Soldier Beaten Down, Discharged

[evildave]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3812713.stm

This one pisses me off on many levels.

Primarily, the 'outrage' is over this soldier being 'mistakenly' beaten.

WTF???

It's outrageous that any beatings are taking place!!!

So much for that 'presumed innocent' status we once took for granted when our government obeyed what's left of its constitution.

Now they'll just beat, torture, etc. *anybody* who ends up in the wrong room. Secret prisons. Overseas prisons. Indefinite imprisonment without charge. Torture. Killing people and calling it 'natural causes'.

It makes criminal investigation a lot easier, too. Just grab any random person off the street, deny them sleep, food, clothing, etc. and torture them indefinitely until they 'confess', and you have a crime solved! How convenient is that?

It makes me absolutely sick to be an American these days.

 

[Tmy]

This morning I heard a story about some Gitmo priosners being hidden from Red Cross investigators.

GW is totally f'n up everything. Hes turning the US into that monster these 3rd world contries always believed we were.

 

[Rob Lister]

My skeptic meter is twitching a little. Some parts of his story defy logic. More likely he is telling on part of the story. I'm not buying.

 

[Rob Lister]

This morning I heard a story about some Gitmo priosners being hidden from Red Cross investigators.

GW is totally f'n up everything. Hes turning the US into that monster these 3rd world contries always believed we were.

That depends on the circumstances. What was gained by isolating the prisoner? We don't know.

 

[Tmy]

Thats just it. We never know crap. The whitehouse says "trust us" them we get all these abuse stories. When you hide somthingthat usually indicates somthing bad has been done.

 

[PygmyPlaidGiraffe]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3812713.stm

...

Primarily, the 'outrage' is over this soldier being 'mistakenly' beaten.

WTF???

It's outrageous that any beatings are taking place!!!

Yeah, agreed.


I posted a link to the follow-up of the story here , same link in fact. If the story is true, it is painting a disturbing story about the treatment of human beings detained in American run institutions around the world.

 

[evildave]

I certainly don't feel afraid of the terrorists. They're an incredibly overblown 'threat'. I take vastly larger risks every time I get behind the wheel of my car or take a walk to the mail box.

I do fear our own government now. All it takes is for some bureaucrat to get a bug up his ass about something off-color I *say*, and I could be naked, starved and soaked down in a cold concrete box whenever I'm not actively being beaten. And they'll look into my history, find I've had military survival and resistance training and decide I need an extra dose.

Just superb.


Of course, all of these little stories help to make it easier to recruit terrorists, easier for terrorists to get backing, easier for terrorists to get other support. Making martyrs.

I'm sure the solution that will make the most sense to our insane and out of control government right now will be similar to their insane and out of control idea to 'fix' the Iraqi prison photo problem: Ban digital cameras and camera phones! Crank up the illegal federally funded propaganda and start squeezing the FCC licenses of whatever news organizations carry a story they don't like.


This soldier was 'mistakenly' beaten once and he has brain damage and seizures. "Oopsy!"

Think about the poor sods who've been there for years, now. Damaging the very brains you want information out of (making the big assumption the information you want exists in that brain to begin with) sounds like an incredibly ineffective and above all stupid interrogation technique. Like pounding a hard drive with a hammer to recover data. Morons.

 

[evildave]

Re: Re: Soldier Beaten Down, Discharged

My skeptic meter is twitching a little. Some parts of his story defy logic. More likely he is telling on part of the story. I'm not buying.

With stories like our abuses, and the US admitting they've violated the Geneva Convention, it's getting a little harder to pay attention to that 'twitch', isn't it?

Just how far must we turn the squelch before only believable stories come through the noise?

 

[Blue Monk]

evildave, I am so 100% with you on this it hurts.

The article sickens me as the only thing they seem to be concerned with was that it was an American soldier. Not one single word or question asking what the hell they were doing beating anyone’s head on the floor.

After so many years of normal political ‘scandals’ where a fair amount of hyperbole abounds on both sides I am astounded and horrified at the events developing in our world today.

The only thing more appalling than the actual actions being taken in the American name, many so down right creepy it gives me the chills, many that mirror word for word the actions I was taught as a child that made the Soviet Union ‘evil,’ is this bland, matter of fact and unquestioning reporting that appear to be totally oblivious to the rather obvious and far more sinister implications.

Even allowing for some skepticisims over the accuracy of the account that does not excuse the reporting. Some people are simply not asking the right questions.

 

[Rob Lister]

Re: Re: Re: Soldier Beaten Down, Discharged

Just how far must we turn the squelch before only believable stories come through the noise?

Each story stands on its on merits. I try not to be biased by other stories...especially those with so little backing. IOW, I try not to stereotype unless absolutely necessary. Even when I do have to stereotype, I don't let emotion overpower logic...at least I try not to.

Like crime, abuses happen.

 

[Rob Lister]

Some people are simply not asking the right questions.

Sometimes asking the 'right questions' gets you answers that make the story a non-story. I think there's a little of that in this story.

 

[Blue Monk]

Sometimes asking the 'right questions' gets you answers that make the story a non-story. I think there's a little of that in this story.

I certainly agree with you that reporters often and creatively choose which facts to report to justify the newsworthiness of a piece.

However, in that vein, I believe in opting for a story about a soldier that got beat up as opposed to shedding light on a growing National and highly controversial scandal that suggests our government in involved in systematic and illegal prisoner abuse, this reporter may not have used the most sound journalistic judgment.

 

[evildave]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Soldier Beaten Down, Discharged

Each story stands on its on merits. I try not to be biased by other stories...especially those with so little backing. IOW, I try not to stereotype unless absolutely necessary. Even when I do have to stereotype, I don't let emotion overpower logic...at least I try not to.

Like crime, abuses happen.

"Abuses happen."

It doesn't bother you a bit that there might be men paid by our government just standing by in a room to beat down anyone in a jumpsuit and a bag on his head, who happens to be pushed through a door? Men unsupervised enough to choke someone and bang his head on things?

And not just in one room, and not in one place, if even a small sampling of the stories that are comming to light about 'abuses' are true.

OK, I'll admit there was a SNAFU: Somebody forgot to tell them to 'be nice' in their interrogation this time around because the victim is an American volunteer for a training session, instead of someone assumed to be a terrorist (or assumed to know something about terrorists), like they're supposed to routinely 'deal with' in this manner.

 

[Rob Lister]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Soldier Beaten Down, Discharged

"Abuses happen."

It doesn't bother you a bit that there might be men paid by our government just standing by in a room to beat down anyone in a jumpsuit and a bag on his head, who happens to be pushed through a door? Men unsupervised enough to choke someone and bang his head on things?

Yep, it does. But the question remains, is that the way it actually happened or is that just the way it is reported?

And not just in one room, and not in one place, if even a small sampling of the stories that are comming to light about 'abuses' are true.

Like crime, abuses happen. Like crime, it should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Or we could just get all emotional about it.

 

[hammegk]

I certainly don't feel afraid of the terrorists. They're an incredibly overblown 'threat'. I take vastly larger risks every time I get behind the wheel of my car or take a walk to the mail box.

I do fear our own government now.

I'll be darned. I'd never looked up Coarsegold; thought it was Australian & you were AUP's twin. Califunia nutcases are apparently similar.

An image I see is the live feed of plane 2 hitting the second tower while reruns of plane 1 were on. Then reports of the pentagon strike, and 93 on the ground.

Do you live near any strategic targets in Coarsegold? Three-Mile Island might have been the target instead of just the White House or Capital Building. And you are afraid of our government!

You guys haven't even received a few anthrax envelopes. Maybe next time it'll be a cropduster load? Or how about an LPG supertanker in New York harbor? Or San Francisco?

On the current story that has your panties in a wad, you, or I, will never know The Truth about the matter.

 

[Blue Monk]

I'll be darned. I'd never looked up Coarsegold; thought it was Australian & you were AUP's twin. Califunia nutcases are apparently similar.

An image I see is the live feed of plane 2 hitting the second tower while reruns of plane 1 were on. Then reports of the pentagon strike, and 93 on the ground.

Do you live near any strategic targets in Coarsegold? Three-Mile Island might have been the target instead of just the White House or Capital Building. And you are afraid of our government!

You guys haven't even received a few anthrax envelopes. Maybe next time it'll be a cropduster load? Or how about an LPG supertanker in New York harbor? Or San Francisco?

On the current story that has your panties in a wad, you, or I, will never know The Truth about the matter.

Perhaps we’re just not so scared of the terrorist boogie-man that we’re willing to give up our liberties and principals that so many of our patriotic ancestors gave their lives to protect.

You are free, however, to go hide under your bed. I’m sure your government will eventually beat the truth out of the right person and make it all go away.

 

[Rob Lister]

Perhaps we’re just not so scared of the terrorist boogie-man that we’re willing to give up our liberties and principals that so many of our patriotic ancestors gave their lives to protect.

To which liberties do you refer. To which ancestors? I admit there was a lot of lip service to liberties and principals during our various military campaigns, but much of it was just that, lip service.

 

[hammegk]

You are free, however, to go hide under your bed.

Yeah, if I lived in Austin, I would feel the same, maybe? Actually, no, I wouldn't.

Brushing on your arabic? How is the conversion going? What do the females you know think about the veils & floor-length garb?

As to hiding in the USA, I prefer fighting on foreign soil, by US military trained & paid to do so. It's called "national security" and it's the one thing I expect my government to provide; ask your parents: they might know what that means. If that doesn't work, try grandpa & grandma.

 

[evildave]

To which liberties do you refer. To which ancestors? I admit there was a lot of lip service to liberties and principals during our various military campaigns, but much of it was just that, lip service.

Habeus Corpus. The right to a fair and speedy trial. No "cruel and unusual punishment", to which the current administration has resolved to make "usual".

The usual stuff that went away for the "war on drugs", pinnacle of success that it is.

 

[Rob Lister]

Habeus Corpus. The right to a fair and speedy trial. No "cruel and unusual punishment", to which the current administration has resolved to make "usual".

The usual stuff that went away for the "war on drugs", pinnacle of success that it is.

You make my point for me. How many fair and speedy trials did the Japanese-Americans get in during WWII? If today was then, all Arab-American's might well be locked up as well. Cruel and unusual punishment for whom? After WWII, during the occupation of Germany, f you were caught out of uniform and even suspected of being a spy, you were shot. Well, actually they gave you a real dang quick and speedy trial and then shot you. If today was then, there would be no 'prison scandal' because there very few of the prisoners in question ever wore a uniform. The war on drugs is indeed an excellent example but it started will before Bush took office.

Edit to fix my spelling errors: too many, just do your best to figure it out.