Stand Your Ground Florida, Stand Your Ground

[Dr. Keith]

when opinions become facts, folks.

You reported it as a fact. I am relying on your report that the attacker was stopped because the gun was drawn. That is your fact, not mine.

Do I need to quote you again?

 

[Meadmaker]

He WAS attacked, there is no question about that. The response from the shover's fans is the the initial victim should have realized that the attacked had ceased, which is totally inconsistent with how people naturally respond to attacks like this.

Nonsense.

 

[sadhatter]

Unarmed attackers would generally be non lethal. I mean, sure, they might beat you to death with their bare hands. Super Ninjas on crack or what have you. Are you suggesting that all assaults should be treated as deadly, just to be safe? You know where that argument leads.

Do you realize that physical combat outside of very controlled circumstances is very dangerous? Why do you think even in the ufc there are many, many restrictions. The myth of the "good old dust up" is just that, it ignores the many people with permanent injuries or even fatal ones in favor of the " barroom hero" with a permanently squished nose and some wonky knuckles.

I could get you in touch with a friend of mine who has a colostomy bag now because the good old dust up didn't stop when it should. Shouldn't he have been able to stop that? Or is it just the law of the jungle? If you are big you get away with more?

 

[sadhatter]

Have you seriously never been shoved? At a bar or party or wherever? I've had drunks swing at me more than a few times, and its just not life or death ( or reasonably in fear of imminent serious bodily injury, to satisfy the anal retentiveamong us).

I guess it would fall on deaf ears to remind you of a parable involving turning the other cheek?

You must be a better ninja than your profile pic. In the real world **** gets nasty, but God like fighters like yourself have nothing to worry about I guess.

 

[sadhatter]

I think that everyone who carries a gun is a potential deadly threat.

Especially in the USA where in many cases people are not properly vetted and checked to ensure they are suitable to have a gun.

And unarmed people are not? Do people not know how to fight where you are from? Or use environmental weapons?

 

[tyr_13]

Being pushed to the ground might (rarely) be lethal.

However, on top of all the other reasons already stated, it was not a lethal threat here because, shocker, the murderer didn't die from his fall. He had the benefit of hindsight to know the attack was not lethal. (If he had died, he would not have the benefit of hindsight, just to be complete here.)

 

[This is The End]

This was a blind side attacks that left the victim sprawled on the concrete. Not a bar, not a party, not a drunk.

Blown away how people refuse to deal with the facts.

Most people aren't dumb. They know the difference between made up (and loaded) adjectives and facts.

 

[This is The End]

A couple updates:

Not only do Republican Florida Legislators say the Sheriff was incorrect, even the ******* NRA says the Sheriff was incorrect.

Legislators Say Sheriff Who Declined to Arrest Michael Drejka for Killing Markeis McGlockton Is Misrepresenting Florida's 'Stand Your Ground' Law

Several prominent Florida Republicans have criticized Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri's misrepresentation of that state's Stand Your Ground self-defense law in connection with the July 19 shooting of Markeis McGlockton. Three key legislators who had a hand in writing the law and the National Rifle Association lobbyist who helped get it passed told Politico that Gualtieri was simply wrong when he claimed the standard for using lethal force is "largely subjective."

At a press conference the day after the shooting, Gualtieri conceded that brandishing the gun "probably" would have sufficed to protect Drejka from further attack. But Gualtieri insisted that Florida's law prevented him from making an arrest, because "Stand Your Ground allows for a subjective belief by the person that they are in harm's way," and "we don't get to substitute our judgment for Drejka's judgment."

Not so, says the NRA's Marion Hammer, who lobbied Florida legislators to pass the Stand Your Ground law in 2005 and strengthen its protections for defendants in 2017. "Nothing in either the 2005 law or the 2017 law prohibits a Sheriff from making an arrest in a case where a person claims self-defense if there is probable cause that the use of force was unlawful," Hammer told Politico.

https://reason.com/blog/2018/07/30/authors-of-floridas-stand-your-ground-la

 

[This is The End]

And then:

Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri says his agency is still investigating the controversial deadly shooting of a man outside a Clearwater convenience store and he believes the case could be turned over to the State Attorney’s Office this week.

https://www.wfla.com/news/pinellas-...-clearwater-stand-your-ground-case/1336313854

 

[Foolmewunz]

A couple updates:

Not only do Republican Florida Legislators say the Sheriff was incorrect, even the ******* NRA says the Sheriff was incorrect.








https://reason.com/blog/2018/07/30/authors-of-floridas-stand-your-ground-la

Fake News. Who are these guys? A bunch of legislators who wrote the law(s) and some experts on firearms? That doesn't hold up to ISF Invent-a-fact!

We have The Big Dog who's sufficiently opinio-splained it for us.

 

[This is The End]

How funny would it be if Trump tweeted that he also thinks the Sheriff was incorrect?

 

[Thermal]

Do you realize that physical combat outside of very controlled circumstances is very dangerous? Why do you think even in the ufc there are many, many restrictions. The myth of the "good old dust up" is just that, it ignores the many people with permanent injuries or even fatal ones in favor of the " barroom hero" with a permanently squished nose and some wonky knuckles.

I could get you in touch with a friend of mine who has a colostomy bag now because the good old dust up didn't stop when it should. Shouldn't he have been able to stop that? Or is it just the law of the jungle? If you are big you get away with more?

You must be a better ninja than your profile pic. In the real world **** gets nasty, but God like fighters like yourself have nothing to worry about I guess.

Reading Comprehension: Not Even Once

 

[Nessie]

And unarmed people are not? Do people not know how to fight where you are from? Or use environmental weapons?

Unarmed people do not pose anything like the risk armed people do. People with other weapons come somewhere in between.

Did you not know gun shot wounds are more likely to kill than stabs, punches and pushes?

 

[Mumbles]

A couple updates:

Not only do Republican Florida Legislators say the Sheriff was incorrect, even the ******* NRA says the Sheriff was incorrect.


https://reason.com/blog/2018/07/30/authors-of-floridas-stand-your-ground-la

Saw that one before as well - the GOP was all "That's not what we meant", until Obama offered mild sympathy for the family, at which point they mostly settled on "Martin was going to World Star Stomp him a thug who would bash his head open!" last time this hit the news in a similar situation. And they never actually did anything to clarify the law apart from expanding it, of course.

I'll wait before giving them the slightest credit.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Do you realize that physical combat outside of very controlled circumstances is very dangerous? Why do you think even in the ufc there are many, many restrictions. The myth of the "good old dust up" is just that, it ignores the many people with permanent injuries or even fatal ones in favor of the " barroom hero" with a permanently squished nose and some wonky knuckles.

I could get you in touch with a friend of mine who has a colostomy bag now because the good old dust up didn't stop when it should. Shouldn't he have been able to stop that? Or is it just the law of the jungle? If you are big you get away with more?

Which is why instead of confronting him to defend his girlfriend the appropriate solution would be so shoot first.

An armed society is a polite society after all and he was failing at politeness. So in a properly armed society he would have been the one dead.

 

[TJM]

Most people aren't dumb. They know the difference between made up (and loaded) adjectives and facts.

Well I happen to agree with TBD in regard to the blinside hit. Notice I didn't say shove. If you take the attached video and run it at quarter speed it reveals a couple things -

McGlockton lowers his shoulders, lunges into Drejka and applies the hit. He continues to approach Drejka as he tumbles. There is no doubt that it was it was a vicious hit. If that's somebody's idea of a "schoolyard shove" then remind me to steer clear of that school.

BUT -

McGlockton and the man in the foreground do not disengage because Drejka raised his firearm. They disengage because Drejka reaches for his holster. That's even more damning for Drejka. Both men appear to be backing off before the firearm even left the holster.

Contrary to what I posted earlier, Drejka should be sitting in a jail cell. Period.

 

[Ziggurat]

A couple updates:

Not only do Republican Florida Legislators say the Sheriff was incorrect, even the ******* NRA says the Sheriff was incorrect.

This doesn't surprise me at all. I had a link on page 1 from a self defense law expert detailing why the Sheriff was wrong.

 

[Dr. Keith]

You reported it as a fact. I am relying on your report that the attacker was stopped because the gun was drawn. That is your fact, not mine.

Do I need to quote you again?

McGlockton and the man in the foreground do not disengage because Drejka raised his firearm. They disengage because Drejka reaches for his holster. That's even more damning for Drejka. Both men appear to be backing off before the firearm even left the holster.

Contrary to what I posted earlier, Drejka should be sitting in a jail cell. Period.

I guess I can't rely on TBD as a factual reporter. It does seem like the attack was stopped prior to the actual drawing of the firearm. In his defense though, it was clearly stopped by the time the gun was drawn, so he was right in that regard.

Thanks for clarifying the specific order of actions.

 

[Thermal]

Well I happen to agree with TBD in regard to the blinside hit. Notice I didn't say shove. If you take the attached video and run it at quarter speed it reveals a couple things -

McGlockton lowers his shoulders, lunges into Drejka and applies the hit. He continues to approach Drejka as he tumbles. There is no doubt that it was it was a vicious hit. If that's somebody's idea of a "schoolyard shove" then remind me to steer clear of that school.

I believe I introduced the term schoolyard shove, so a quick clarification:
In mechanics and, I believe, intent, it was a schoolyard or barroom shove. Open hands forcefully struck at chest as a dominance or knock down move. Mc Glocklin walked up to deliver it, and pretty damned slowly. He was no schoolboy, so I'm sure it was hella powerful, but it was no attacking move. Strategically, it makes no sense to push your victim down and away from you.

Your video shows pretty clearly that they are squarelyface to face. This just isn't a blindside. Blindside is the side that you are blind on. Drejka may have been distracted and didn't see the casual strolling approach, but face to face is not a blind side.

BUT -

McGlockton and the man in the foreground do not disengage because Drejka raised his firearm. They disengage because Drejka reaches for his holster. That's even more damning for Drejka. Both men appear to be backing off before the firearm even left the holster.

Contrary to what I posted earlier, Drejka should be sitting in a jail cell. Period.

Spot on.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I believe I introduced the term schoolyard shove, so a quick clarification:
In mechanics and, I believe, intent, it was a schoolyard or barroom shove. Open hands forcefully struck at chest as a dominance or knock down move. Mc Glocklin walked up to deliver it, and pretty damned slowly. He was no schoolboy, so I'm sure it was hella powerful, but it was no attacking move. Strategically, it makes no sense to push your victim down and away from you.

Your video shows pretty clearly that they are squarelyface to face. This just isn't a blindside. Blindside is the side that you are blind on. Drejka may have been distracted and didn't see the casual strolling approach, but face to face is not a blind side.

I would posit that the below makes the above moot.

Spot on.