My sponsor didn't know what to do with a guy who wanted to die. It's cheating. You are supposed to drink and suffer a lot, then die. You aren't supposed to jump to the end like that. So telling me "just don't drink" was ineffective and put him at quite a loss of what to do.
Enter more shrinks and some mind drugs.
Send in the clowns with red noses!
Enter more shrinks and some mind drugs.
Send in the clowns with red noses!
Ahhhhh. Anti-depressants. Really messed me up.
The released me from the loony bin on Paxil.
Paxil was okay. Stopped the pain. Didn't stop the bad thoughts about offing myself in the slightest, though.
So the doc says let's try Zoloft then.
Zoloft. Next thing you know, I'm riding the front of roller coasters. Wheeeee! I was terrified of roller coasters. But not on Zoloft! Couldn't get enough of roller coasters.
Oh, and I threatened to murder my shrink. To his face. And said I could get away with it.
Here's what I said, exactly, "I could have broken into your house and murdered you in your sleep with an ax and had a perfect alibi!"
And some other stuff.
Maybe that's not exactly what I said. I think I might have said "you and your wife". Not sure.
On Zoloft, I was DEFINITELY insane. Had to be locked up again and taken off it immediately.
While I waited in the psych ward for it to wear off, I sat down and wrote 18 pages of handscrawled gibberish in one sitting.
Yeah. Good stuff. Zoloft. That's some higher power. The chemical solution. Woo hoo!
Wellebutrin? Almost as bad. Fortunately, I figured out what was happening before I went totally bonkers and alerted my doctor.
And that was to try and quit smoking, Wellebutrin was.
The released me from the loony bin on Paxil.
Paxil was okay. Stopped the pain. Didn't stop the bad thoughts about offing myself in the slightest, though.
So the doc says let's try Zoloft then.
Zoloft. Next thing you know, I'm riding the front of roller coasters. Wheeeee! I was terrified of roller coasters. But not on Zoloft! Couldn't get enough of roller coasters.
Oh, and I threatened to murder my shrink. To his face. And said I could get away with it.
Here's what I said, exactly, "I could have broken into your house and murdered you in your sleep with an ax and had a perfect alibi!"
And some other stuff.
Maybe that's not exactly what I said. I think I might have said "you and your wife". Not sure.
On Zoloft, I was DEFINITELY insane. Had to be locked up again and taken off it immediately.
While I waited in the psych ward for it to wear off, I sat down and wrote 18 pages of handscrawled gibberish in one sitting.
Yeah. Good stuff. Zoloft. That's some higher power. The chemical solution. Woo hoo!
Wellebutrin? Almost as bad. Fortunately, I figured out what was happening before I went totally bonkers and alerted my doctor.
And that was to try and quit smoking, Wellebutrin was.
Okay. I can't walk into a bar like most earthlings and drink half a drink and walk away from it.
A weakness.
That feels like humiliation.
It's not. It's humility. And that is all the difference in the world.
Like Dirty Harry said, "A man's got to know his limitations."
A weakness.
That feels like humiliation.
It's not. It's humility. And that is all the difference in the world.
Like Dirty Harry said, "A man's got to know his limitations."
edited.
The second time around, I did two things.
The first was service work. That's doing something that contributes to the world in some way but actually serves to help gain some perspective and to keep one sober.
I figured since I was in a pretty deep hole, I needed to do some heavy lifting. So I signed up to do AA meetings in jails and prisons.
As I have mentioned on this forum before, it is pretty hard to feel sorry for yourself when the teenaged prisoner next to you just said that he drove drunk and hit another car and killed a housewife and is looking at the next 25 years in prison.
Not that's some higher power! Of the "sucks to be you" variety.
The other thing I did was go to a men's meeting that was made up of other guys who did jail meetings who all had way more sobriety and lots and lots of what I wanted. These were solid, quiet men. Not one pseudo-Jesus in the bunch. Just guys who had been there, done it all, and lived to not talk much about it.
These guys reeked of peace of mind. Not storefront, magic crystal revelation, peace of mind. The real thing.
The second time around, I did two things.
The first was service work. That's doing something that contributes to the world in some way but actually serves to help gain some perspective and to keep one sober.
I figured since I was in a pretty deep hole, I needed to do some heavy lifting. So I signed up to do AA meetings in jails and prisons.
As I have mentioned on this forum before, it is pretty hard to feel sorry for yourself when the teenaged prisoner next to you just said that he drove drunk and hit another car and killed a housewife and is looking at the next 25 years in prison.
Not that's some higher power! Of the "sucks to be you" variety.
The other thing I did was go to a men's meeting that was made up of other guys who did jail meetings who all had way more sobriety and lots and lots of what I wanted. These were solid, quiet men. Not one pseudo-Jesus in the bunch. Just guys who had been there, done it all, and lived to not talk much about it.
These guys reeked of peace of mind. Not storefront, magic crystal revelation, peace of mind. The real thing.
Last edited:
slingblade
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The insult in the first quote, Huntster, was being called insane. Not the higher power part; the insanity part.
wolfgirl
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My former boss was a Buddhist who had been through AA. (He had gone against his will after some legal troubles related to his drinking. He never thought he was an alcoholic, but they assured him that he was, based on several different things.)
When they told him about the "higher power" bit, he argued that he didn't believe in a higher power. They told him it didn't have to be a god, that it could be whatever he wanted it to be. Didn't make sense to him, but he got on with it.
Decided early on that he didn't buy any of the "I'm an alcoholic, so I can never drink again" stuff. He felt like that was allowing the alcohol to control him instead of him controlling the alcohol (something for which I've always admired him). Last I saw him, he'd been out of the program for many, many years and was always, as long as I'd known him, able to drink socially and then stop.
I guess maybe he never really was an alcoholic, or maybe it's possible for some alcoholics to learn to control it. But it's certainly possible to quit drinking without a higher power. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it's more important that you accept the power within yourself than to give the power to an outside source. Give the control back to the drinker, instead of taking it away from them. But that's just me.
(My father was an alcoholic my whole childhood and never did quit. Haven't seen him in over 30 years. Don't know if he's alive or dead.)
You are going to hate Step Three.
I had a shipmate who drank more than I did who decided to quit drinking one day. And he did. Cold turkey.
Envy!
You need Alanon.
Kidding!
I had my last drink in May of 89. I was knocking back a fifth of vodka/day and 3 or 4 joints prior to that.
I finally found sobriety through AA. I don't believe in god so obviously I didn't believe any mythical being was going to remove my desire to drink.
What AA does provide though is support of other individuals who've learned how to live without alcohol.
God didn't help me....but a lot of other human beings did.
It's unfortunate that so many people use lack of belief in god as an excuse not to bother with AA. It MIGHT help--esp if one has a sincere desire to actually stop.
DangerousBeliefs
Graduate Poster
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- Aug 25, 2003
- Messages
- 1,299
Good for you Luke.
As an atheist and a son of alcoholics (still in denial), I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with any method to help alcoholics mantain or overcome their problem.
For those of you posting criticisms of AA, keep in mind that it's been around for 70+ years, it's voluntary, and there are alternatives. I would suggest that the success of AA has as much to do with group therapy and the buddy system as the 12 steps but that's just me.
(The only problem I have is if it's court imposed, which personally I feel is against the basic tenents of AA.)
I was in Al-Anon for a while (a group for children and relatives of alcoholics), and the two things I really took away from the group were:
1) I'm a normal person. My parents are not. You think this is simple? When I first started dating my wife, we went to her family for Thanksgiving. I thought her family was very strange until I realized it was because they weren't drinking and getting drunk. In fact, it was my wife who pulled me out of denial about my parents problems - I DID NOT KNOW.
2) You cannot change anything anyone does but yourself. You wouldn't believe how difficult this is to learn. I am responsible for me, myself, and I. I found a lot of my frustation and anger left me when I realized that it stems from my wanting to change my parents. With that came the realization that I would simply lie for them, which I immediately stopped doing. Stop me on the street and ask me why I don't call my mom more, without pause I would say because she's an angry drunk.
In fact, now that I think of it, Al-Anon may have been the moment I changed the way I look at the world. Once I learned that I'd been living in denial for so long, I learned about critical thinking. This lead to secular humanism, which is exactly the kind of spiritualism I need. I cannot change my parents, but I can make MY home a better place for MY children.
I'll amen that any day.
As an atheist and a son of alcoholics (still in denial), I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with any method to help alcoholics mantain or overcome their problem.
For those of you posting criticisms of AA, keep in mind that it's been around for 70+ years, it's voluntary, and there are alternatives. I would suggest that the success of AA has as much to do with group therapy and the buddy system as the 12 steps but that's just me.
(The only problem I have is if it's court imposed, which personally I feel is against the basic tenents of AA.)
I was in Al-Anon for a while (a group for children and relatives of alcoholics), and the two things I really took away from the group were:
1) I'm a normal person. My parents are not. You think this is simple? When I first started dating my wife, we went to her family for Thanksgiving. I thought her family was very strange until I realized it was because they weren't drinking and getting drunk. In fact, it was my wife who pulled me out of denial about my parents problems - I DID NOT KNOW.
2) You cannot change anything anyone does but yourself. You wouldn't believe how difficult this is to learn. I am responsible for me, myself, and I. I found a lot of my frustation and anger left me when I realized that it stems from my wanting to change my parents. With that came the realization that I would simply lie for them, which I immediately stopped doing. Stop me on the street and ask me why I don't call my mom more, without pause I would say because she's an angry drunk.
In fact, now that I think of it, Al-Anon may have been the moment I changed the way I look at the world. Once I learned that I'd been living in denial for so long, I learned about critical thinking. This lead to secular humanism, which is exactly the kind of spiritualism I need. I cannot change my parents, but I can make MY home a better place for MY children.
I'll amen that any day.
I also have a problem with that. What's the point of sending someone to AA if they don't want to be there?
There are some members of AA who refuse to sign the sheet such people bring with them to have signed to show they have been to AA meetings.
Yep. Very difficult to learn. And that's where the third step helps a lot.
Some people probably have a hard time understanding why that is a difficult thing for alcoholics and the victims of alcoholics to learn.
Alkies and their kin tend to be serious control freaks. Co-dependent like a mofo.
In that case, your friend rejected both the Higher Power as well as the "I'm an alcoholic" tenet. He was able to then muster the ability to control his drinking.
What I'm wondering is how one who rejects the "Higher Power" tenet can continue with the rest of the program successfully.
Can the other 11 points work without #3?
Yes. Most of the principles behind the twelve steps are just common sense principles for living right. Don't screw people over--when you screw up-own up to it & make amends as best you can....nothing really magical requiring divine intervention. Anybody-alcoholic or not-would probably benefit if they lived their lives by the steps.
I think the most important thing is a sincere desire to stop.
I also think that anybody who can "control" (drink moderately without getting drunk--not obsess over drugs.alcohol) is by definition not an alcoholic.
Alcoholics CAN go for long periods of time without drinking. It's a myth that alcholism involves a low level of will power. Some alcoholics-to prove they are in control-will exert that will power and abstain from alcohol for weeks or even months. The problem is--they're miserable. The desire to use and the obsession is still there. It's often referred to as "white-knuckling"..for good reason.
Yeah. I didn't even do 90 in 90 the first time around. It was more like 45 in 45 and then my ship was transferred to Norfolk, Virginia.
My newlywed wife attended a meeting or two in Norfolk and reported everybody was a bunch of snobs. But then, she was so Deep South that she thought Virginia was "Yankee Territory." I swear that's what she cried to her family and everyone who would listen when I told her we were moving from Mississippi to Virginia. "He's taking me to Yankee Territory!"
Um.
But anway, I took her at her word and did not attend any meetings in Norfolk, white-knuckling for another 18 months or so before I went back out.
When I drank after 19 months of sobriety, it was positively amazing how strongly the craving returned after that first drink.
Thus, the "blind drunk" I mentioned in Step One.