[Split]When are you white?

[CFLarsen]

You seem to believe "segregation" is something other than what it is. There are numerous on-line dictionaries that can help you with this, if you wish to relieve your ignorance.

After that, perhaps you will no longer need to dodge the question put to you?

That's not an explanation. You just tell me that I am wrong. You don't explain why I am wrong.

Why am I wrong?

This may seem simplistic but, if affirmative action gets a qualified non-white person a job( or a scholarship )in an all-white establishment, how is that segregation? It's the dismantling of defacto segregation.

Segregation can only be "white vs. everyone else"?

What do you mean, an "all-white" establishment?

 

[Mycroft]

That's not an explanation. You just tell me that I am wrong. You don't explain why I am wrong.

Why am I wrong?

Your claim is that affirmative action causes segregation when it's a policy specifically designed to eliminate segregation. When asked multiple times to explain how, you refuses. Instead, you choose to ask cryptic questions that cast doubt on if you even understand what the word means.

You’re the one making the outrageous claim. Explain yourself or admit you can’t.

 

[CFLarsen]

Your claim is that affirmative action causes segregation when it's a policy specifically designed to eliminate segregation. When asked multiple times to explain how, you refuses. Instead, you choose to ask cryptic questions that cast doubt on if you even understand what the word means.

You’re the one making the outrageous claim. Explain yourself or admit you can’t.

I have explained as best as I can. But you continue to say I am wrong, yet you refuse to explain why.

There is only one stopping this discussion from moving forward and that is you.

 

[Mycroft]

I have explained as best as I can. But you continue to say I am wrong, yet you refuse to explain why.

What you have not explained is:

1) If you understand what the word "segregate" means.

2) How affirmative action segregates people.

There is only one stopping this discussion from moving forward and that is you.

Stop dodging and answer the questions.

 

[CFLarsen]

What you have not explained is:

1) If you understand what the word "segregate" means.

2) How affirmative action segregates people.

Stop dodging and answer the questions.

I'm not dodging. I've explained what my stance on Affirmative Action is, and how I think it segregates people.

You keep claiming that I am wrong, but when I ask you to explain why I am wrong, you refuse.

How do we progress? Unless you can explain why I am wrong, I really don't see any reason to continue.

 

[Mycroft]

I'm not dodging. I've explained what my stance on Affirmative Action is, and how I think it segregates people.

You keep claiming that I am wrong, but when I ask you to explain why I am wrong, you refuse.

How do we progress? Unless you can explain why I am wrong, I really don't see any reason to continue.

I have reviewed the thread and see no explanation.

I can only conclude that either you have no desire or are unable to make yourself understood, or perhaps your entire participation in this thread was merely a joke that only you understand.

I agree. Unless you can explain your views, further discussion is futile.

 

[CFLarsen]

I have explained, yet you refuse to acknowledge this. I don't see any solutions from you. I am not the one stopping this discussion, you are.

There's no reason to continue.

 

[Mycroft]

I have explained, yet you refuse to acknowledge this. I don't see any solutions from you. I am not the one stopping this discussion, you are.

There's no reason to continue.

If you insist that you have explained your views yet no explanation can be found, perhaps you need to repeat your explanation?

 

[CFLarsen]

If you insist that you have explained your views yet no explanation can be found, perhaps you need to repeat your explanation?

I am not going to argue whether you think I have explained why I think Affirmative Action is racial segregation or not. You can accept my explanation, or you can not. But to claim I have never given it, is a lie:

Let's say your job is to give college grants. You have two applicants before you, one white, one black. With Affirmative Action, you can legally choose the black over the white, solely because he is black.

How is that not segregating people based on their race?

That was about 2 hours ago. Yet, you claim I never gave such an explanation. That is a lie.

When you resort to lying, that tells me that you are not here to discuss Affirmative Action, but to pick a fight.

Have a nice day.

 

[Mycroft]

I am not going to argue whether you think I have explained why I think Affirmative Action is racial segregation or not. You can accept my explanation, or you can not. But to claim I have never given it, is a lie:



That was about 2 hours ago. Yet, you claim I never gave such an explanation. That is a lie.

When you resort to lying, that tells me that you are not here to discuss Affirmative Action, but to pick a fight.

Have a nice day.

That is not an explanation. That is a hypothetical situation followed by a question that presumes the very thing being disputed.

It might pass as an explanation if we could examine your hypothetical and see that the obvious result would be that blacks and whites would end up segregated from one another, but that's not at all a logical conclusion from your hypothetical scenario. Instead, when examining the hypothetical, I conclude that both black and white people would go to college together and be intigrated, and wonder if you even know what segregated means.

So, will you explain yourself or not?

 

[CFLarsen]

Are you dictating how I must explain myself?

 

[HarryKeogh]

Let's say your job is to give college grants. You have two applicants before you, one white, one black. With Affirmative Action, you can legally choose the black over the white, solely because he is black.

How is that not segregating people based on their race?

"How is that not discriminating againt people based on their race?" would be a more accurate statement as segregation generally means (according to dictionary.com) "to separate or set apart from others or from the main body or group; isolate". So when you bring a black person into a white group that's hardly segregating but can certainly be argued it's discriminating against the white person who isn't given the college grant in your example.

 

[CFLarsen]

"How is that not discriminating againt people based on their race?" would be a more accurate statement as segregation generally means (according to dictionary.com) "to separate or set apart from others or from the main body or group; isolate". So when you bring a black person into a white group that's hardly segregating but can certainly be argued it's discriminating against the white person who isn't given the college grant in your example.

When you segregate, you set apart from the general mass. With Affirmative Action, you pluck from a general mass of applicants (I'm talking about the example of college grants and who gets them) and give grants to people based on the color of their skin.

You can also call it discrimination, if you like. Whatever term you use, it still is racism.

 

[Mycroft]

Are you dictating how I must explain myself?

Not at all.

Any manner you choose in which you are understood is sufficient.

 

[CFLarsen]

Not at all.

Any manner you choose in which you are understood is sufficient.

Indeed. Which is why I ask what it is you don't understand.

I keep asking you this, but you refuse to explain.

What is it you don't understand, Mycroft?

 

[HarryKeogh]

You can also call it discrimination, if you like.

I prefer to use the correct terms so yes...I like.

Whatever term you use, it still is racism

Maybe. Many definitions of racism include a "belief in one race being superior over another" component and I don't believe many proponents of affirmative action believe that to be so. They generally believe it's to level the playing field because of racism in society and economic and educational advantages whites have over minorities (from Wikipedia:
Affirmative action began as a corrective measure for governmental and social injustices against demographic groups that have been subjected to prejudice.)

Some people believe AA is racist. Some don't. Your pronouncement that it's racism doesn't make it universally so. It seems to be a matter of opinion.

 

[CFLarsen]

Maybe. Many definitions of racism include a "belief in one race being superior over another" component and I don't believe many proponents of affirmative action believe that to be so. They generally believe it's to level the playing field because of racism in society and economic and educational advantages whites have over minorities (from Wikipedia:
Affirmative action began as a corrective measure for governmental and social injustices against demographic groups that have been subjected to prejudice.)

Some people believe AA is racist. Some don't. Your pronouncement that it's racism doesn't make it universally so. It seems to be a matter of opinion.

Perhaps. If a black person is chosen before a white person, solely because he is black, how can this not be racism?

 

[HarryKeogh]

Perhaps. If a black person is chosen before a white person, solely because he is black, how can this not be racism?

What definition of racism are you using? Depending on the definition I may very well agree with you.

 

[LostAngeles]

When you segregate, you set apart from the general mass. With Affirmative Action, you pluck from a general mass of applicants (I'm talking about the example of college grants and who gets them) and give grants to people based on the color of their skin.

You can also call it discrimination, if you like. Whatever term you use, it still is racism.

Larsen baby, you're a dear, but you just showed that you were using, "segregation," incorrectly. "Discrimination," would be the word you wanted. Don't fight about that with Mycroft. It distracts from the issues at hand. It's not a bad thing if you use a bad word so long as you correct yourself.

In other news, your response to Huntster is correct. If Huntster needs people to tell s/he what s/he is, then it's inane.

 

[Beleth]

In other news, your response to Huntster is correct. If Huntster needs people to tell s/he what s/he is, then it's inane.

ARRGH I don't believe I'm posting to this thread again.

LA, you know I respect you. And saying that you have more experience with race relations than I do couldn't possibly be overstated.

But in reality, it is other people who decide what ethnicity you are.


First of all, trivially, your parents decide what ethnicity you are by conceiving you in the first place.

Second, in terms of things like Affirmative Action, society determines what ethnicity you are. Hypothetical to show my point: You've seen me. I'm as Irish as the driven snow. Say I wanted to go back to school. I want to get a scholarship or something so wherever I was asked what race I was I put "African-American". Would I get any scholarship? Of course not. The people who determine such things would take one look at me... and either bust out laughing, or get outraged that I would even dare to consider checking the African-American box.


In a perfect world we would not need Affirmative Action.
We don't live in such a world.
Ethnicity gets in the way of things when it should not.
People who want to be fair sometimes have no other choice but to invent an imperfection to cancel out another imperfection.
Yes, it's suboptimal...
but sometimes the best you can come to a right really is two wrongs.