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Some dweeb nobody knows whines about food in America

Actually nothing he is saying is unique or new here in the US. We have many people advocating already for such changes.

... And also in the UK. So I think it will be interesting to see how a plan that was successful in the UK goes when tried in the USA, fighting against the "Not Invented Here" attitude on top of everything else.
 
While this is true, I confess a small amount of sympathy with Travis' point of view. It took me many years before I stopped automatically avoiding anything that was described to me as "It's good for you!"

It's not an alien point of view to me. Only after a health scare I got myself educated - a bit - about nutrition and it's not really helpful that there are so many different theories/opinions/fads around. "Eggs are bad" - "No, they aren't", "Salt is a killer" - "Meep, not necessarily.", "Eat complex carbohydrates and you'll live forever" andsoforth andsoon.

And recently there's been a small movement of vegetarian evangelism that attempts to equate a meat-eating diet with the destruction of the global environment, suggesting that going vege is necessary to combat global warming and save civilisation as we know it. That annoys me too.

If I came across as one of THEM, I apologise to all concerned. That certainly wasn't my intention. I'm actually one of those hypocrites, who happily enjoys her steak, chop, burger, but would instantly turn vegetarian if I had to kill the animals for my meat.

Still, what Travis wrote in that post was plain and simply wrong.


So yeah, I see where Travis is coming from. It's not about what you do and do not eat, but the proportions in which you eat it.

Or as Garfield put it: "A lettuce leaf garnished with a pound of mayonnaise."
 
I'm actually one of those hypocrites, who happily enjoys her steak, chop, burger, but would instantly turn vegetarian if I had to kill the animals for my meat.
Me too. I'm quite happy to let others do the dirty work, thank you very much, and I'll enjoy the product.

Or as Garfield put it: "A lettuce leaf garnished with a pound of mayonnaise."
Exactly. Eat less, mostly plants.
 
So I happened across a couple of things.

First, here's a blog by a schoolteacher who has undertaken to eat school lunch everyday. I have to admit that some of what is served barely qualifies as food, in my opinion.

Also from the blog -- a link to the speech in question:

 
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Shows how we should refer to primary source - his call for "local" is about the food being prepared locally.
 
I have never experienced a UK or US school cafeteria - are healthy alternatives available for students who wish them? Because if not, Checkmite's concern over the kids eating good stuff because they are forced instead of because they want it rings rather hollow. Surely a call for freedom of choice, if necessary, should go both ways?

In Sweden there are no packed lunches, everyone ate in the cafeteria in my day(often the teachers as well). Through infant and middle school, lunch was just as obligatory as any subject and whether you ate or not you sat at the table for at least 20 minutes before you were allowed to go to recess. There was only one option available - vegetarians and non pork eaters also had one option each. There were no sweets or puddings available - although for special situations the entire meal was swapped for a pudding, i.e lunch was nothing but rice pudding in a fruit sauce or rosehip soup with ice cream - the school had no tuck shop and we were banned from leaving school premises during recess, so nearby shopkeepers only got the skivers' and the obstinates' business.

Somehow, I survived this - despite being a childhood picky eater, often held against my will over a plate of something that made me dry heave. In infant school, there was no slop bucket. We were expected to eat up, and we also did not get to size our portions ourselves. I often spent the entire lunch hour in a war of wills with exasperated dinner ladies who had better things to do.

There was nothing wrong with the choice of dishes but the quality was not brilliant, and for me and my finicky ways it was sometimes a night mare. But I did have school mates who loved it, because their parents' cooking was even worse.

The food would be prepared in a central kitchen in town and delivered warm to nearby schools, chilled and heated in other schools and frozen, thawed and re-heated in the outliers. The outliers seemed to have little to do with geography and more to do with demographics - I for one went to four different schools for infant, middle, high and upper secondary and managed to be in the frozen group for three of them.

Personally, I loathed most of the stuff we got in the cafeteria, and famously threw up on my plate at one point trying to force down some lappskojs. This dish is related to lobscouse, but the Swedish version consists of mashed potato and reindeer leftovers. I couldn't abide the school mash, which was made from mainly potato stach and old gym mats, at the best of times (coincidentally, the pancakes were also made from potato starch and old gym mats, so they were never the kind of treat they were meant to be. Served with fruit sauce or lingonberry jam, which everyone knows is a savoury condiment, and not a sweet topping)

Despite this, I would never, ever, bloody anything ever, with grown up hindsight, have swapped my school dinners with the ones I saw Jamie Oliver fight in Jamie's School Dinners, I might have found them easier to force down, but it would have made me fat, poorly and stupid. I didn't die from skipping lunch two days out of three, but Turkey Twizzlers would likely have killed my by now if I had grown up on them. On the other hand, if you had given picky, finicky me a choice, as a kid, to swap my school dinners with what Jamie cooked for those kids, the dinner ladies needn't have worked overtime ever again.

Sometimes we need to be bloody grown ups and make unpopular decisions. "I know that you think that you think **** McNuggets taste better than a fresh lasagna, but I'm telling you, you haven't got that choice."

That is being a grown up. If kids were capable of making good long term decisions for themselves we would let them drive and vote.

When I returned to school, as a teacher, I was lucky enough to wind up in a place that had a cook who oversaw the entire process. From purchasing and cooking to serving. The food was excellent both in taste and nutritional value and the kids loved it too, even the picky and finicky ones chose to eat more often than they refused. Still no puddings though. In fact, sweets were banned on the premises and the teachers lounge did not have a cookie jar or biscuit kitty, because we were expected to set an example. Birthday girls and boys were allowed to bring in a small treat for their class, though.

There is such a thing as something in between tofu and hair shirt casserole, and warmed up Cheetos.

It's called "food".
 
In California almost all the kids eat packed lunches. The schools only provide lunches to those on government assistance programs and do everything they can to avoid doing that if possible (cafeteria staff are expensive).

I should point out that a bit of my issues with "eat healthy nuts" is irrational. But the only people who have ever gotten in my face about what I eat were self-righteous vegans. Also the only people out here who generally make an effort for "eating healthy" initiatives (like in schools) are, again, self-righteous vegans. It always starts off sounding like a good deal (try to encourage kids to not drink sugar sodas) but before long it becomes apparent the whole thing was just an excuse for them to go into a "meat is murder and eggs are torture" tirade. The initiate invariably fails at that point and you're right back where you started. At a certain point you start connecting the two at an emotional level.
 
Then this example should help you untangle your emotional response as he is all for people eating meat, if they want.
 
Wow, I had an unusual amount of typos in that previous post.


It would be refreshing to have someone talk about eating healthy that doesn't have a bucket of fake blood nearby to throw on the "animal murderers." If done in California it would probably be the first time that wasn't the case.
 
I do not doubt it happens elsewhere, but I live in HippieLand surrounded by vegetarians and vegans... yet whenever I've been lectured about eating right it rarely delves into a promotion of vegetarianism.
 
Wow, I had an unusual amount of typos in that previous post.


It would be refreshing to have someone talk about eating healthy that doesn't have a bucket of fake blood nearby to throw on the "animal murderers." If done in California it would probably be the first time that wasn't the case.

He's more likely to serve them blood.
 
Really, to the OP, we can do better in these forums than your post.

Is he a dweeb? I certainly don't think so. That approach to the topic certainly seems a bit ad hominem and unnecessary.

Does nobody know who he is? I do, lots of people do. He pretty famous in other parts.

Is he "whining"? I certainly wouldn't call it that. I think it's a distortion of his efforts to call it that.


On a few other points raised earlier in the thread, removing junk food options from schools is a good idea, if not an obvious one. Getting kids healthy food, getting them acclimated to balanced meals, and the idea that adults and teachers should perhaps limit kids choices is what I think of as adult responsibility with kids. No I don't think kids should be able to just have anything they want. No, having folks push for healthier foods in schools and more locally grown options seems like a idea it would be hard to argue against. Go figure.
 
He's more likely to serve them blood.
He eats soldiers?! :eye-poppi

(Okay, is that what toast with a Marmite or Vegemite schmear is called?)

<snip>having folks push for healthier foods in schools and more locally grown options seems like a idea it would be hard to argue against.
You would think. But since ultimately it's the adults who make the decision what gets offered in the school lunches, and they decide with their wallet. And stupid decisions abound from there.
 
On a few other points raised earlier in the thread, removing junk food options from schools is a good idea, if not an obvious one.

I am against just removing the junk food. Kids need to learn to make choices. My high school had a Taco Bell built right on campus (I'm not joking, it was staffed by kids who got credit for cooking classes)....it also had a salad bar and both were equally visited and my school actually had some of the lowest levels of obesity in the state.

No, having folks push for healthier foods in schools and more locally grown options seems like a idea it would be hard to argue against. Go figure.

Getting kids access to healthy foods is key but I have yet to figure out why there has to be any incentive for "locally grown" food.
 
Quick reply from phone

I think kids get more than enough choice in life. I'm way ok with the school taking the position of setting a good example I stead of providing junk food choices. It developes habits of healthy eating that are critical. I think it's part of what school is supposed to be doing. It's teaching by example.

Locally grown suggests fresh, in season, real food that hasn't been wastefully flown around the world to you, or picked before it was ripe and shipped unripened. The total impact, health and economic and community, of buying local fresh real produce matters. I think local, fresh, in season food tastes and is better for you. Besides being he right thing to do by those other metrics, that sort of food just tastes better to me, and better taste should be an easy sale.
 
I would like to see some evidence that locally grown food is any healthier, or cheaper, than stuff grown a few towns over. How does one even procure the locally grown food without sneaking onto the huge corporate farms and stealing it? Because, around here at least, they sure don't sell it in small batches.
 
I can only give my personal experience as an ex Greengocer in the UK. I had many different local suppliers (within 25 miles of a store) all of them except my Egg supplier ( I collected them at a small discount) delivered direct to me. The supply is fresher and tastier, I dont know about healthier, my customers certainly percieved it to be.
I always paid market price ( that is, what the supplier would get selling to a central market) For me it gave a better shelf life and good marketing potential. I used to have a photo of the supplier, Name and farm name displayed for each localy supplied line. I dont know what the retail situation is where you are Travis but it is unlikely that you will find any local produce in supermarkets. Local indepedent Greengrocers would be more likely or farm shops if you have them where you are.

ETA
Forgot to say.. I always sold local produce at the same price as non local
 
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Shows how we should refer to primary source - his call for "local" is about the food being prepared locally.

Curious.

My interpretation, then, is that all the people that were trying to defend the interpretation of "preparing local food" are simply apologists.
 
Curious.

My interpretation, then, is that all the people that were trying to defend the interpretation of "preparing local food" are simply apologists.

Or they could simply hold a view that "locally sourced" food is a good choice to make and were arguing for that point, whether Jamie argued that or not wouldn't change those arguments. However those criticising him for holding such a view (and of course my listening may have wandered and I may have missed it) would simply be wrong and I'd expect to see such folk re-evaluate their criticism and retract at least that part of it.

ETA: And "apologists" for what?
 

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