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Some people don't get it.

ysabella said:
I bet some teachers will sneak it in. I grew up in California and I had a great science teacher when I was 13, but when it came to discussing how the universe was created, he very much de-emphasized the scientific theories and talked about Jesus ("And then there was the big bang theory, that says there was a big explosion and matter started...oh, you guy's don't look like you believe that"). Other than that one day, the class was great. I will say, it didn't harm me, although I'm hardly in favor of it.

H'ethetheth: Bueno estente! Chris Waddel!
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Did he teach evolution, or was that not such a scorchio topic either?
 
tsg said:
The absence of the former likely makes the latter unnecessary.

People will tend to obsess about their rights when they are constantly being attacked.
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Generally I agree. I think I would obsess more about my constitution if fundamentalists were seriously trying to reunite church and state or destroy education.
But from here, and I don't mean to offend (much), it looks like it doesn't take much for a lot of americans to yell at eachother that the constitution says exactly what they want it to say, and that what other people are doing is unconstitutional and/or impedes their freedom, liberty and freedom. The fundies as much as the sane people. But that may just be because american christians have that majority persecution complex.

But do tell me if I should stop making ignorant generalisations about americans.:D

brodski said:
Is your education minister a member of "Opus dei" like ours is?
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Could be (I was unaware of "opus Dei" until fifteen seconds ago), but she's probably a Catholic, though I'm not sure. The party she's in is a kind of general christian party, amalgamated from all kinds of christian parties from different denominations.
 
dogjones said:
Did he teach evolution, or was that not such a scorchio topic either?
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Not that I (or my brother, who had the same teacher) remember. It was mostly the day where he talked about the origins of the solar system. I do remember him discussing molecules and how the only person who could pass through the door without opening it would be...Jesus. I'm not sure if that was the same day, or a different one. This teacher, as I recall, was actually LDS.

Creating a solar system, Paul, is very much like making love to a beautiful woman. (Apologies to non-Fast Show fans for all the references.)
 
ungoliant said:
what country can one goto to completely get away from these religious fundamentalists who are determined to return us to the stone age?

russia used to be, but now it has religion.

how about china?

the netherlands?

where are people NOT religious idiots?
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Northern Europe in general is filled with mostly secular idiots, who may or may not believe there's "something out there", or "more between heaven and earth" (Rocket scientists, such as myself, usually refer to this region as "the atmosphere").
Also, I was listening to the infidelguy the other day, and there was this canadian biologist/paleontologist on the show who said he never met a fundie until sometime during highschool. So when you find out where you are, and it turns out to be somewhere in North America, Canada might be a good option.
 
ysabella said:
Creating a solar system, Paul, is very much like making love to a beautiful woman. (Apologies to non-Fast Show fans for all the references.)
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My bad, I should have thought before taking this avatar. I haven't had any 'trouble' since I started posting here though. And all of a sudden I get all these tongue-in-cheeks in two different threads. Cheeks are brilliant, aren't they?
 
H'ethetheth said:
Generally I agree. I think I would obsess more about my constitution if fundamentalists were seriously trying to reunite church and state or destroy education.
But from here, and I don't mean to offend (much), it looks like it doesn't take much for a lot of americans to yell at eachother that the constitution says exactly what they want it to say, and that what other people are doing is unconstitutional and/or impedes their freedom, liberty and freedom. The fundies as much as the sane people. But that may just be because american christians have that majority persecution complex.
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Unfortunately, like any other group, the people who understand it the least are usually the most vocal about it. I don't know if it's an American thing or global, but it seems that people who are emotionally charged about an issue are least likely to do any research to see if their outrage has any foundation in fact. It's kind of like Slashdot that way. See my sig.

But do tell me if I should stop making ignorant generalisations about americans.:D
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As soon as you start, I will :D
 
There was a big victory Tuesday as evolutionist lawyers abandoned their lawsuit against California's only public-school "intelligent design" class. While the media is claiming a loss for intelligent design, the opposite is true: California school districts have a GREEN LIGHT to teach intelligent design of the universe in social science or philosophy classes.
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A famous victory indeed:

The settlement orders the district to cancel the class by Friday next week and says: “No school over which the School District has authority, including the High School, shall offer, presently or in the future, the course entitled "Philosophy of Design or "Philosophy of Intelligent Design" or any other course that promotes or endorses creationism, creation science, or intelligent design.”
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Do creationists ever tell the truth?

Now I come to think of it, if they can imagine they're winning, why don't they just imagine they've won? Why don't they just tell themselves that creationism is being taught in schools. Surely the great advantage of living in a bizarre fantasy world is that you get to pick the fantasy?
 
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Dr Adequate said:
A famous victory indeed:


Do creationists ever tell the truth?

Now I come to think of it, if they can imagine they're winning, why don't they just imagine they've won? Why don't they just tell themselves that creationism is being taught in schools. Surely the great advantage of living in a bizarre fantasy world is that you get to pick the fantasy?
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Ah, but if the imagined that they had won, then they could no longer claim to be persecuted, for the fundies having won is not the goal, but to continue the fight in the name of jebus. I mean, if they didn't have their atheist/naturalist/materialist/scientist bogy-people to battle against, what would they do with their days?
 
brodski said:
Ah, but if the imagined that they had won, then they could no longer claim to be persecuted, for the fundies having won is not the goal, but to continue the fight in the name of jebus. I mean, if they didn't have their atheist/naturalist/materialist/scientist bogy-people to battle against, what would they do with their days?
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Oh they have plenty more targets to go after.... Do you know some women believe that they do not need to obey their husbands! :eek:
 
Dr Adequate said:
Now I come to think of it, if they can imagine they're winning, why don't they just imagine they've won? Why don't they just tell themselves that creationism is being taught in schools. Surely the great advantage of living in a bizarre fantasy world is that you get to pick the fantasy?
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This is an interesting idea. When I'm next up in front of the beak, I'll ignore him telling me that my licence to drive is hanging by a thread. I'll interpret his remarks to mean that I'm an excellent driver and that the actress Ingrid Chauvin will be coming round to my house next weekend for a baby oil massage.

Mmmm - my kind of justice.
 
Darat said:
Oh they have plenty more targets to go after.... Do you know some women believe that they do not need to obey their husbands! :eek:
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Yeah, but that's only individual acts of rebellion, its not "organised persicustion" of christains, like the scientific method is. Though femmanism may be.
 
The whole thing remains that the case was dropped. The Fundamentalists caved in, rather than take it to court. This was not a "victory," it was a painful loss.

But, in order to keep those cards and letters coming, (not to mention the donations), they have to put a good face on a bad situation. Anyone who reads the whole thing is going to figure out it's a lie, and hopefully, in the end, they'll react accordingly.
 
Roadtoad said:
The whole thing remains that the case was dropped. The Fundamentalists caved in, rather than take it to court. This was not a "victory," it was a painful loss.

But, in order to keep those cards and letters coming, (not to mention the donations), they have to put a good face on a bad situation. Anyone who reads the whole thing is going to figure out it's a lie, and hopefully, in the end, they'll react accordingly.
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But press releases arn't written to be read, they are written to generate headlines. Most intersted people will hear the story "dawrin on the retreat" and react in accordance with whatever prejudices they allready had.that is not to say that some prejudiecs are not more reasonable than others.
 
brodski said:
But press releases arn't written to be read, they are written to generate headlines. Most intersted people will hear the story "dawrin on the retreat...
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Except that this press release is pissing against the wind. As they admit in the second sentence, the media has reported it as a victory for evolution. And it is.

* does happy dance *
 
Dr Adequate said:
Except that this press release is pissing against the wind. As they admit in the second sentence, the media has reported it as a victory for evolution. And it is.

* does happy dance *
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It is in no way a victory for evolution, because evolution was irrelevant here. The class was not about evolution, it was about religion. It was a victory for the principle of separation of church and state.

It is very important to remember the difference. If Dover had been decided the other way, certain people would have sought to portray that as a defeat for evolution. They would have been wrong. The judge's decision on whether or not a religious theory can be taught in school has no impact at all on whether the theory of evolution is valid.

Evolution is a theory - it cannot win or lose in the context of a court case. It stands or fall not by the decisions of school boards, courts or anyone else as to what can and cannot be taught in school, but by the principles of science. If any part of the theory is disproved by evidence then no amount of victories in court can make the theory correct, only amending the theory to conform with the available evidence.
 
CFLarsen said:
Isn't it redundant to say "unnecessarily" redundant?

Is there anything redundant that is necessary?
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Absolutely. In engineering, they call that "backup systems," and the contract often specifies them as a necessary part of the work to be done.
 
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