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[Split]Moon hoaxes - split from: Mars Voyage too Soon?

I think it could be as I alluded to earlier - the technological obstacles differentiating Earth orbital or lunar expeditions from inter-planetary are poles apart, and the upside of a Mars expedition is extremely difficult to justify in the context of those obstacles, the inherent risks (the two being related, of course) and the cost.



It's just a book refuting the Apollo manned moon landings, that's all.

So were you convinced by the book? There was a program recently on TV in which all the objections in reference to the moon landing's authenticity were examined and explanations offered which seemed convincing. Things like the supposedly impossible angle of shadows cast by the ship and the astronauts, the seemingly fluttering flag in the lunar vacuum, the objections concerning the Van Allen Radiation belts, and so forth.
 
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So were you convinced by the book? There was a program recently on TV in which all the objections in reference to the moon landing's authenticity were examined and explanations offered which seemed convincing. Things like the supposedly impossible angle of shadows cast by the ship and the astronauts, the seemingly fluttering flag in the lunar vacuum, the objections concerning the Van Allen Radiation belts, and so forth.

Of course they were faked - this link proves it!
http://stuffucanuse.com/fake_moon_landings/moon_landings.htm

:rolleyes:
 
So were you convinced by the book? There was a program recently on TV in which all the objections in reference to the moon landing's authenticity were examined and explanations offered which seemed convincing. Things like the supposedly impossible angle of shadows cast by the ship and the astronauts, the seemingly fluttering flag in the lunar vacuum, the objections concerning the Van Allen Radiation belts, and so forth.

I bought the book many years ago and enjoyed reading it. I thought it raised many interesting points, and presented the analysis very well in places. I've seen the TV programme that you refer to, and I've perused a few websites subsequently that refute many of the allegations in the book, and I have to say that most of them offer very superficial rebuttals based on far less analysis than is generally presented in the book. I think there are a number of allegations made in the book, and examples of points made, that have not satisfactorily been shown to be wrong, although I couldn't cite any without referring back to the book. I recall agreeing that one of the photos (I think it could be the 'famous' photo of Buzz Aldrin?!) looked extremely unlikely to have been taken using the chest-mounted camera, unless the photographer was standing appreciably higher up. Given the apparent distance between the two astronauts that seems highly unusual to me. I also think that the characteristics of many of the photos, given the complete absence of artificial lighting available and lack of atmosphere, seems highly suspect. I think that's symptomatic of people who have very fixed views and erroneously believe that supplementing those views with weak and/or hypothetical arguments is sufficient to make a case.

I remain unconvinced that man has actually walked on the moon, but if I were a betting man I'd say that we probably did, although you'd have to give me good odds! I'm certainly open, indeed interested, however, in considering further evidence and explanations purporting to show whether we did or did not, and I'd be happy to participate in a debate, if that's what you're anchoring after, although I guess the subject's been flogged to death on this forum on many occasions already.
 
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I bought the book many years ago and enjoyed reading it. I thought it raised many interesting points, and presented the analysis very well in places. I've seen the TV programme that you refer to, and I've perused a few websites subsequently that refute many of the allegations in the book, and I have to say that most of them offer very superficial rebuttals based on far less analysis than is generally presented in the book. I think there are a number of allegations made in the book, and examples of points made, that have not satisfactorily been shown to be wrong, although I couldn't cite any without referring back to the book. I recall agreeing that one of the photos (I think it could be the 'famous' photo of Buzz Aldrin?!) looked extremely unlikely to have been taken using the chest-mounted camera, unless the photographer was standing appreciably higher up. Given the apparent distance between the two astronauts that seems highly unusual to me. I also think that the characteristics of many of the photos, given the complete absence of artificial lighting available and lack of atmosphere, seems highly suspect. I think that's symptomatic of people who have very fixed views and erroneously believe that supplementing those views with weak and/or hypothetical arguments is sufficient to make a case.

I remain unconvinced that man has actually walked on the moon, but if I were a betting man I'd say that we probably did, although you'd have to give me good odds! I'm certainly open, indeed interested, however, in considering further evidence and explanations purporting to show whether we did or did not, and I'd be happy to participate in a debate, if that's what you're anchoring after, although I guess the subject's been flogged to death on this forum on many occasions already.

I can't believe people still believe this rubbish!

For a thorough debunking look at this page... http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/
or this one...
http://www.clavius.org/
or this one...
http://www.braeunig.us/space/hoax.htm

Debunking of the photographic analysis 'evidence' here - http://www.iangoddard.net/moon01.htm
or here
http://www3.telus.net/summa/moonshot/index.htm

Do you really think that if this was all a hoax the Soviets, who, don't forget were the original spur for the US to go to the moon, wouldn't have been able to expose it right away? :rolleyes:
 
I can't believe people still believe this rubbish!

For a thorough debunking look at this page... http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/
or this one...
http://www.clavius.org/
or this one...
http://www.braeunig.us/space/hoax.htm

Debunking of the photographic analysis 'evidence' here - http://www.iangoddard.net/moon01.htm
or here
http://www3.telus.net/summa/moonshot/index.htm

Do you really think that if this was all a hoax the Soviets, who, don't forget were the original spur for the US to go to the moon, wouldn't have been able to expose it right away? :rolleyes:

Putting aside the question of whether I personally believe that man actually walked on the moon or not, at least two of the websites that you consider afford a 'thorough debunking' offer perfect examples of what I described previously, and that arguably contribute to sceptics' doubts because of their lack of counter analysis and study.

The 'redzero.demon' website includes an explanation for the seemingly anomalous position of the camera for the famous Buzz Aldrin photo. The complete analysis and explanation follows:
The answer to this question is quite straight-forward. The ground they are standing on is not flat. Armstrong was further up an incline, so he was higher than Aldrin.


Gee, that's nearly an entire line of text! Now it seems to me that that might well be a plausible explanation, but this particular website posits it as fact - no doubts or alternative ideas whatsoever. So what's the basis for this explanation? Well, it would appear that there's actually no basis, and that it's just a theory. Why? Because if you study the photo, it's clear that, whilst the foreground might well be a little uneven, there's absolutely no indication of 'inclines' that would account for what I estimate to be a difference in height of close on half a metre. Interesting, too, I've just realized, that Armstrong chose to shoot into the sun. Not the best photographic practice for lighting a subject, although in this particular case it's fortuitous that the camera's manual exposure seems to have enabled just enough light to fall on the shadowed front of Aldrin to provide a perfect exposure! Incidentally, this photo also demonstrates well the unexplainable 'hot-spot' lighting effect centred around where Aldrin is standing!

Similarly, the 'iangoddard' website includes an explanation of the seemingly anomalous lighting of objects within shadows. His little luna module and astronauts are, frankly, laughable:
The side-by-side photos show a test I conducted with a toy lunar module and astronaut placed in its shadow as in the Apollo image above. The two photos show the difference between a reflective gray-paper foreground and a less reflective black-paper foreground. Foreground reflectance from the powerful lamp above was sufficient to illuminate the toy astronaut in the shadow of the toy lunar module. This simple test demonstrates that Apollo astronauts illuminated in shadow are not an "anomaly" but a predictable result of sunlight reflecting off the lunar surface.

The toy-astronaut test shows us the difference between a reflective foreground (gray paper) and a less reflective (black paper) foreground. Apart from surface reflection, the only light source was the lamp behind the toy. These tests show that illumination of astronauts in shadow is not an anomaly but a predictable result of surface reflection. In addition to surface reflection, light from the Earth in the sky above the Moon is 68 times brighter than a full Moon seen from the Earth.

One only needs to glance at the photos to notice the remarkably stark difference in the contrast between the sunlit actual lunar surface and the shadow of the real lunar module/astronaut and the 'powerful' lamp-lit gray/black paper(!) surfaces and the shadows of the toys. Other than the completely different lighting sources and respective 'lunar' surfaces I suppose the presence or otherwise of an atmosphere can be considered irrelevant to how light behaves!

So this is a 'thorough debunking' is it? I guess my threshold for what passes as scientific testing and analysis is maybe just a little higher than whet some other people's obviously is!
 
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The point is - all the supposed problems/errors etc. are easily explained -often, as you pointed out, with a simple one-liner such as 'Er - he was standing on higher ground!' All the 'anomalous light sources' photos overlook the fact that there were a number of other light-reflecting surfaces (including a 20 foot high silver and white lunar module) to provide extra illumination. And yes, light does reflect in a vacuum as well as in atmosphere, otherwise we wouldn't be able to see the moon.

The reason that the thorough debunking (and by thorough I mean that each and every hoax-theory point has been addressed and dismissed individually) is relatively short is that the alleged 'anomalies' are very easily and convincingly, to my mind at least, explained.

Are you familiar with the concept of Occam's Razor?
 
The point is - all the supposed problems/errors etc. are easily explained -often, as you pointed out, with a simple one-liner such as 'Er - he was standing on higher ground!'

You've hit the nail on the head here Jim. I don't wish to seem obtuse or flippant, but to precede an exclamation with 'Er ... ' tends to denote a pause before a wild guess, the latter then tending to be met with laughter, only to be followed by another wild guess, then another, then another ... Try your example above out loud jim, and make sure you hold the pause, then continue with surprise in your voice. See what I mean? I think this is telling of the way you're really thinking.

All the 'anomalous light sources' photos overlook the fact that there were a number of other light-reflecting surfaces (including a 20 foot high silver and white lunar module) to provide extra illumination. And yes, light does reflect in a vacuum as well as in atmosphere, otherwise we wouldn't be able to see the moon.

By 'other light-reflecting surfaces' do you mean those that seem to have had absolutely no impact on 'lightening' the pitch-black shadow of the lunar module, but that seem instead to have an unexplainable and amazing ability to direct just the right amount of reflected light only onto the 'subject matter' such that the part of the photo which affords it the greatest visual impact is presented nice and clear, and exposed just right?!

I'm well aware that light reflects in a vacuum, and thank you for raising this too. You'll also be aware, I assume, that light becomes scattered when passing through the atmosphere, which partially accounts for the indirect lighting of surfaces in addition to directly reflected light. Conversely, scattering of light is eliminated when passing through a (true) vacuum, hence the clarity of the images acquired by the likes of the Hubble telescope. Your pointing out that there is no atmosphere on the Moon actually serves to weaken the 'reflected' light argument!

The reason that the thorough debunking (and by thorough I mean that each and every hoax-theory point has been addressed and dismissed individually) is relatively short is that the alleged 'anomalies' are very easily and convincingly, to my mind at least, explained.

Well, to my mind 'easy' explanations of anomalies tend not to be convincing, especially when offered to counter the sceptical views and opinions of pre-eminent people within the respective applicable fields of study.

Are you familiar with the concept of Occam's Razor?

Yes I am. Thank you for reminding me, because you're actually the one who's fallen foul of it! Whereas the 'simplistic' explanations might seem to some to be the most attractive on account of their increased likelihood of being discredited, they are, in this case, ironically, the explanations that harbour the most assumptions! You see, whereas Dark Moon generally seeks to analyse the seeming anomalies to a high degree of detail, thereby systematically eliminating the need to make assumptions (but, admittedly, exposing itself to a higher likelihood of scrutinization at the detailed, albeit less relevant, level), simple explanations, almost by definition, are riddled with assumptions, especially those that are selected from a whole host of possible alternative simple explanations or combinations thereof. In such cases (like the 'inclined' surface in the Buzz Aldrin photo) the entire explanation is indeed an assumption!

As I wrote earlier Jim, I'd be inclined to conclude that, on balance, we probably have walked on the moon, if I had to bet my house. My main beef is with the contrasting shallowness of the counter-arguments put up to seek to disprove the allegations and the seemingly damning analyses and studies. Moreover, I find it intriguing that there doesn't seem to be one blatantly indisputable piece of evidence that simply blows the allegations completely out of the water, particularly given the significance of such a monumental event in history. Is there no subsequent photographic or other unfalsifiable record of the artefacts that surely remain intact on the lunar surface? It seems ludicrous to me that given that physical evidence does indeed exist, albeit some 380,000km away, that people, including yourself Jim, are forced to resort to ascribing the Soviets' backing down from the race to the moon as the main source of evidence, circumstantial at that, that supports man's landing on the Moon!
 
By 'other light-reflecting surfaces' do you mean those that seem to have had absolutely no impact on 'lightening' the pitch-black shadow of the lunar module, but that seem instead to have an unexplainable and amazing ability to direct just the right amount of reflected light only onto the 'subject matter' such that the part of the photo which affords it the greatest visual impact is presented nice and clear, and exposed just right?!
I never cease to be amazed by the silliness and ignorance evident in these "arguments".

Presumably, by looking at this picture, we would have to conclude that it is fake! The sun is clearly shining from the right - and yet the person in front, facing away from the sun, is sufficiently illuminated. What magical, unexplainable source of light could illuminate the person like this, without also illuminating the pitch-black shadow of the Mercedes?! This must be trickery - the picture must be doctored!

A similar picture can be seen here. The sun is shining from the left - and again, there is a mysterious source of light clearly illuminating the right side of the car - but not its dark shadow! Unexplainable and amazing!

I believe that any intelligent person will, after a while of thinking, be able to come up with the answer and explanation to this curious phenomenon. I therefore leave it as an exercise for the readers. For those without much experience with photography and lighting, a hidden hint follows.
Hint: look at the second picture. Unless your monitor is set to low contrast, you'll see that the shadows are not entirely black, but dark blue. This is because the dominant source of light is the (relatively low intensity) blue sky overhead. The tint of the right side of the car, on the other hand, hints that its dominant light source is the sunlit desert. Why do you think this is? Why does the sunlit desert illuminate the right side of the car, but not the shadow of the car?
The people who come up with the explanation will also be able to answer why the picture of Buzz Aldrin on the Moon looks the way it does.

But the silliness is not in being ignorant about basic aspects of photography. The silliness is in pretending knowledge, making up wildly incorrect conclusions about how a picture should look like, and when the reality (of course) differs from these erroneous expectations, claiming this to be evidence of fakery - without doing one single experiment of how it actually works in reality, or even doing a google search, any of which would quickly show the assumptions to be wrong. Being ignorant is not something to be ashamed of; we all begin with zero knowledge. But failing to educate oneself (especially when advised to), standing behind one's ignorance and waving it about as an important piece of evidence for a crazy conspiracy theory, is a disgrace.
 
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How about the difficulty in grabbing objects easily with the spacesuit gloves? The program showed a man trying to use the glove within a small vaccum chamber mimicking the conditions present on the moon and being unable to grab anything at all with it. Yet the astronauts seemed to have no difficulties at all. Has anyone an explanation for this?
 
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How about the difficulty in grabbing objects easily with the spacesuit gloves? The program showed a man trying to use the glove within a small vaccum chamber mimicking the conditions present on the moon and being unable to grab anything at all with it. Yet the astronauts seemed to have no difficulties at all. Has anyone an explanation for this?
My advice would be to try and come up with the explanation yourself.

Here you can see a video of NASA astronauts grabbing and manipulating objects in space - not only in vacuum, but also in 0 g, which is even more difficult - during an EVA mission at MIR. How is it possible that they successfully installed the equipment, when your TV show allegedly demonstrated that a man in vacuum should be unable to grab anything at all?

Do you think the correct answer is that the space station MIR and/or STS-76 mission were fake and the EVAs didn't happen? If not, what do you think is the best explanation for the discrepancy between events in this video and the conclusions proposed by the TV show that you had watched?
 
My main beef is with the contrasting shallowness of the counter-arguments put up to seek to disprove the allegations and the seemingly damning analyses and studies. Moreover, I find it intriguing that there doesn't seem to be one blatantly indisputable piece of evidence that simply blows the allegations completely out of the water, particularly given the significance of such a monumental event in history.
Two things I would suggest: 1) the 800+ pounds of rocks and soil brought back from the Moon and subsequently tested and examined by scientists from around the world (including Russian scientists), and 2) the ALSEP packages on the Moon.
 
How about the difficulty in grabbing objects easily with the spacesuit gloves? The program showed a man trying to use the glove within a small vaccum chamber mimicking the conditions present on the moon and being unable to grab anything at all with it. Yet the astronauts seemed to have no difficulties at all. Has anyone an explanation for this?

Yes. Spacesuits are designed with constant volume joints, so that exercising them does not require compressing the air inside them. You might be surprised at how much a spacesuit costs.

The knucklehead who put together his "mimicking" conditions did not use such a glove, and as a result -- either through ignorance, or willful deception -- naturally found it difficult to operate. The test is absolutely meaningless. I may as well claim that, because my car cannot exceed 155 MPH, that Formula One is an extraordinarily elaborate hoax.

There is no basis for Moon Landing denial. All of the technology required to pull off Apollo verifiably existed, was built, and was integrated in the late 1960's. Why, then, would we not go ahead with it? At that point, the hoax would be riskier than doing it.

If anyone here wants to persist in Moon Landing denial, I humbly suggest you get out of here and peddle your insanity on the Conspiracy Theories subforum. That's where it belongs, and we demolish such ideas there on a regular basis. The topic of this thread is quite different and cannot benefit from such a foolish perspective.
 
Yes. Spacesuits are designed with constant volume joints, so that exercising them does not require compressing the air inside them. You might be surprised at how much a spacesuit costs.

The knucklehead who put together his "mimicking" conditions did not use such a glove, and as a result -- either through ignorance, or willful deception -- naturally found it difficult to operate. The test is absolutely meaningless. I may as well claim that, because my car cannot exceed 155 MPH, that Formula One is an extraordinarily elaborate hoax.

There is no basis for Moon Landing denial. All of the technology required to pull off Apollo verifiably existed, was built, and was integrated in the late 1960's. Why, then, would we not go ahead with it? At that point, the hoax would be riskier than doing it.

If anyone here wants to persist in Moon Landing denial, I humbly suggest you get out of here and peddle your insanity on the Conspiracy Theories subforum. That's where it belongs, and we demolish such ideas there on a regular basis. The topic of this thread is quite different and cannot benefit from such a foolish perspective.

You say that the person who tested the defective glove might have done so to deceive us. Now, what benefit would he gain by doing that? If indeed people who say these things know them to be untrue, what is their motivation. Royalties from book sales? That's the only reason I can imagine.

BTW
Did you see the film Capricorn I? It's about the faking of a moon landing via the use of special effects. It was produced around 1975 or there abouts. I imagine it reinforced the doubts that already existed or were then emerging.
 
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My advice would be to try and come up with the explanation yourself.

Here you can see a video of NASA astronauts grabbing and manipulating objects in space - not only in vacuum, but also in 0 g, which is even more difficult - during an EVA mission at MIR. How is it possible that they successfully installed the equipment, when your TV show allegedly demonstrated that a man in vacuum should be unable to grab anything at all?

Do you think the correct answer is that the space station MIR and/or STS-76 mission were fake and the EVAs didn't happen? If not, what do you think is the best explanation for the discrepancy between events in this video and the conclusions proposed by the TV show that you had watched?

That argument seems to be irrefutable and effectively tends to eliminate all doubts about the landing's veracity. Those using the glove problem reason as proof would have to find a way around that. Have they proposed a counter argument? I imagine they would claim that the gloves used on the moon landing missions are not the same gloves used on the orbital flights today. Right? Since it was the glove itself he was attributing the inflexibility to and not the person's hand per se.
 
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I imagine they would claim that the gloves used on the moon landing missions are not the same gloves used on the orbital flights today. Right? Since it was the glove itself he was attributing the inflexibility to and not the person's hand per se.
The video linked above has shown that it is possible for a trained astronaut to grab and manipulate objects in the vacuum of space, when wearing a proper glove. The question is not whether it is possible; we know that it is. The question is, what was wrong with the demonstration in the TV show? If they used a simple rubber glove, the answer should be obvious.

As R.Mackey remarked, real spacesuit gloves are no cheap items: just to give you an idea, a pair of modern EVA gloves can cost over $40,000, and that's just manufacturing costs (ignoring research & development costs).

Now, were the gloves worn by Apollo astronauts different from those used on orbital flights today? As a matter of fact, yes, they were different. Since the days of Apollo, spacesuit gloves have seen major improvements. But that of course does not mean that Apollo astronauts used simple rubber gloves. Here you can find some description of the gloves that should give you an idea about them.

Is it easy to handle objects in spacesuit gloves? Definitely not. Even today's gloves are relatively cumbersome and difficult to work in. They are nothing like common gloves that you may be familiar with. The "ease" that you may think you see in the Moon videos is an illusion. In fact, astronauts complained about the Apollo gloves, reported that their hand mobility, dexterity and tactility was limited and that using the gloves required efforts that quickly led to arm fatigue. But even though using the gloves was strenuous and uncomfortable, it was not impossible. The Moon walkers were professionals with extensive training to do the assigned tasks, and they did them as expected.

The "demonstration" in the TV show is irrelevant to all of this. What exactly does it try to show? That spacesuit gloves can't work, as a matter of principle? But we know that they do work (see video above). So perhaps that Apollo gloves, specifically, can't work? But how possibly could they show that if the glove used was nothing like an actual Apollo glove? I fail to understand the purpose of this entire exercise in silliness.
 
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Now, were the gloves worn by Apollo astronauts different from those used on orbital flights today? As a matter of fact, yes, they were different. Since the days of Apollo, spacesuit gloves have seen major improvements. But that of course does not mean that Apollo astronauts used simple rubber gloves. Here you can find some description of the gloves that should give you an idea about them.

Is it easy to handle objects in spacesuit gloves? Definitely not. Even today's gloves are relatively cumbersome and difficult to work in. They are nothing like common gloves that you may be familiar with. The "ease" that you may think you see in the Moon videos is an illusion. In fact, astronauts complained about the Apollo gloves, reported that their hand mobility, dexterity and tacility was limited and that using the gloves required efforts that quickly led to arm fatigue. But even though using the gloves was strenuous and uncomfortable, it was not impossible. The Moon walkers were professionals with extensive training to do the assigned tasks, and they did them as expected.

The "demonstration" in the TV show is irrelevant to all of this. What exactly does it try to show? That spacesuit gloves can't work, as a matter of principle? But we know that they do work (see video above). So perhaps that Apollo gloves, specifically, can't work? But how possibly could they show that if the glove used was nothing like an actual Apollo glove? I fail to understand the purpose of this entire exercise in silliness.

What's your take on the allegation that the gloves were so cumbersome so as to have made the manual operation of the aperture ring on the chest-mount camera extremely difficult, to say the least, thereby leading, in all likelihood, to an ordinate number of incorrectly exposed photos, which is claimed not to be the case?
 
You've hit the nail on the head here Jim. I don't wish to seem obtuse or flippant, but to precede an exclamation with 'Er ... ' tends to denote a pause before a wild guess, the latter then tending to be met with laughter, only to be followed by another wild guess, then another, then another ... Try your example above out loud jim, and make sure you hold the pause, then continue with surprise in your voice. See what I mean? I think this is telling of the way you're really thinking.

OK, let me reword it to better reflect the emotion I was (apparently poorly) attempting to convey - "Well DUH! He was standing on higher ground!' :rolleyes:


Well, to my mind 'easy' explanations of anomalies tend not to be convincing, especially when offered to counter the sceptical views and opinions of pre-eminent people within the respective applicable fields of study.

Why do you need someone to concoct an unnecessarily complex explanation for something which is easily explicable. You think that the complexity of a explanation has some direct relevance to it's veracity?

Let's try a little thought experiment - my car keys went missing yesterday. I eventually found them down the back of the sofa. Consider the two following possible explanations...

1. An invisible bigfoot took them out of my pocket and borrowed my car. To cover up the fact that he'd borrowed it he filled it with petrol, wound the clock back to the milage that it showed when he borrowed it and left it on the drive. However, because I was wearing my coat at the time, he couldn't replace the keys so he put them down the back of the sofa, assuming that I'd think I dropped them there.

or...

2. I accidentally dropped them down the back of the sofa.

Invoking occam's razor, I would opt for explanation 2 - it explains the observed sequence of events without having to invent complicating factors. In the case of the Apollo photos, the 'moon hoax' is the 'invisible bigfoot' in the explanation:- it is prefectly possible to account for every observed feature of the photographs without having to invent an implausible series of events.

[re. occam's razor]Yes I am. Thank you for reminding me, because you're actually the one who's fallen foul of it! Whereas the 'simplistic' explanations might seem to some to be the most attractive on account of their increased likelihood of being discredited, they are, in this case, ironically, the explanations that harbour the most assumptions!

The main assumption is that the observable laws of physics and how they relate to the reflection of light is the same on the moon as on the earth.

You see, whereas Dark Moon generally seeks to analyse the seeming anomalies to a high degree of detail, thereby systematically eliminating the need to make assumptions (but, admittedly, exposing itself to a higher likelihood of scrutinization at the detailed, albeit less relevant, level),

So more detailed = less relevant?? I thought simple = less relevant???

simple explanations, almost by definition, are riddled with assumptions, especially those that are selected from a whole host of possible alternative simple explanations or combinations thereof.

So, if there are a 'whole host' of simple explanations, why do the hoax theory proponents need to opt for the most convoluted and least likely ones?

In such cases (like the 'inclined' surface in the Buzz Aldrin photo) the entire explanation is indeed an assumption!

Yes, but an assumption which neatly accounts for the observed properties of the photograph. Which do you think more likely - Aldrin was standing on an incline when he took the picture or the NASA hoaxers didn't realise they were standing on a step-ladder when they took the picture?


My main beef is with the contrasting shallowness of the counter-arguments put up to seek to disprove the allegations and the seemingly damning analyses and studies.

Your equation of simplicity with shallowness is a logical fallacy.

Moreover, I find it intriguing that there doesn't seem to be one blatantly indisputable piece of evidence that simply blows the allegations completely out of the water, particularly given the significance of such a monumental event in history.

You're right - there isn't one indisputable piece of evidence - there are hundreds. They have been examined in detail by scientists all over the world. They are called 'moon rocks'.



Is there no subsequent photographic or other unfalsifiable record of the artefacts that surely remain intact on the lunar surface?

Yes, there is - it is called The Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment

It seems ludicrous to me that given that physical evidence does indeed exist, albeit some 380,000km away, that people, including yourself Jim, are forced to resort to ascribing the Soviets' backing down from the race to the moon as the main source of evidence, circumstantial at that, that supports man's landing on the Moon!

Who said that it was the main source of evidence? Not I.
 
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What's your take on the allegation that the gloves were so cumbersome so as to have made the manual operation of the aperture ring on the chest-mount camera extremely difficult, to say the least, thereby leading, in all likelihood, to an ordinate number of incorrectly exposed photos, which is claimed not to be the case?

Astronauts take photos all the time.

I don't understand this whole issue. The moon landing hoax must be more relevant to baby-boomers or something.

Spaceflight is real. Without discussing engineering or anything else, you need merely lookup the time that the ISS is going over your head, then walk outside and see it for yourself.

It's not much of a stretch to imagine that someone strapped on an extra booster stage and went around the moon.

Meh.

Not only do moonshot deniers sound crazy, but why not spend time on other conspiracy theories?

:boggled:
 
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What's your take on the allegation that the gloves were so cumbersome so as to have made the manual operation of the aperture ring on the chest-mount camera extremely difficult, to say the least, thereby leading, in all likelihood, to an ordinate number of incorrectly exposed photos, which is claimed not to be the case?
My take is that the allegiation is baseless, as in, there is no basis for such a claim. I am not aware of any person ever undergoing lunar surface photography training with the A7K gloves and finding that it is "extremely difficult, to say the least" to correctly set the exposure. Having no basis, the claim is an argument from incredulity.

Those who want to learn more about the details of lunar surface photography may start here.

There is also no need to resort to other people's claims about the quality of the photographs; unabridged, high quality scans of original film magazines exposed during the lunar EVAs are freely available online for everyone to look at.
 

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