Some thoughts about the Mohammed Cartoons

[bigred]

OK, I call troll.

Finally somebody got it.

Well, back to drawing my cartoons of Muhammed dressed in women's clothes getting it on with a goat and spamming them all over the internet. Praise Allah and God bless America.

 

[mijopaalmc]

Isn't publishing cartoons that depict and religious figure who isn't meant to be depicted the print equivalent of trolling?

 

[sol invictus]

Isn't publishing cartoons that depict and religious figure who isn't meant to be depicted the print equivalent of trolling?

Sure looks that way, doesn't it?

But hey - freedom of expression is a core part of our western values, so such trolling has to be allowed. Except when it offends our dominant religion, of course... then it gets censored with hardly a peep from anyone. So much for those core values!

Personally, if I lived in Denmark I'd just exercise my right to cancel my subscription to any newspaper idiotic enough to publish such inflammatory and Islamophobic trash. And if I were one of the many Danish companies badly hurt by the boycott that followed, I'd be very angry and stop advertising in them. Enough of that and pretty soon those newspapers would be out of business.

 

[bokonon]

In Islam you are instructed to slaughter animals with a sharp knife.

It is the most humane form of ending their life.

In Sunni Islam we execute convicted criminals the same way.

It's hardly the most humane form of ending their life. Drugging them to render them unconscious first would be more humane. This would be more expensive than merely letting them bleed to death, and might affect the quality of the meat, so perhaps it's understandable that the most humane method is not employed when slaughtering animals.

Since no one that I know of proposes that convicted criminals should be eaten after being executed, the quality of the meat is not a consideration.
The minimal cost of anesthesia may be a factor, but I suspect that a more barbaric motive excludes it from use in Islamic executions -- the desire to inflict suffering, in order to punish.

 

[sol invictus]

It's hardly the most humane form of ending their life.

Perhaps he just meant sharp as opposed to dull.

 

[gtc]

Why do people here keep insisting on putting words in my mouth? This is a forum - all the previous posts are there. Please quote where I equated those. If you can't - and you can't - please stop saying I did.

It is pretty effing obvious. Every single time you equate the two you point out the 'insuffarable hypocrisy' of the western media.

The highest court in France, and courts in Italy, and in several other European countries in that case (I can dig up the articles if you insist). More recently, a Spanish newspaper was fined for a cartoon deemed offensive to the royal family there. There are plenty more examples of that in Europe. I can't speak about Australia - but in any case it was European countries which were the targets of most of these protests.

So now you have winnowed down 'the western press' to Europe. Fine. Are you honestly saying that there was nary a word of protest about those cases in their respective countries - can we see the articles? Otherwise you are saying that, as an example, the British press should not have been concerned by people holding banners calling for the beheading of the enemies of Islam unless they were also concerned by the banning of an advert in France and a fine being imposed for a cartoon in Spain? That is silly.

For Jews, there's anti-Semitism. I don't know a word in English to describe systematic prejudice against Muslims. Rather telling, isn't it?

OK, Islamophobia. Note that's a neologism which was hardly or never used until a few years ago.

Before you go and look up the origin of the term anti-semitism and its history in Europe; why don't you tell me why it is 'telling' that there is a word for anti-semitism in English but, until recently, not one for Islam.

You don't publish cartoons like that for the same reason you don't publish cartoons mocking Jews, or blacks in America, or the poor. It's in bad taste and it makes people angry - and it's not funny.

But people do publish cartoons that mock Israel, Judaism and black culture all the time. You also still don't see the difference between mocking a religious figure, mocking a religion and mocking a person.

Sorry to break the news, but "Islam" and "Muslim" are also terms that carry cultural and ethnic significance as well as religious.

Since when?

 

[gtc]

Islamophobic trash.

I hope you are not suggesting that all the cartoons were Islamaphobic trash.

Have you seen them?

 

[sol invictus]

It is pretty effing obvious. Every single time you equate the two you point out the 'insuffarable hypocrisy' of the western media.

In other words, you made it up. OK.

Next time try to keep your own silly thoughts to yourself, and don't attribute them to me.

So now you have winnowed down 'the western press' to Europe. Fine. Are you honestly saying that there was nary a word of protest about those cases in their respective countries - can we see the articles?

I'm not going to do a full article search on that now, although I may later using lexisnexis when I have time. I'd be curious to see. Certainly it was all but ignored by the mainstream press, and I never saw the connection drawn between the right to publish those Islamophobic cartoons, which was trumpeted all over the place, and the fact that even mildly offensive (to Christians or Spanish royalists) ads and cartoons were being censored by the government.

Before you go and look up the origin of the term anti-semitism and its history in Europe; why don't you tell me why it is 'telling' that there is a word for anti-semitism in English but, until recently, not one for Islam.

Considering both England and the USA have been involved in conflict, trade, and competition with the Islamic world throughout their respective histories, and that there were English speakers living in Islamic countries and some Muslims at least in England, it can't be for lack of contact. My supposition, which I think I can support very strongly with textual evidence, is that such prejudice was never regarded as objectionable and therefore no term was regarded as necessary.

What's yours?

Just FYI - large parts of my family suffered very severely from anti-Semitism. Many were murdered, some in Nazi death camps, some in earlier pogroms, and most of the rest were forced to flee their homeland - so I'm quite acutely aware of its history and effects. Thanks for asking, though, and for your kind suggestion that I "look it up".

But people do publish cartoons that mock Israel, Judaism and black culture all the time.

Examples?

Since when?

Since about... oh... 630 or so.

I hope you are not suggesting that all the cartoons were Islamaphobic trash.

Have you seen them?

I didn't say that, did I? Do try to keep those voices inside your head where they belong.

And yes, I have seen them.

 

[gtc]

In other words, you made it up. OK.

Next time try to keep your own silly thoughts to yourself, and don't attribute them to me.I didn't say that, did I? Do try to keep those voices inside your head where they belong.

Get over yourself.