"Spent," a Social Issues game

[slingblade]

Does the game allow you to commit crime? I only ask because crime represents a freelancing opportunity for those of us under that poverty line. Crime allows me to share my own personal financial problems with others.

You mean things like doing side jobs under the table, having yard sales and not reporting the income on taxes, selling your stuff on eBay (ibid)? That kind of crime? It should, to be realistic.

Or do you mean making meth, selling pot, robbing liquor stores kind of crime? Or both?

As an aside, I did go bankrupt. But that was before I was poor. I went bankrupt when I was pulling down a nice $65K a year. At the time, I had no appreciation for how money worked. Bankruptcy had some fine lessons to teach me. I should also mention that I do not "feel" poor. I will admit I have no health care, my dogs are not properly licensed and my car is crap. I am wearing clothes, fairly warm in the winter and I have cable.

And yes, I understand there are others poorer than me and I should be thankful for my $8 an hour. On the other hand, it's not a tragedy to pull down a few hundred a week.

Nope, it's not. But some aspects of threads here about it make one feel as if it's...well, you're just a failed person if you're low income. And some people are; that's how some get there and stay there. Some just make mistakes, that they learned from, but have fallen so far away from the norm that getting back takes a lot longer than one would think. Some have a bit of bad luck as well, things no one could have expected or for which they could prepare. It's complicated.

I agree with you though; my low-income lifestyle has been relatively comfortable. I know it sounds all Hallmark-Lifetime Movie, but you learn there's a lot you can do without and feel no hardship. A simpler life has its moments.

 

[Magyar]

it's amusing to see the a small number of people who have ideological problems with the game are complaining about it being "broken" because it conflicts with their view of what being poor is like. Sorry they didn't include a bootstraps button with the game, guys.

I absolutely have to second your comment. I know several people _ my wife's relatives and some parents of my kids friends - who live like this. And it seems that most of the people who are railing against the reality of this game seem to believe that they should be punished for the rest of their lives for these mistakes.

While there IS some truth to the fact that some/most of the people in these situations are in these situations because of personal choices/mistakes the game IS realistic from everything I've seem.


RE the $250 ticket. Also very real - I got one last month for speeding 85 in a 65 on the freeway $100 for the 1st 10 miles $10 for every additional miles $200. I haven't had a ticket for a more than a10 years so if I paid it out of pocket it would not go on my record or raise my insurance. I was late picking up my son because my boss called me into his office to discuss changes to a proposal that he was turning in for the next day as I was walking out the door.



Co worker got a ticket making a right turn at a corner - the cop said the pedestrian crossing the street who was still in the first lane on the other side of the street was cut off and she should have given him the right of way. $250 ticket - she's fighting it but that will mean she will have to use one of her PTO days to go to court. How many minimum wage earners have PTO?

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

ETA: and also a big WTF is bank charging you if you have below 50$. here around you get charged for overdraft ONLY if you are below zero... What the heck is that ?

Mine does that if I go below $300. When I wasn't working, I almost closed the account because of it.

 

[MoeFaux]

Two years in a row I received a ticket for driving on an expired registration, and the ticket was over $250, I believe. Of course, if I'd had the money to register my car, I would have, but I couldn't afford to. I paid my insurance instead and watched for cops. That was a definite setback related to my finances; I was doubly screwed with the ticket.

Panhandling, homelessness, taking the landlord to court, not seeking doctors or dentists for years...of course, I don't need to elaborate on my experiences. It's rough out there. If you don't know it, you're lucky. I don't need to play the game, I lived the game, and might still be living it. I'm rich in experience. And empathy.

 

[Pup]

Does the game allow you to commit crime? I only ask because crime represents a freelancing opportunity for those of us under that poverty line. Crime allows me to share my own personal financial problems with others.

Yes! That really helps you "win" the game.

I played it twice. Made it through the month with one job strike, $231 in cash and a toothache. Tried again and did better, $601, no job strikes and a toothache. It seemed pretty "winnable" to me, but maybe I just got two lucky games in a row.

But instead of owning up to a car accident, I did a hit and run. No problem. Caused damage at work and hid the evidence. Again, no problem. They were the "right" choice. Didn't buy the medicine for my mother, either, and no repercussions to that.

It seemed to me more of a lesson in how poverty can make people cold-hearted and brutal.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Yes! That really helps you "win" the game.

I played it twice. Made it through the month with one job strike, $231 in cash and a toothache. Tried again and did better, $601, no job strikes and a toothache. It seemed pretty "winnable" to me, but maybe I just got two lucky games in a row.

But instead of owning up to a car accident, I did a hit and run. No problem. Caused damage at work and hid the evidence. Again, no problem. They were the "right" choice. Didn't buy the medicine for my mother, either, and no repercussions to that.

It seemed to me more of a lesson in how poverty can make people cold-hearted and brutal.

Was that before or after rent?

 

[bonzombiekitty]

While I get the point of the game, I didn't like how the consequences of some decisions are not stated for you. For example I was given a scenario where my son had the opportunity to get into some education program the choices were "pay $x for enrollment" (which I couldn't afford), "apply for a scholarship", and "don't try to enroll". I chose "apply for a scholarship" and then I got hit with a loss of half a day of work so I could go see a counselor about the scholarship. If I had known that, I probably wouldn't have done it.

Granted, there's lots of things that people would do where they don't think about or understand the potential consequences of. But in that case, you can't pretend that it was something that was reasonably unknowable, never mind it being something that I couldn't undo when I find out about it - "Oh? You mean I have to come in for a meeting? Sorry, I can't afford to take off of work for that"

I also found the rents to be odd for my area. The cheapest rent & transportation value was something like $750 and required living 50 miles from work. Around here at least, you can get a cheap ass apartment and a monthly public transport pass (which can get you most places) for less than that. Yes, you'll be living in the ghetto, but it's cheaper than having to live 50 miles from work and maintain a car.

 

[marplots]

It seemed to me more of a lesson in how poverty can make people cold-hearted and brutal.

Yes, morality is a luxury item. The mathematics are straightforward. If it costs X to be civil, responsible and moral in my society, but I only make Y, I simply cannot afford to be as moral as I'd like.

 

[Antiquehunter]

I also found the rents to be odd for my area. The cheapest rent & transportation value was something like $750 and required living 50 miles from work. Around here at least, you can get a cheap ass apartment and a monthly public transport pass (which can get you most places) for less than that. Yes, you'll be living in the ghetto, but it's cheaper than having to live 50 miles from work and maintain a car.

While we're comparing anecdotes, I'm working in Montreal until December 15. I decided to rent an apartment - so I went on Craigslist and looked at furnished/sublets. I'm living in a funky neighborhood (Mile End) in a 1BR rather downscale but clean and functional apartment in a 2 story walkup. Including heat & utilities, I'm paying $810 a month. Add to this $90 a month for transit (30 mins each way). And this is hardly the ghetto. Not the sort of place I would prefer to live long term, and not suitable for single parent family with kids & a dog - but there are also cheaper options available. And Montreal isn't exactly Flint, Mich. (No dig intended at any Flintonians.)

 

[Pup]

Was that before or after rent?

The numbers I quoted were just what was displayed at the lower left when it stopped at the end of the month and the final $5 donation screen came up. I wished it would go on, but it seemed to end there.

The first game said something like remember rent is coming due when it stopped at the end but didn't deduct any amount, but the second game didn't mention rent at the end (at least I don't think so--I remember being surprised not to see the message).

 

[bluesjnr]

If you press "Alt+f8" at day three during the game you get to register your level of poorness as compared to everybody else's (doesn't include students) but you are scored on a moralistic scale of fundamental goodness - so beware.

I garnered 1200 "I'm a better poor person and a poorer poor person that you" points.

How about the rest of you?

 

[Brainster]

The random stuff is occasionally realistic, occasionally BS. I mean, seriously, my landlord raises the rent $150 a couple days after I moved in? You didn't sign a lease? And even in Arizona, where the laws are somewhat stacked towards the landlord, it takes a couple of months to evict a non-paying tenant, so you could simply have told him to go fly a kite.

And as others have observed, most people know when they have payments on something like a car coming up. I wouldn't have bought that new shirt if I'd know that I had a $250 car payment coming up. BTW, that sounds like a payment on a reasonably new car; how about selling it and getting a beater?

I do love the speeding ticket, primarily because I have NEVER gotten one in my life (knock on wood). In fact, my last moving violation (running a stop sign) came during the Carter Administration.

Oh, and I also love the donate $5 for a poor person's daily meals bit at the end. I eat fairly well at $1 per meal.

 

[DrDave]

Seemed quite straightforward. Moved in as close to work as possible and chose the options which wouldn't cost money.

Was there any point to the shopping bit? I didn't get any feedback.

 

[Pup]

Was there any point to the shopping bit? I didn't get any feedback.

I wondered about that. I thought that if I didn't buy "enough," it would make me buy more later, but of course you couldn't tell how many servings you were getting. I spent about $30 each time mostly on cheap, high calorie/nutrition things like peanutbutter, eggs, tomatoes, etc., as if I was actually buying cheap meals, plus toilet paper because I thought they'd ding me for running out of that later, but it didn't seem to matter.

 

[RandFan]

Well that you're choosing to make this a conservative vs liberal issue...

No, I'm "choosing" nothing of the sort. Please address the arguments and not what you imagine is my intent.

And you know perfectly well that I have lived and worked among the '3rd world' for 10 years (East Timor, Afghanistan, Zambia, Nigeria)

Then you should understand perfectly well why your earlier argument is false. Hard work and perseverance isn't a guarantee of anything. It only increases the likelihood of improving one's lot in life.

This is one of the memes that I seriously want to attack now that I've moved from the right. I used it so often I've got monitor burn in my head. It's not as if there is no point to hard work and perserverance. It's that the rhetoric is too easily used to stop thinking and debate.

"'Just try harder and be patient'. There, now we don't have to worry about poor people. That solves everything."

Okay, so I don't want to be accused of a straw man. If that isn't your position then give us a workable solution and skip the platitudes because I've said them all on this forum. I know them at least as well as you do. I didn't just wake up one day and decide after 30+ years of active politics, listening to Rush Limbaugh, reading Sowell, Buckley, Safire, Locke and Hume that I wanted to be a bleeding heart liberal. I've come to my position by examining critically and skeptically my previously held beliefs. I debated them and when challenged looked for the facts. I didn't want to just win arguments. I'm more interested in what's true.

Rhetorical device simply won't cut it.

 

[Antiquehunter]

I never entered this thread with any intention to turn it into a political debate. A friend - someone whom I like and chat with regularly - invited me to play a silly game. I thought the game sucked. I stated my reasons. You're trying to draw me into a much larger conversation that is extrapolating all sorts of BS from my SOLE intent in this thread - that a game that intends to have some kind of object lesson, does so poorly.

If I wanted to debate 'pro-poor' ideas, you would find me in the Politics sub-forum, and I am generally quite inconspicuous there.

 

[RandFan]

I never entered this thread with any intention to turn it into a political debate. A friend - someone whom I like and chat with regularly - invited me to play a silly game. I thought the game sucked. I stated my reasons. You're trying to draw me into a much larger conversation that is extrapolating all sorts of BS from my SOLE intent in this thread - that a game that intends to have some kind of object lesson, does so poorly.

If I wanted to debate 'pro-poor' ideas, you would find me in the Politics sub-forum, and I am generally quite inconspicuous there.

Your words, logic and the conclusions they draw have consequences. It is those consequences I'm responding to. I'm not trying to do anything other than to address what you said. I stand by my responses to you. I don't care if you respond or not. It's a free world. Just understand that if you are going to make claims that have social ramifications in the Social Issues forum and I disagree with those claims I'm going to respond. The OP has a valid and appropriate message. You don't have to agree with the OP but if you are going to take a contradictory position simply understand that your position is entirely open to rebuttal.

All the rest is unnecessary. I simply don't care about any of that as it does not advance the discussion, address the OP or rebut my argument.

Thanks

 

[L.Y.S.]

Made it through the month easy. All I had to do was replicate what my parents did to me all my childhood .

 

[Antiquehunter]

Your words, logic and the conclusions they draw have consequences. It is those consequences I'm responding to. I'm not trying to do anything other than to address what you said. I stand by my responses to you. I don't care if you respond or not. It's a free world. Just understand that if you are going to make claims that have social ramifications in the Social Issues forum and I disagree with those claims I'm going to respond. The OP has a valid and appropriate message. You don't have to agree with the OP but if you are going to take a contradictory position simply understand that your position is entirely open to rebuttal.

All the rest is unnecessary. I simply don't care about any of that as it does not advance the discussion, address the OP or rebut my argument.

Thanks

Horse hockey. YOU are the one who is extrapolating here, not me. And you're trying to drag me into some ridiculous discussion about which I have less than zero interest.

The OP was essentially 'here is a game you may like to play'. I played, I commented. You don't agree with my comments and think that puts me in some place on a political spectrum.

I have done nothing BUT address the OP, and I'm simply electing to not rise to the dangling bait.

 

[RandFan]

Horse hockey. YOU are the one who is extrapolating here, not me. And you're trying to drag me into some ridiculous discussion about which I have less than zero interest.

The OP was essentially 'here is a game you may like to play'. I played, I commented. You don't agree with my comments and think that puts me in some place on a political spectrum.

I have done nothing BUT address the OP, and I'm simply electing to not rise to the dangling bait.

Take a deep breath. It's not that serious. I didn't say that you never addressed the OP. I said that your last post was entirely irrelevant to anything, as was this last post. My posts are no more "bait" than your post that took issue with the OP. Your arguments are fair game. If you don't like my response then you can ignore them. Rhetoric just isn't doing anything though and you have managed to derail the thread with an emotional protest.

Please get back on topic, respond to the arguments or ignore me. You are wasting your time with the irrelevancies and stating "horse hockey" doesn't help.

Got it?