Sometimes I wonder....

[Dave Rogers]

Re. "Sometimes I wonder where many in the Truth Movement ............"


You say that as if the 'opposing' side has provided all the answers in the form of irrefutable proof.

I've yet to see an instance where it hasn't presented sufficient evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt (unreasonable doubt, a specialty of the truth movement, is a different matter). If you know of any, don't post them here; start a new thread, and I'm sure we'll be happy to discuss them.

Dave

 

[Brainster]

There is a difference between the leaders and followers.

Most of the 9/11 woo pioneers had woo backgrounds before the attacks. Thierry Meyssan, Alex Jones, Stephen Jones (the jesus paper).

There's a better one for Steven; he was also involved in the Burrows Cave hoax just before getting involved in Trutherism.

 

[dudalb]

You are correct though in that the Truth Movement is unusual in that is made up of both loons from the left and the right. Few movements have had this kind of "unifying" effect. Too bad it couldn't have been for something......productive.

I 100% agree. The JFK assination is the only other CT which seems to have the power to draw from both the wacko left and the wacko right on a equal basis.

 

[dudalb]

Very interesting discussion, and one we have had here from time to time.

Many of you have hit the nail on the head. Notably PB&J and Travis in his OP, seem to fall in with my line of thinking.

There are many facets to the psychology and sociology that is the 9/11 truth movement. Rather than spew a long winded diatribe, let me highlight my main points.

1. Rebellion against "The Man" (presently known as BUSH hating, but also includes Cheney and the Neocons).
2. A longing to belong to something. For the young, it is the same thing that drives them to protest just about everything. For the older it is a combination of nostalgia, and lack of acceptance amongst their own peers.
3. Paranoia. There is a good heaping of this in the movement, some of it pathological.
4. Boredom.
5. Social Inadequacy.

TAM

And if the Democrats win the election, a lot of the hardcore Twoofers will add Obama or Clinton to the "They Were In On It" list.
In otherwards, anybody in the position of authority ,they will automatically hate.

 

[fuelair]

Sometimes I wonder where many in the Truth Movement got their start as deniers of fact and falsifiers of history. Was it borne from some preexisting paranoia? Did they start out as ardent pacifists who ended up associating with the wrong crowd? Were they originally anti-globalization activists or black bloc anarchists (admittedly the two are hard to tell apart as they are both clearly insane) rioting and looting through Seattle's streets? I wonder how many of the UK Truthers got their start at this or this anti-war rally back in 2001?

The answer, of course, is complex because people are complex. People of all sorts have always found their ways to irrational movements for reasons that to them seem entirely rational and consequently a concise answer is not forthcoming. However it doesn't really stop me from.....wondering.

Sometimes I just sit outside and wonder where it's pointed!!

 

[Corsair 115]

In my oft-stated view there is an inability of many of the Truthers to grasp the complexity of the issues which they avow to understand, notwithstanding that qualification in these fields requires many years of university-level education.

I'm tempted to pin part of the blame for that on how Hollywood movies and television shows have conditioned some folks to think that the physics displayed in such entertainment is actually reflective of how the real world works.

 

[Walter Ego]

And if the Democrats win the election, a lot of the hardcore Twoofers will add Obama or Clinton to the "They Were In On It" list.
In otherwards, anybody in the position of authority ,they will automatically hate.

I tend to think with Bush and Cheney gone a lot of steam will go out of the ‘truth’ movement. When we finally get out of Iraq it will recede to just another below the radar kook fringe phenomena.

 

[Brainache]

I tend to think with Bush and Cheney gone a lot of steam will go out of the ‘truth’ movement. When we finally get out of Iraq it will recede to just another below the radar kook fringe phenomena.

Isn't it already "just another below the radar kook fringe phenomena"? It isn't exactly being shouted from the rooftops round my way.

 

[Mr X]

I've yet to see an instance where it hasn't presented sufficient evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt (unreasonable doubt, a specialty of the truth movement, is a different matter). If you know of any, don't post them here; start a new thread, and I'm sure we'll be happy to discuss them.

Dave

Interesting... the government with all its resources and dosh couldn't prove anything, but somehow all you skateboarding dudes can.

 

[cisco]

And if the Democrats win the election, a lot of the hardcore Twoofers will add Obama or Clinton to the "They Were In On It" list.
In otherwards, anybody in the position of authority ,they will automatically hate.

::bong rip:: Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin, man!

 

[Walter Ego]

Isn't it already "just another below the radar kook fringe phenomena"? It isn't exactly being shouted from the rooftops round my way.

The only blips on the media radar are when they disrupt a campaign event like the recent assaults on Bill Clinton. After the election those opportunities will disappear. Maybe they’ll go back to infiltrating talk show audiences and chasing old Jewish men down the street in New York.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

The only blips on the media radar are when they disrupt a campaign event like the recent assaults on Bill Clinton. [...]

What's up with that, anyway? I can't be sure, but it sounds like Bill's been interrupted more than anyone else. Now, I understand that he's very charismatic, but this apparent attraction to him on the part of truthers is curiously strong...

 

[Brainache]

Maybe the New Yorkers will embrace it as a new community event. Just like in that Borat movie... the running of the Jews. Or, maybe not.

 

[Walter Ego]

What's up with that, anyway? I can't be sure, but it sounds like Bill's been interrupted more than anyone else. Now, I understand that he's very charismatic, but this apparent attraction to him on the part of truthers is curiously strong...

I think it's because he's show them up so well, and , perversely, because he’s noticed rather than ignoring them. Like ‘bad’ children they thrive on negative attention. And don’t forget the most recent incident was in Austin, Texas, home base of Alex Jones and a locus of fringe activity.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Interesting... the government with all its resources and dosh couldn't prove anything, but somehow all you skateboarding dudes can.

I'd like to present this as a classic case study to investigate what lies behind the question in the OP. Here is a poster who believes that something about 9-11 hasn't been proved beyond reasonable doubt. When asked to say what it is, he replies by assuming his original conclusion, sarcastically stating a prejudice about the other side in the argument, and advancing a classic, if unusually unfounded, ad hominem fallacy. Clearly he isn't interested in learning anything, because he assumes he already knows everything he needs to, so anyone who disagrees with him is ignorant and wrong. This is a position that can only be arrived at from a combination of poor education and arrogance. Whatever the specific piece of misinformation that triggered his particular set of beliefs, the roots are much deeper.

Dave

 

[uk_dave]

Interesting... the government with all its resources and dosh couldn't prove anything, but somehow all you skateboarding dudes can.

Interesting.... 'truthers' keep telling us how obvious the 'controlled demolition' was and how they spotted it as soon as they watched the footage of the buildings collapsing. And yet people who actually design multi-storey steel structures for a living and people who demolish structures for a living and people who fight fires in multistorey buildings for a living and the millions of rational, sane individuals who have also seen the footage of the collapse can't see these obvious signs.

'Truthers' are special, obviously.

 

[aggle-rithm]

In my oft-stated view there is an inability of many of the Truthers to grasp the complexity of the issues which they avow to understand, notwithstanding that qualification in these fields requires many years of university-level education.

I would find it unlikely that those who had been through such higher-level education would, on the whole, so readily dismiss the depth of understanding required and this certainly seems to be an issue with many of the Truthers we encounter.

It seems to me that being a truther provides a convenient shortcut in their minds. No need to study for years and pass all these tests and prove yourself to "The Man". All the information you need is on the Internets! Just click a few links, and BOOM! You're just as smart as all those egg-head "experts" with their fancy degrees and big words. Truthers can use big words, too, and the sentences they write make just as much sense to them as the ones in those confusing technical papers.

So there!

 

[aggle-rithm]

One of my favorite arguments from the troofers is this one: "Why would we believe something so terrible if it wasn't true? We don't WANT to think the government would do this, but it did!"

I have gone so far as to come up with a fairly long list of reasons why they would choose to believe something unpleasant, and even cited several other instances where people hold cherished beliefs about very unpleasant things for which there is no evidence (everlasting damnation, for one).

These arguments are all dismissed, of course.

 

[Travis]

Wow, I've heard JREF called a lot of things....but skateboarders? Is that some sort of sycophantic non sequitur performance art or something?

 

[tsig]

It seems to me that being a truther provides a convenient shortcut in their minds. No need to study for years and pass all these tests and prove yourself to "The Man". All the information you need is on the Internets! Just click a few links, and BOOM! You're just as smart as all those egg-head "experts" with their fancy degrees and big words. Truthers can use big words, too, and the sentences they write make just as much sense to them as the ones in those confusing technical papers.

So there!

Twoofer anthem:

Another Brick In The Wall