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Star and Black hole.

Ian

Unregistered
I
If a Big star is orbiting a smaller star and the smaller starts to expand and then starts to collapse and eventually forms a Black hole with the Bigger Star still orbiting it. The two stars could have been a binary star system. And after the star collapses the other star still orbits what's left of the other star which has become a black hole then what will happen? I have a hypothesis. The star that orbits the black hole will pore a whole lot of energy into it and then the black hole might light up. What does anyone think about this theory?
 
The hole itself won't light up. If the two stars are close enough the larger can pull material off of the surface of the smaller. As this mass drops into the black hole it will give off energy as its heated. This isn't restricted to black holes only. It can happen with any two (or more) sets of stars.
 
What Agammamon said- and actually this has been observed by astronomers, who detect the X-rays that are given off by the gas, and is a way of detecting black holes.

And note that the black hole itself can't "light up" since gravity is so strong that no light can escape from inside the event horizon.

Edited to add: Found this image from NASA showing the accretion disk formed in such a binary system. There's also an artist's representation here .
 
Black hole and star. What if the Star around the black hole explodes?

What would happen if the star in orbit around the black hole explodes?
 
The objects you're referring to are known as X-ray Binaries, because of the prodigious amount of X-rays that are emitted by the compact object's accretion disk (note: compact object can be either black hole or neutron star).

The compact object doesn't itself light up, but a large amount of energy is emitted by the material falling onto it, both in the form of X-rays and high energy jets emitted along the axis of the accretion disk.

Another quick note: A bigger star will evolve faster than a smaller star, so in such a binary system, the larger will evolve to a compact object first.
 
Re: Black hole and star. What if the Star around the black hole explodes?

Ian said:
What would happen if the star in orbit around the black hole explodes?

On the off chance that the binary survives to supernovae (ie does not become unbound) it is possible to have two compact objects orbiting each other. This leads to all sorts of interesting phenomenon, like two neutron stars or black holes merging, an occurence being looked for: LISA

An object of this sort has been recently found, two pulsars in a binary orbit:

Green Bank Telescope Discovery of Two Binary Millisecond Pulsars in the Globular Cluster M30
 
Ian said:
If a Big star is orbiting a smaller star and the smaller starts to expand and then starts to collapse and eventually forms a Black hole with the Bigger Star still orbiting it. The two stars could have been a binary star system. And after the star collapses the other star still orbits what's left of the other star which has become a black hole then what will happen? I have a hypothesis. The star that orbits the black hole will pore a whole lot of energy into it and then the black hole might light up. What does anyone think about this theory?

Um, wouldn't the larger star collapse first, with all of the throes expected?
 
Star pulling into black hole.

What would happen if the star pulled into the black hole?
 
Re: Star pulling into black hole.

Ian said:
What would happen if the star pulled into the black hole?

Suddenly?

Something very surprising would have happened to a great bloody lot of momentum.

It can happen over time, as radiation, etc, lower the momentum of the two objects.
 
Re: Re: Star and Black hole.

jj said:


Um, wouldn't the larger star collapse first, with all of the throes expected?

What makes you think the larger one should collapse first?
 
Re: Re: Re: Star and Black hole.

rockoon said:


What makes you think the larger one should collapse first?

Not done stalking, are you?

Before you proceed, I would suggest that you study the issue of star size vs. lifetime. The bigger the star, the SHORTER its lifecycle.

That's what everything I've ever seen on stellar evolution says. As it happens, yes, I have studied this quite a bit. I'd think that the fact would be extremely familiar to anyone who's bothered to look, too.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Star and Black hole.

Dancing David said:


The bigger they are the faster they fall?

Even though you were being sarcastic, in a sense, yes. The additional gravitation makes fusion proceed faster. The effect is quite pronounced, go to a page on stellar evolution and look at the lifecycle of a brown dwarf vs. a blue giant.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Star and Black hole.

jj said:


Not done stalking, are you?

Before you proceed, I would suggest that you study the issue of star size vs. lifetime. The bigger the star, the SHORTER its lifecycle.

That's what everything I've ever seen on stellar evolution says. As it happens, yes, I have studied this quite a bit. I'd think that the fact would be extremely familiar to anyone who's bothered to look, too.

What makes you think the stars formed at the same time? This was not stated or implied and is only a foolish assumption on your part. This foolish assumption lead to another case of your foot-in-mouth syndrome.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Star and Black hole.

rockoon said:
What makes you think the stars formed at the same time? This was not stated or implied and is only a foolish assumption on your part. This foolish assumption lead to another case of your foot-in-mouth syndrome.

Yep, still stalking.

I would suggest that you go back and learn what real stellar populations look like. The situation you suggest is extraordinarily unlikely. Not impossible, just extraordinarly unlikely.

As the original questioner did not speak, we aren't dealing with the very unlikely, it would seem.

So, ready to admit you are simply stalking me? And, furthermore, that you're being willfully disputatious to suggest such an utterly pathetic excuse for your attacks?

(edited to add)

Tell you what, Rockook, until you explain how you get two stars of radically different ages in close orbit, we'll just sign you off as somebody who doesn't get it.

When you figure out how that happens, then show us all some evidence about where such a binary pair exists.

After you have done your homework, maybe we can chat on at least a low level.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Star and Black hole.

jj said:


Yep, still stalking.

I would suggest that you go back and learn what real stellar populations look like. The situation you suggest is extraordinarily unlikely. Not impossible, just extraordinarly unlikely.

As the original questioner did not speak, we aren't dealing with the very unlikely, it would seem.

Excuse for my attacks?

A) I just asked a simple question.
B) You then attacked me.

That was the order of events.

I will repeat:

A) I asked a simple question.
B) You then attacked me.

Now lets correct your silly half-baked science ideas.

You have:

A) Assumed both stars formed at the same time. You have retracted this assumption. But you neglected to THINK, which leads to B:

B) Assumed both stars are at the same stage of their stellar evolutions (which is very similar to the first assumption but not exactly the same)

A red giant is pretty big - bigger than a neutron star - but one is further along in its stellar evolution - can you guess which one?

Now before you go off half-cocked saying how a neutron star can't collapse to a black hole.. I will spare you more grief.. because I'm such a nice guy..

A neutron star in close binary with a red giant.. it will be gaining mass at the expense of the red giant.. possibly enough mass to increase the density of the neutron star to beyond the swartzchild limit.

Thank you for A) Making assumptions. B) Attacking me. C) Making more assumptions, and finally D) Making this all possible.

Attack away...
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Star and Black hole.

rockoon said:


Excuse for my attacks?

A) I just asked a simple question.
B) You then attacked me.

Heh.

Your question was genuine? Really?

Reading the rest of your attack, that's pathetic.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Star and Black hole.

jj said:


Heh.

Your question was genuine? Really?


Yes, considering that the larger of the two will collapse to a black hole first would be a horrible assumption.

I thought that with you being a scientist.. that maybe you knew something I didn't..

..guess not.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Star and Black hole.

rockoon said:

A) Assumed both stars formed at the same time. You have retracted this assumption. But you neglected to THINK, which leads to B:



Stop lying. I have retracted nothing. Saying "the chance they aren't the same age is very very small" is not a retraction, it is a summary of the most likely actual situation.

I have "retracted" nothing.



B) Assumed both stars are at the same stage of their stellar evolutions (which is very similar to the first assumption but not exactly the same)



I have done nothing of the sort. If they start as different sizes by any substantial margin, they can NOT be at the same stage in stellar evolution. If they are different initial sizes by any substantial amount, and they are at the same stage of evolution, they can not be the same age. We've discussed already how that is incredibly unlikely.

A red giant is pretty big - bigger than a neutron star - but one is further along in its stellar evolution - can you guess which one?


Out of context of the original question. True on its own, but not in context of the question that I was answering, and you demonstrate that you know that by your original act of stalking in this thread.

The neutron star is the REMAINS of a large star, and is the one farther along. The original question started with a large and a small star, both *uncollapsed.* Your question is, as you are so prone to, OUT OF THE SCOPE OF THE ORIGINAL QUESTION.

Stop trying to mislead the reader by changing the scope of the question.

This scenario is misleading on your part, the original question said:
If a Big star is orbiting a smaller star and the smaller starts to expand and then starts to collapse and eventually forms a Black hole with the Bigger Star still orbiting it.

The smaller star is NOT a neutron star in the original question, and that's all there is to it, because it hasn't, at the start of the question, "expand"ed, yet, etc.

So, in the ORIGINAL QUESTION, which you have, as is your want, ignored, the situation can NOT be a neutron star at the start of the question.

At the start of the question, we start with a large star and a small star, and the question askes about the SMALL star expanding and collapsing, BEFORE the large star. This is incredibly unlikely. Not impossible (nor have I said that it was) but incredibly unlikely.

Not, I'm sure, given the size of the universe, impossible, but very, very unlikely. One of the stars would have to have been captured in order for that to happen.

If such happened, then the two stars would not be the same age, or we would still see a "usual" situation. That's why this is so unlikely, we would need different population stars, or close to it, to create such an unusual situation.

A neutron star in close binary with a red giant.. it will be gaining mass at the expense of the red giant.. possibly enough mass to increase the density of the neutron star to beyond the swartzchild limit.


Irrelevant to the original question asked in this thread.

Possible, indeed, but irrelevant to the question asked in this thread.


Thank you for A) Making assumptions. B) Attacking me. C) Making more assumptions, and finally D) Making this all possible.

Attack away...

Once again, you cheat by escaping from the original context. Just as you cheated by removing my words from the original context in the draft threads, you have attempted to shift the question here, in an attempt to make it appears as though I have said something I have not.

Once again, the original question:
If a Big star is orbiting a smaller star and the smaller starts to expand and then starts to collapse and eventually forms a Black hole with the Bigger Star still orbiting it.

As the original question is phrased, with the smaller first expanding and then collapsing, we can see that the smaller was not (since it was not initially collapsed) a neutron star. You could argue about "collapse" meaning from neutron star to black hole, except that is precluded by the original questioner's next sentence "eventually forms...", making it clear that the original questioner thinks there are steps along the way to the black hole, leaving us, with standard present cosmology at least, at a neutron star oinly AFTER the "expansion" and initial part of the "collapse"

Your original statement of "what makes you think the bigger one should collapse first' shows full well that you were aware that neither star had "collapsed" at the beginning, ergo you can claim neither ignorance nor accident in your misrepresentations down the line.

In short, therefore, you knew, or should have known, that the question in context, the I was answering, started with two normal, pre-burnout stars. As you did, or should have, know that, your introduction of a neutron star as a representation of the question BEING ANSWERED is entirely specious.

Your actions constitute misrepresentation of the original claim, extraction of both question and answer from context, and introduction of cirumstances not in the original question, intended to imply a mistake where none was made.

This was all part of your stalking activity.

Cease and desist.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Star and Black hole.

rockoon said:


Yes, considering that the larger of the two will collapse to a black hole first would be a horrible assumption.


Of course, again you attempt to restate what I said in a different, misleading form (that's not what I said), and out of context.

In this question, we know that we are starting with two normal (modulo their size) stars.
 

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