are prosecutors who have charged people with crimes committed by others, it seems realistic to always start with the assumption that this may be another of those cases.
In the overwhelming majority that fear can be speedily laid to rest, but if that laying to rest is not speedy, the old pattern seems to recurr time and time again.

Certainly here, I would lay down my life in the certainty Steven Avery is innocent.
 
Certainly here, I would lay down my life in the certainty Steven Avery is innocent.

That's a pretty strong statement.

There have been plenty of oddball circumstances for sure. Plenty of questionable actions by those known to have conflicting interests, and plenty of allegations of misconduct.

But at the end of the day, a woman is still dead, and Avery is the last person known to have contact with her. That alone -never mind the blood and the bullet and the key and the bones...would lead me to conclude he is probably guilty.

"Probably" wouldn't be enough for me to vote him "guilty" in court. But the jury saw it differently, and I don't blame them. Now the onus is on his new defense team to show us what they think happened; then maybe I'll change my conclusion.
 
I am nonplussed by you marplots.
From time to time you appear to be a proper analyst of the world around you, yet here you ignore every post that begins and ends with science.

Why?

Appreciate the left-handed compliment, but I think we'd both agree that science isn't about certainty, especially in the venue of historical, one-off events.

This is commonplace, I am seeing it in many of these murder cases.
If you accept that there are prosecutors who have charged people with crimes committed by others, it seems realistic to always start with the assumption that this may be another of those cases.

I'm not sure I agree. Is it your contention that the rule holds (assume an error) based on some statistical analysis on the number of innocent convicted or is it, as I suspect, the specifics of this case which sway you?

We probably differ in that I do not go into the matter thinking the system is tainted or corrupt from the start. I don't think this can be assumed without proof. The mere existence of loose ends doesn't help. We do not need to explain everything to arrive at the conclusion Avery did it. But at this point, the onus is definitely on the defense, not the prosecution.

I'd suggest you pare away all the evidence you find doubtful and see what remains. If that is enough to convict, then none of the criticisms help. And frankly, "enough to convict" can be very little. Are you familiar with the case of Scott Peterson? Entirely circumstantial. And that's not even the strongest example of conviction without direct evidence or testimony.

Are you prepared to indict the criminal justice system generally, or only Avery's cause celeb?
 
OLDIE>...but Goldie... the wording is "confirm" as in completed, done, finished with outcome known.


Experts experiments confirm SA's trial attorneys correct about blood being planted but incorrect about how it was done.-Zellner


the silence is spellbinding. no word on arrest warrants issued for anyone new in TH's murder yet...
 
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