Split thread: Does the Bible speak out against slavery?

DOC said:
He who pampers his slave from childhood Will in the end find him to be a son. (Proverbs 29:21) New American Standard Bible


He that delicately bringeth up his servant from a child shall have him become [his] son at the length. (Proverbs 29:21) KJV
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So you've gone from "the Bible doesn't condone slavery" to "the Bible says to be nice to your slaves".

Thread over.
 
Foster Zygote said:
So you've gone from "the Bible doesn't condone slavery" to "the Bible says to be nice to your slaves".

Thread over.
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Foster Zygote winz Teh Intertubes! Please go to your nearest tubestore to collect your prize.
 
DOC said:
Well He did say Love your neighbor as yourself, and Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Basically that's a way of saying slavery is wrong without getting killed immediately by the Roman authorities.
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I noticed that you avoided the more difficult comment from earlier.
Allow me to repeat it:
I do not think you have fully thought through the implications of your argument. If it is true, than it is also likely that god may also want us to be vegetarian, permit women to be priests, allow gays to marry, permit 1st/2nd trimester abortions, say that jesus isn't the only way, that premaritial sex is ok... All of these things can be claimed to be things that "we cannot bear" just yet. And it doesn't matter if the bible outright denies these things, becuase it could simply be because society at the time couldn't accept such truths.
 
DOC said:
Well He did say Love your neighbor as yourself, and Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Basically that's a way of saying slavery is wrong without getting killed immediately by the Roman authorities.
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So Jesus blurred his views on slavery to save his own skin? With the effect that his followers needed 1800 years and the influence from secular philosophy to finally get it?
 
Looks like yet another Fail for the Bible as source of positive morality.

Don't you get it? The God of Abraham IS Satan, and has deceived all the Christians with his wickedness by claiming to be God.

(Wow! It feels strange to talk that way...)


Win Powerball!!
 
Well, who the frock cares?

Slavery is WRONG......if I were a slave, I would die changing that issue.

that being said, the bible is a nice fictional piece, what did "Harry Potter" say
about the matter?

Idiot (DOC that is)
 
scratchy said:
So Jesus blurred his views on slavery to save his own skin? With the effect that his followers needed 1800 years and the influence from secular philosophy to finally get it?
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Frankly, even on occasions when the message was delivered to his followers in no uncertain terms, it didn't really stop them from doing what they wanted to do anyway. Heck, many still don't seem to have gotten the Golden Rule in a whole host of contexts. In fairness, some - even many - of them "got it" regarding slavery much earlier than others. I'm not sure what you have in mind when you refer to "secular" philosophy (see, e.g., Jeremy Waldron's excellent God, Locke, and Equality: Christian Foundations in Locke's Political Thought (Cambridge UP 2002)).
 
scratchy said:
So Jesus blurred his views on slavery to save his own skin? With the effect that his followers needed 1800 years and the influence from secular philosophy to finally get it?
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Great Point.:)


We could say the same thing about the Divine right of Kings doctrine too. Recall how the character Jesus and his followers never disputed Roman rule.


As far as I can tell, the character Jesus was more interested in the "afterlife" than in changing the world we live in now. Slavery and Kings were just fine, so long as everyone followed him. The ultimate answer to all the world's suffering would only come when the world actually ends, democratic ideals notwithstanding.

It's no wonder medieval European kings liked Christianity.
 
ceo_esq said:
Frankly, even on occasions when the message was delivered to his followers in no uncertain terms, it didn't really stop them from doing what they wanted to do anyway. Heck, many still don't seem to have gotten the Golden Rule in a whole host of contexts. In fairness, some - even many - of them "got it" regarding slavery much earlier than others. I'm not sure what you have in mind when you refer to "secular" philosophy (see, e.g., Jeremy Waldron's excellent God, Locke, and Equality: Christian Foundations in Locke's Political Thought (Cambridge UP 2002)).
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The Papal encyclical you have cited is interesting. I did not know about it until you shared it with us. But it still dates back only to 1537.

Going back to what the original church believed and what the character Jesus is reported to have said, I still don't see any evidence that they wanted to change the structure of society. It seems their biggest concern was about heaven and hell.
 
XBoxWarrior said:
Well, who the frock cares?

Slavery is WRONG......if I were a slave, I would die changing that issue.

that being said, the bible is a nice fictional piece, what did "Harry Potter" say
about the matter?

Idiot (DOC that is)
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HEY!!!! Don't call DOC an idiot. That's an insult to all of us legitimate idiots. He's a moron, at best. Or, as I prefer, jackass.
 
I don't see how "treat your slaves well" translates into "slavery is bad."

Surely "treat your slaves well" means "slavery is okay as long as you treat your slaves well."
 
Dear DOC,

Maybe you could answer a couple of questions re slavery, that were first posed to another 'Dr', back in 2004 or thereabouts, and have yet to be addressed

  • I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
  • Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Samoans, but not Australians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Australians?
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
 
six7s said:
Dear DOC,

Maybe you could answer a couple of questions re slavery, that were first posed to another 'Dr', back in 2004 or thereabouts, and have yet to be addressed

  • I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
  • Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Samoans, but not Australians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Australians?
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
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Nominated for the sheer shooting fish in a barrel (near-pith).

Combined with the mountain of evidence from H3LL et al, a fine demolition, but you took it to its (il)logical conclusion...
 
jimbob said:
Nominated for the sheer shooting fish in a barrel (near-pith).

Combined with the mountain of evidence from H3LL et al, a fine demolition, but you took it to its (il)logical conclusion...
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Sorry. It's copied. He even posted the link. Read the original if you haven't though. It's hilarious.
 
DOC said:
Well He did say Love your neighbor as yourself, and Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Basically that's a way of saying slavery is wrong without getting killed immediately by the Roman authorities.
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Actually, Jesus would have been brought before the Jewish authorities as a dangerous radical. Jews owned slaves. Parthians owned slaves. Gauls, Germans, Chinese, Indians, every society had a slave class. It would have been an unquestioned fact of life to the early Christians, and to Jesus.

"Do unto others" can as easily be read as "treat your betters with respect, just as you would have your inferiors treat you".

As Gregoire mentioned, Christianity was not a revolutionary movement. The "Give unto Caesar" passage makes that very clear. (Which goes to show that the gospel-writers could be clear when they wanted to be.)
 
CapelDodger said:
Actually, Jesus would have been brought before the Jewish authorities as a dangerous radical. Jews owned slaves. Parthians owned slaves. Gauls, Germans, Chinese, Indians, every society had a slave class. It would have been an unquestioned fact of life to the early Christians, and to Jesus.

"Do unto others" can as easily be read as "treat your betters with respect, just as you would have your inferiors treat you".

As Gregoire mentioned, Christianity was not a revolutionary movement. The "Give unto Caesar" passage makes that very clear. (Which goes to show that the gospel-writers could be clear when they wanted to be.)
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Someone here has a quote of Carl Sagan regarding the Library of Alexandria as a sig line: "The permanence of the stars was questioned, the justice of slavery was not."
 
Some metathinking: The Bible was written by people who thought slavery was considered perfectly fine. Given this, it seems very strange that it'd oppose slavery. It's as if I, an opponent of slavery, should write a book in its defense.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Some metathinking: The Bible was written by people who thought slavery was considered perfectly fine. Given this, it seems very strange that it'd oppose slavery. It's as if I, an opponent of slavery, should write a book in its defense.
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Like Docky, whatever sells the product.
 
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