Some observations and statistics about this subforum

[Walter Ego]

What types of threads are the non-truthers starting?

By my count, 75% (119) of those 158 threads are about truther personalities or are "calling out" threads (directed to individuals or to "truthers" in general), asking questions that the thread starter likely knows will not receive rational answers.

I've considered the idea that it's important to report on everything the truthers do. But the majority of these threads consist of "Dumb truther did/said something dumb." That's not news. It's what we expect of them. And this isn't like the case of civil rights organizations that track underground hate groups. The truthers still clinging to their sinking ship are openly, proudly, stupid. We're not going to see a surprise resurgence of an underground truth movement. And since these people don't seem to have much shame, posting these things to shame them doesn't seem to make sense. I doubt that many of them are aware of these posts anyway.

Ouch!

I didn't know we were being graded.

 

[Caper]

Good post Gravy. For what it is worth, the work you have done is incredible and valuable.

Personally, I kind of like the argument. I kind of troll a truther group on facebook and I enjoy going on there and insulting and ridiculing dumb ideas. I donèt think it is paricularly effective. But I do enjoy it.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Thank you gravy for a very thoughtful and sobering post.

As of this moment, I am drastically cutting back on my participation in this forum. The war is over, the twoof movement is dead. There is no more to be done here, certainly not for me at least.

Debunkers, good luck and God bless.

Twoofers... grow up.

See you all around, I guess.

 

[beachnut]

outstanding

thank you

 

[Mince]

Wow, it appears that posting has almost ceased since the posting of this thread. Great post, if unrealistic. Apparently it influenced more than a few people. I'm writing this more as a "bump" so that others might read it. If it's not on the first page, or even in the top half of the first page, many people will miss its message; and still more will read the OP in its entirety and still miss its message. Either way, good job.

 

[Baylor]

The ATS/JREF comparison is interesting. Can you imagine how many sock puppets plague that forum?

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Great post Gravy... and Great advice to the boot...

My issue is less on aggression and more on persistence with arguing points when my opponents will never be convinced regardless. So in several aspects your post applies to me as it does anyone else.

 

[tomwaits]

This subforum is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.

 

[AZCat]

Great post. It would be nice if the mods stickied it. Please?

 

[laodoggie]

I just read that advertising is coming to the JREF forums.
So it would seem that with the numbers you have posted
this section will generate the most money from ad dollars!

Your argument makes clear that there is money in these posts, good or bad!

Good work Mark!
We need more content and less bickering.

 

[Mark Carter]

I have seen that it is the other way around. The debunkers have been running away from me for quite some time now. I am glad that I am on this forum now so the Debunkers can face me because I have compiled a vast amount of information that 911 was definetly an inside job that was pulled off by our Intelligence Community. I was just on another 911 truth forum and basically took over the entire forum with my articles about how 911 was an inside job.

 

[Miragememories]

"We often can't think of any way to reach a truther. Those cases are usually quickly apparent. And as the remaining truthers become more entrenched in their beliefs, they're only going to be harder to reach."

9/11 Truth Seeker: "We often can't think of any way to reach a believer.

Those cases are usually quickly apparent.

And as the remaining believers become more entrenched in their beliefs, they're only going to be harder to reach."

 

[Arus808]

Uh, you've been on this forum for 1 day. How are "debunkers" running away. Actually, all that you've posted have been countered and you were referred to using the SEARCH button on this forum, as you are REPEATING the same debunked claims that have been addressed here.

Which goes to the heart of this thread. You are now derailing this. Take your issues up in its own thread.

 

[Gravy]

I have seen that it is the other way around. The debunkers have been running away from me for quite some time now. I am glad that I am on this forum now so the Debunkers can face me because I have compiled a vast amount of information that 911 was definetly an inside job that was pulled off by our Intelligence Community. I was just on another 911 truth forum and basically took over the entire forum with my articles about how 911 was an inside job.

Welcome to the forums, Mark.

Before you unleash this vast amount of information on us, I'd like to suggest that you use this forum's search function (which is not the best, but you can also try searching with Google within the domain randi.org), and checking my website for the topics of your concern. At my site you'll also find links to many debunking sites that cover hundreds of questions posed by the 9/11 truth movement. Most of these issues have been discussed ad nauseum here. It may be that debunkers are "running" from you because they've heard your story a thousand times. "Taking over" another forum isn't something to be proud of if what you're presenting isn't factually accurate or relevant.

After doing that, if you really think you're on to something new and important, you need to consider how to share that with the world. This forum is unlikely to be the place for that, but people here can certainly show you if you've gone astray.

Try to look at the big picture here: if you've got all this evidence, what are you going to do with it? Argue with strangers on internet forums or get real investigators and prosecutors involved? This is about solving the horrible crimes that you think are unsolved, and prosecuting the wrongdoers, right? Right?

May I suggest going to the press with your information? If what you say is true, this is front page news for every newspaper in the world (many of which are not sympathetic to U.S. interests). And there are many, many news outlets in the U.S. that are not sympathetic to the Bush administration or to intelligence agencies. I hope you understand that.

Does what I've said make sense? Will you do it?

 

[T.A.M.]

This thread no longer has "Moderated" status placed in the title listing, yet it is still being moderated? Is this a glitch?

Thanks

TAM

 

[Gravy]

9/11 Truth Seeker: "We often can't think of any way to reach a believer.

Those cases are usually quickly apparent.

And as the remaining believers become more entrenched in their beliefs, they're only going to be harder to reach."

Miragememories, you seem to have completely missed the point of my thread. If your statement above reflects your reality, then why are you still posting here? You've made your points. Unless you have something new and important to add, just walk away, as I've encouraged debunkers to do. Do you think that's a sensible idea?

 

[A W Smith]

9/11 Truth Seeker: "We often can't think of any way to reach a believer.

Those cases are usually quickly apparent.

And as the remaining believers become more entrenched in their beliefs, they're only going to be harder to reach."

You cant? really? after we have asked you for seven years? all it takes is to show us something, anything. us so called 'believers' get wrong. You have been asked repeatedly for a hypotheses or physical evidence but at this point have scurried away safely into the dark protective cave of non committal, Vague semantics, quote mining, arguments from incredulity, No hypothesis, No physical evidence. We have shown over and over and over again that both hands clenched behind your back are empty. Let me ask you Miragememories, Where do you go from here? How do you fight an "infowar" with no info?

 

[Miragememories]

Miragememories, you seem to have completely missed the point of my thread. If your statement above reflects your reality, then why are you still posting here? You've made your points. Unless you have something new and important to add, just walk away, as I've encouraged debunkers to do. Do you think that's a sensible idea?

Maybe all these usage statistics you've compiled merely reveal a continued hardcore interest on both sides.

In spite of how disinterested you've become.

Your statistical analysis of subforum activity, and the personal comments which follow it, indicate a disappointment, or more accurately, a disapproval of the pattern of behavior you see in this subforum's pro Official Theory membership.

In case you are unaware Gravy, there is more to discussing a serious subject like 9/11 than directing people to the canned answers you've determined best fit their concerns.

Is there a timeline for the discussion of 9/11 that I was unaware of?

With the world's troubles coming to a head, and with the roots of discord lying in the U.S., I expect many more members of the public are going to take interest in the truth of what they've been told, particularly going back to that key moment in history, 9/11.

Posting disapproval about the fact that members are still engaging in discussion about what you consider to be a dying story, only legitimizes my concerns about this subforum being bullied into total suppression of free and open discussion.

There should be no timetable for ending 9/11 discussion.

MM

 

[Walter Ego]

What types of threads are the non-truthers starting?

By my count, 75% (119) of those 158 threads are about truther personalities or are "calling out" threads (directed to individuals or to "truthers" in general), asking questions that the thread starter likely knows will not receive rational answers.

I've considered the idea that it's important to report on everything the truthers do. But the majority of these threads consist of "Dumb truther did/said something dumb." That's not news. It's what we expect of them. And this isn't like the case of civil rights organizations that track underground hate groups. The truthers still clinging to their sinking ship are openly, proudly, stupid. We're not going to see a surprise resurgence of an underground truth movement. And since these people don't seem to have much shame, posting these things to shame them doesn't seem to make sense. I doubt that many of them are aware of these posts anyway.

Mark, keep in mind that not all of us “non-truthers” are debunkers and that not all of us have been active on this forum for the years and years as some of you “hard fact” types have. For myself, I was blissfully unaware of the truth movement until December of last year.

Having gone out of my way last February to meet some real life truthers (all three of them) in Savannah, I really don’t have any desire to engage anymore of them in debate, and if I did it would not be online. Of late I just make silly little, mostly satirical, videos that I put up on YouTube.

(I’ve also made serious videos and videos of truther/debunker debates and started a video blog to collect debunking and factual videos about 9/11 in one place on the internet.)

Honestly, at this late stage in the game, what is there left to do but laugh at truthers?

No forum can be all things to all people. You obviously believe this forum is important (and it is) but for many of us it’s a part-time internet activity and is not life or death (and given the almost total failure of the truthers and their “movement,” why should it be?)

While agreeing with you about not feeding the trolls and not wasting time bringing up old already debunked topics, I wish you (and the mods) would be less anal-retentive about what “belongs” on this forum.

 

[Quad4_72]

Maybe all these usage statistics you've compiled merely reveal a continued hardcore interest on both sides.

In spite of how disinterested you've become.

Your statistical analysis of subforum activity, and the personal comments which follow it, indicate a disappointment, or more accurately, a disapproval of the pattern of behavior you see in this subforum's pro Official Theory membership.

In case you are unaware Gravy, there is more to discussing a serious subject like 9/11 than directing people to the canned answers you've determined best fit their concerns.

Is there a timeline for the discussion of 9/11 that I was unaware of?

With the world's troubles coming to a head, and with the roots of discord lying in the U.S., I expect many more members of the public are going to take interest in the truth of what they've been told, particularly going back to that key moment in history, 9/11.

Posting disapproval about the fact that members are still engaging in discussion about what you consider to be a dying story, only legitimizes my concerns about this subforum being bullied into total suppression of free and open discussion.

There should be no timetable for ending 9/11 discussion.

MM

The only discussion needed about 9/11 anymore is about why the government ignored warnings and it's policies about sharing information between agencies. As far as the event itself, the floor should now be closed for discussion. There are no more unanswered questions. Case closed. The next step is for twoofers to realize that they are WRONG.