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Split from: Severe Depression

bigred

Penultimate Amazing
bigred
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
22,663
Location
USA
:mad:

NO IT IS NOT A "MEDICAL PROBLEM!"

Sorry AS I swear this is not aimed at you or anyone specifically and apologies to anyone up front offended. But this is exactly the kind of thing I was trying to caution against - ie the growing, disturbing and frankly grossly irresponsible mindset in our society - and unbelievably, alleged psychological professionals - that if someone is depressed, it's a "medical condition" or a "chemical imbalance." Far more often than not THIS IS NOT TRUE despite how desperately our insta-fix society wants it to be. Why do they want that to be true? Because it makes things easy. Don't sit around hacking through the problem(s) itself and work things out; just pop a pill!

In fact if you think of it, it's absurd. Lost your job? You're not depressed because of that....it's a chemical imbalance. House burned down? You're not depressed because of that....it's a chemical imbalance. Romance break up? Spouse or family member just died? Legs bit off by a shark?? You're not really depressed because of that.....it's a chemical imbalance. Here munch on some prozac/zoloft/similar trendy anti-depressant happy pills. You'll be fine!


Based on the info given, it sounds very much like this depression is caused by a lost love. Again that is not to diminish the pain J is feeling to say the least. But this "well you're depressed, go get some happy pills" is way off the mark and every time I see or hear of a "doctor" or psycho-whatever throwing these things around like candy I want to vomit. These people belong in a walk-in clinic handing out band-aids, nothing more potentially damaging.

J again obviously none of us can say for sure, and I agree there is the possibility that at some point you do or should consider some kind of anti-depressants. But I hope you get a good therapist who is good at helping you TALK THROUGH and work out these problems...hopefully (eventually) through talks with them, and your "ex" will get your life back. If nothing else, "worst case" you will realize you need to move on and start over. 'Course none of those options are easy or quick. But unless you really do or have lapsed into chronic....ie long-term, cannot function, doesn't matter if the love thing is resolved or not....depression, I strongly suggest that if at all possible you avoid the happy pills and ONLY try them as a last resort.

/rant
 
OK, one more time. Suicidal ideations are a serious f:mad: king symptom of a possible medical emergency. To spell it out for you, bigred, sometimes when persons have suicidal ideations, they actually act upon them and kill themselves. They don't have to be diagnosed as depressed, and they don't have to have a depression that is caused by an organic, chemical imbalance, and they don't have to be depressed for long in order to kill themselves. It can take just a moment of succumbing to those ideations to be fatal, or it can take years of flirting with them. The person is dead all the same.

If someone is thinking of suicide persistently, it is a crisis. The emergency room of a hospital can be a perfectly appropriate venue for some crisis intervention in such a case. What you are doing -- trying to talk him out of seeking help -- can be deadly. Stop it, you jackass.

AS
 
bigred and AS,

Probably best if you took this discussion to PM or another thread, unless both of you feel doing it in this thread is somehow a benefit to Jesus.
 
Mr. Skinny said:
bigred and AS,

Probably best if you took this discussion to PM or another thread, unless both of you feel doing it in this thread is somehow a benefit to Jesus.
Click to expand...

I don't care a flip what bigred has to say, and I'm not the least bit interested in having a discussion with him. The only reason I posted my response is because he is undermining the only good advice Jesus is getting in this thread, which is to recognize that suicidal ideations, and the other thoughts he has been having, are very likely symptomatic of depression, and that he needs to recognize that for the serious medical problem it can be. It is a potentially life threatening problem. Life threatening.

So, yes, the only reason I'm posting here is for Jesus' sake. I never thought I would write that sentence, but I just did.

Bigred, stop undermining serious advice Jesus is getting here. I am not overstating the case. Suicidal thoughts are potentially deadly. It's best that you just don't reply, bigred, not to me, and not to this thread.

Jesus, keep working on that appointment with a medical doctor, as in an MD, not a psychotherapist, not a counselor, but a medical doctor. Get a referral to a psychiatrist if necessary. That's what they do professionally all day -- they treat persons with depression and other illnesses.

I'm done here. Skinny, I like you, but I don't care how you feel about it. I posted here for Jesus' sake, and only his sake.

AS
 
AmateurScientist said:
OK, one more time. Suicidal ideations are a serious f:mad: king symptom of a possible medical emergency. To spell it out for you, bigred, sometimes when persons have suicidal ideations, they actually act upon them and kill themselves. They don't have to be diagnosed as depressed, and they don't have to have a depression that is caused by an organic, chemical imbalance, and they don't have to be depressed for long in order to kill themselves. It can take just a moment of succumbing to those ideations to be fatal, or it can take years of flirting with them. The person is dead all the same.

If someone is thinking of suicide persistently, it is a crisis. The emergency room of a hospital can be a perfectly appropriate venue for some crisis intervention in such a case. What you are doing -- trying to talk him out of seeking help -- can be deadly. Stop it, you jackass.

AS
Click to expand...
Christ you're f(cking stupid. Try actually reading not just my post but J's last one. He is seeking help and hardly sounds suicidal, and either way I sure as hell am not trying to stop him from seeking help. And how does that make this a "medical problem" anyway? Yknow, the entire point of my post? Nice reading comprehension. How many years did it take you to pass English anyway?

Try untying those knots in your panties and actually attempt to comprehend what I said and what he's said and perhaps the fog in your brain will clear a bit.

I doubt it though. Get family and friends to help, as you are clearly in desperate need of it. Hell maybe you should hit the ER, I think you just popped a major artery in your brain.
 
AmateurScientist said:
Bigred, stop undermining serious advice Jesus is getting here. I am not overstating the case. Suicidal thoughts are potentially deadly. It's best that you just don't reply, bigred, not to me, and not to this thread.
Click to expand...
I see so your advice is "serious" but mine isn't. You pompous ass.

I am also posting this for J's benefit. That you disagree with me at all does not make my posts any less relevant or valid - in fact IMO more so. Have you ever suffered from severe/chronic depression? Ever worked with people who suffered from it? With suicidal people? Know any psychologists personally? I can answer in the affirmative in all cases slick. You? Point being I think I know at least a little about this (not that that necessarily makes me right in any given instance) and your implications to the contrary are a freaking joke.

And PS unlike you I'm not twisting anyone's words because someone dared to disagree with me. Get a grip.

Jesus, keep working on that appointment with a medical doctor, as in an MD, not a psychotherapist, not a counselor, but a medical doctor.
Click to expand...
Your irresponsibility is now blatant and dangerous. Who the hell are you to say "don't see a psychotherapist"

J, seek help however you feel it best to do, as I've already said at least twice. Bottom line, don't take either me OR AS's advice (or anyone else's) as gospel. You impress me as an intelligent person, so do what you feel best and always consider other avenues if whatever you choose doesn't seem to help. I only caution you to consider carefully and be well.


I'm done here.
Click to expand...
Thank God.
 
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Wow. Who'da thunk it? A major blow up over something I don't even see as controversial!

First off... I find webmd to be a pretty good source for discussion like these. (The link takes you directly to the depression page overview)

webmd said:
Depression may be triggered by stressful life events, other illnesses, certain drugs or medications, or inherited traits. Although causes of depression are not entirely understood, we know it is linked to an imbalance in brain chemistry. Once the imbalance is corrected, symptoms of depression generally improve.
Click to expand...

You might also want to go to this page, which provides information on the causes of depression.

As I said - "normal" depression can actually lead to clinical depression, where a chemical imbalance in the brain makes it virtually impossible to find your way out of it.

Point is that there's no value for Jesus (or anyone!) to guess if he's clinically depressed or not. Just go and find out. :)
 
Wow, that was pretty intense!
I took Bigred's point to be the overmedication of the public by whomever, for whatever reasons.
When life kicks your nads, you are entitled to a little depression. When someone dies, you are entitled to grieve.

Extreme cases do need some help, maybe. If you and yours feel like getting help, do so.
 
Amateur Scientist is very correct here. Situations directly regulate our mood and outlook. Conversely, physical imbalances directly affect how situations are interpreted, regardless of the situation itself. If both a situational and neurochemical imbalance play merry devil a medical emergency does most likely exist. The person experiencing varying degrees of anhedonia, is psychophysically handicapped or completely disabled. Common daily tasks, to use a simple analogy, are like scaling a jagged cliff in -20f weather. Pointless, stressful, and futile.
 
bigred said:
:mad:

NO IT IS NOT A "MEDICAL PROBLEM!"

Sorry AS I swear this is not aimed at you or anyone specifically and apologies to anyone up front offended. But this is exactly the kind of thing I was trying to caution against - ie the growing, disturbing and frankly grossly irresponsible mindset in our society - and unbelievably, alleged psychological professionals - that if someone is depressed, it's a "medical condition" or a "chemical imbalance." Far more often than not THIS IS NOT TRUE despite how desperately our insta-fix society wants it to be. Why do they want that to be true? Because it makes things easy. Don't sit around hacking through the problem(s) itself and work things out; just pop a pill!

In fact if you think of it, it's absurd. Lost your job? You're not depressed because of that....it's a chemical imbalance. House burned down? You're not depressed because of that....it's a chemical imbalance. Romance break up? Spouse or family member just died? Legs bit off by a shark?? You're not really depressed because of that.....it's a chemical imbalance. Here munch on some prozac/zoloft/similar trendy anti-depressant happy pills. You'll be fine!


Based on the info given, it sounds very much like this depression is caused by a lost love. Again that is not to diminish the pain J is feeling to say the least. But this "well you're depressed, go get some happy pills" is way off the mark and every time I see or hear of a "doctor" or psycho-whatever throwing these things around like candy I want to vomit. These people belong in a walk-in clinic handing out band-aids, nothing more potentially damaging.

J again obviously none of us can say for sure, and I agree there is the possibility that at some point you do or should consider some kind of anti-depressants. But I hope you get a good therapist who is good at helping you TALK THROUGH and work out these problems...hopefully (eventually) through talks with them, and your "ex" will get your life back. If nothing else, "worst case" you will realize you need to move on and start over. 'Course none of those options are easy or quick. But unless you really do or have lapsed into chronic....ie long-term, cannot function, doesn't matter if the love thing is resolved or not....depression, I strongly suggest that if at all possible you avoid the happy pills and ONLY try them as a last resort.

/rant
Click to expand...

Or you could be like me and have a type of bipolar disorder as well a severe anxiety disorder. The last 10 years of my life have been hell essentially. I'm not very old either. You remind of my stepfather, since he has never experienced any sort of psychological problem. He is completely obtuse and ignorant on this issue. Sadly I hear this often from those with mental illness, the family does not understand and does not cooperate, same attitude as you display. "Just snap out of it, stop being lazy". :rolleyes:

A decent psychiatrist will not prescribe medication to a person so quickly,
I can't speak for regular M.Ds though. You would do well to educate yourself on this issue before writing about it. Newsweek and the television media does not count.
 
For the record I'd be dead without a "happy pill" my family doesn't quite believe it and hates spending the money on. I can't yet afford to pay for it myself. After living in that hell for so long there is no way I can go back there. I guess though we should not give medication to anyone and let nature take it's proper course...

Did you ever receive vaccinations Bigred? Ever take any medication for anything in your life? You would be dead too maybe... Fun isn't it, but we don't need science in this world, right?

One very serious note, what you typed was beyond stupid. If you don't know something and the matter is this serious keep your asinine opinions to yourself.
 
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Well Big Red, come live my life for a year or so then make up your ignorant mind.

Depression is not a case of having a run of bad luck and then feeling miserable. I have a bloody good life. Great job, no debts or worries...flawless. I'm often dating rather beautiful and intelligent girls (committing full time to one girl has been something I've avoided by choice, for good or bad, and not because I'm disliked), have a place to live, good friends. I have the perfect life.

Every now and then throughout my life, typically without any perceivable cause, I feel like absolute ◊◊◊◊. I have strategies in dealing with it, but if I didn't, I would not get out of bed. I'd loathe myself and undertake actions to make others hate me, simply to justify the sensation. The closest I can describe it; it's like wearing dark sunglasses on a bright day. The world feels grey and overcast, but you know there are no clouds. I would indeed feel suicidal on a bad day, and would force that self-aggression onto others through emotional abuse.

I was diagnosed by with clincal depression in 2002. I didn't like the idea, so went to another counciller who referred me to another doctor who basically said the same thing as the first. It did make sense, ultimately; periodically my brain simply shut down and made the world look awful. I couldn't cope.

I'm not a weak person by any means, and when I'm not having an episode I can really tell the difference. The swings are pretty major (as my closest friends know).

Your ignorance on the topic, seeing it as just an episode of the blues, is something I encounter quite often. But I ruined a marriage and a few good friendships because I felt 'the blues'? I seriously doubt it. Especially when there was nothing in my life to cause it. Sure, depression is often brought on by periods of ill-coping, and grief, and it often compounds a situation I could otherwise deal with easily.

I have little hope that you'd change your mind on this, as it seems to offend your sensitivity on the topic of pscyhological illnesses. But if I had have continued thinking as you did a number of years ago, I never would have found a way to cope with the occasionally slip-ups in my head and would probably be continuing with the self-destruction.

Athon
 
There can be a multitude of psychologic causes for persistently feeling a certain way, and that's the key. Bottom line is that if one feels it is interfering with one's quality of life, then that person should seek help. I'd also recommend a qualified psychiatrist, preferably working in conjuction with a behavioralist (MS or PhD in psychology), to be appropriately assessed. Medication is only part of a multi-disciplinary approach.

I do agree that, too often, a primary care physician may not be able to devote the time or expertise to tease out the specific problems associated with persistent negative feelings. Sadly, part of the "pill culture" in the U.S. is to simply prescribe a medication which treats the symptoms but not the root of the disease. However, relying on "family and friends" to help you out is not always an advisable solution, as they are usually ill-equipped to understand or comprehend the causes of such feelings not to mention the fact they they may be the source of some of them. Likewise, some people may not have supportive family and friends to turn to.

Anyone feeling this way should get help. There's nothing to be ashamed about. You won't be judged. You do have the ability, through time, talking, discovery, and - yes - often medication, to regain the ability to cope with and effectively manage negative feelings.

Get help.

-Dr. Imago
 
I thought attitudes had changed but clearly not, so I will contribute my 2 cents worth in as plain language as I can.

If your "mood" is affecting any of your normal routines then go see your GP (MD) immediately! There is no shame, no stigma and no sense on the part of GP's that you are wasting their time.

Be open and honest. Men especially find it incredibly hard to emotionally open up and tend to downplay how the depression and anxiety are affecting them.

The GP will ask you if you are having suicidal ideation as part of the consultation because many anti-depressants can make this symptom worse initially.

In most cases the GP will immediately prescribe a moderate dose of an antidepressant and make an appointment for a consultation with a local psychiatric department.

If you don't get this result then make sure the GP explains why.
 
People still seem to find it difficult to accept that our mental state is at the whim of a foundation of biochemistry. Every thought, feeling and drive is biochemical. Environment can indeed push these levels up and down variably, and feeling down one day is not exactly a sign that your levels are out of whack. However, when there is no obvious cause, or the normal process of dealing with problems is impeded, then there is reason to believe that the chemistry of the brain is abnormal.

If your insulin levels are abnormal, you have diabetes, and nobody in their right mind would argue that this is not a medical problem. So why is it such a problem to see why abnormal levels in one's neurochemistry might be a medical issue?

Whether it should be immediately addressed with medication is, of course, to be questioned. But then this is my approach with any medical problem; if there is a way of addressing the problem without the need for drugs, then it should be pursued, especially concerning the rather delicate nature of neurochemistry.

Athon
 
William Rea said:
Be open and honest. Men especially find it incredibly hard to emotionally open up and tend to downplay how the depression and anxiety are affecting them.
Click to expand...
News to me. But women don't either?

In most cases the GP will immediately prescribe a moderate dose of an antidepressant and make an appointment for a consultation with a local psychiatric department.
Click to expand...
SSRIs should only be used to treat depression as a result of chemical imbalance. Otherwise the reasoning and consequences are no different than alcoholism or overuse of narcotics. The high requirement of artificial stability wanes, while a physical tolerance develops. What doesn't change is the reason for the substance abuse, which is constantly covered up through chemical self-harm. Any doctor who uses his authority and qualifications to prescribe someone SSRIs because of a situation, not a disabling chemical imbalance, commits a far larger crime than any street drug dealer.
 
I don't believe anybody has the right to stop others from committing suicide. Right to live is also Right to die. It's a free country!
 
qwrty said:
I don't believe anybody has the right to stop others from committing suicide. Right to live is also Right to die. It's a free country!
Click to expand...

Which is why I've never considered myself a libertarian. People can be at the mercy of their own mental ill health. I'd prefer to live in a society where people are prevented from being caused harm and destruction, even if it is at their own hands.

Skeptics endeavour to help protect people from the harm they could potentially cause themselves through ill thinking, be it through lack of critical thinking or through illogical rationalisation. Why is it suddenly different when they wish to kill themselves? Indeed, it's often worse than the result of an illogical process of thinking -- suicide results from such an extreme breakdown of mental processes that it is rarely just the result of poor thinking, but often screwed up neurochemistry.

I've said this before; nobody of a healthy mind wishes to do themselves harm.

Athon
 
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