Soil Specialist from Down Under- Flight 93 Crashed in Shanksville? "Nonsense!"

[LashL]

Please read post 173...

I did read it. It does not address the fact that you deliberately tried to present yourself as a soil specialist of some sort in your paper.

Now, please respond to the rest of my post, if you don't mind.

 

[triforcharity]

Here rewey, I will use websters def. of expert.

noun 1. a person who has special skill or knowledge in some particular field; specialist; authority: a language expert.

2. Military. a. the highest rating in rifle marksmanship, above that of marksman and sharpshooter.
b. a person who has achieved such a rating.


–adjective

3. possessing special skill or knowledge; trained by practice; skillful or skilled (often fol. by in or at): an expert driver; to be expert at driving a car.

4. pertaining to, coming from, or characteristic of an expert: expert work; expert advice.


Notice the hilites sir. Would this not apply to you?? I believe they would.

 

[Rewey]

Here rewey, I will use websters def. of expert.

noun 1. a person who has special skill or knowledge in some particular field; specialist; authority: a language expert.

–adjective

3. possessing special skill or knowledge; trained by practice; skillful or skilled (often fol. by in or at): an expert driver; to be expert at driving a car.

Notice the hilites sir. Would this not apply to you?? I believe they would.

So by that definition, you would say that the garbage collector is an expert? I'm sure there's a button or something that requires pushing to make the bins go up, but I'd have to look for it. Is that enough 'special knowledge' to make him an expert?

I can also tie my own shoes, but it's not something I've been able to do for my whole life. I had to learn it and practice when I was a kid. But now, heck, I can even tie my shoes in the dark. But I don't call myself a shoe tying expert!

Rewey

 

[LashL]

I did read it. It does not address the fact that you deliberately tried to present yourself as a soil specialist of some sort in your paper.

Now, please respond to the rest of my post, if you don't mind.

Ahem.

 

[Justin39640]

So by that definition, you would say that the garbage collector is an expert? I'm sure there's a button or something that requires pushing to make the bins go up, but I'd have to look for it. Is that enough 'special knowledge' to make him an expert?

I can also tie my own shoes, but it's not something I've been able to do for my whole life. I had to learn it and practice when I was a kid. But now, heck, I can even tie my shoes in the dark. But I don't call myself a shoe tying expert!

Rewey

youd probably get your hand chopped off in the thing thinking like that

blowing things importance off usually has disastrous results
over here we have another agency
its called OSHA (occupational health and safety administration)

they have thousands of reports of people with that exact mindset who are now missing limbs or no longer among us

 

[Justin39640]

I love this scenario.

"I've just got word of an impending, large-scale, multiple-target terrorist attack inside the US which threatens the lives of thousands. I might just send someone a quick fax..."

Does ignoring or not acting on Intel really constitute LIHOP? I would have thought there would have to be more intent behind it to be considered LIHOP...

um i think i was just trying to make a point

you say this even though from the same exact post you thought yesterday "we were in the same boat" (LMAO id sink it myself if that was the case)

 

[dropzone]

I still don't get this! It was you guys on this forum that called me a 'soil specialist', not me.

So what is your expertise? You only became interesting here because of the "soil specialist" thing. Without it you are just another guy posting things about which he knows nothing. Not that being a "soil specialist" would be more useful, as they are more interested in growing conditions, but still....

The entire point of that report (well... where it started, before it digressed) was to point out that I didn't buy the view that the soil sround the site was 'loosely packed' or 'soft' because of the fact that there was a strip mine previously.

I've lived around former strip mines and know that the pile of overburden doesn't compress to the density of the local dirt for many, MANY years.

What I believe I've pointed out is that the photos of the site tell a different story, as does the later finding of the Surface Mining Reclamation and Control Act 1977, which outlines the strict requirements for the decommissioning of a strip mine.

It's loosely packed overburden. Why would you believe that?

Would any of you guys like to concede at least that there were a number of legal requirements that had been met in decommissioning the strip mine, and that it had not simply been left in a 'loosely packed' state.

Why the h*ll would any regulation demand more?

It WOULD actually help your cause somewhat, by explaining why the plane fragmented into such tiny pieces...

You (checking myself) seem to be unfamiliar with the properties of (checking the records) pretty much any materials, and have never thrown something against a wall. It hits a solid (and at high speeds loose till and water react, at first, as solids) and it begins to fragment as well as compress. The loose till starts to react more as a fluid and the aircraft compresses more while burying itself deep in the soil.

The documentary about a Spitfire that bored into a field in France and was compressed to a length of five feet does not account for how its engine took up much of that five feet. Airplanes are built light, which calls for a minimum of materials.

 

[Rewey]

I've lived around former strip mines and know that the pile of overburden doesn't compress to the density of the local dirt for many, MANY years.

So how do you know that? Are you a soil specialist now? Do you conduct borehole testing or compaction tests? Or are you just assuming? In your words, are you "just another guy posting things about which he knows nothing"?

That's OK... I still find you interesting...

Why the h*ll would any regulation demand more?

Because of the environmental impacts which mines can have when not decommissioned properly. There's a list of nearly 60 federal laws and regulations which relates specifically to strip mining. You can find the list of them here...

http://teeic.anl.gov/er/coal/legal/index.cfm

Rewey

 

[Rewey]

Your photo analysis is not only superficial but also grossly unprofessional and terribly flawed. You draw conclusions from a select few photographs that you have no business drawing such conclusions from...

Can you demonstrate where the the photo analysis of the soil is wrong? Perhaps that there is a high presence of iron oxides? I thought the further information and map showing location of ultisols confirmed that. Perhaps it's the colour I got wrong, which formed the basis of some of the conclusions?

There are, indeed, legal requirements for reclaiming land upon which mining has previously been carried out. However, I see nothing in the relevant legislation that leads me to conclude that the site at Shanksville could not have "loosely packed" soil.

I posted some above - I think it was post 179...

Please bear in mind that you cannot cherry pick a certain section from a lengthy piece of legislation and just assume that it means what you think it means, or assume that it applies to a particular location, event, etc.

Look... this bit is frustrating. I'm not going to post the entire legislation, because it's far too long. But if I post a part of it, I'm cherry picking. If you don't like the parts I'm posting, feel free to read the whole thing for yourself.

With regards to assuming it applies to a particular location, I would think that its clause on 'Scope' is pretty helpful with that:

These legislative requirements for decommissioning a strip mine IN PENNSYLVANIA can be found in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 30, Volume 3, Part 398 Pennsylvania.

"Section 938.1 SCOPE - This part contains all rules applicable only within Pennsylvania that have been adopted under the Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act of 1977".

Rewey

 

[Rewey]

FOR THE RECORD...
Please note that on Friday morning (Western Australian time) I'm flying out to the Philippines.

I'm only bringing that up because if I suddenly disappear for a few weeks, there'll no doubt be a big bunch of you cheering and giving each other high-fives at the thought that you've scared off another 'tin-foil hat wearer'... That's not the case...

Rewey

[And before anyone mentions (like in another forum) that there is internet connection in the Philippines - I spend my all holidays each year helping to build an orphanage in the highlands north of Davao on the island of Mindanao - trust me, there's no internet there... if anyone want to see some awesome photos of it, one of the guys we go with has some on his blog here: http://kidswithnohouse.blogspot.com/]

 

[GlennB]

Exactly that - that the official report into the structural failings of the Pentagon building failed to mention that the outer walls were built in such a way that gave them practically no structural rigidity (according to this passage an OS supporter told me).
Rewey

Wrong. The Pentagon outer walls were a reinforced concrete frame, infilled with brick. The RC give it huge 'structural rigidity'. Then, during upgrading, the brick was itself being replaced with RC and blast-proof glass, as I recall.

Please verify your facts.

While we're here - the requirement to compact and otherwise stablisise the spoil from mining operations is entirely project-specific. If the spoil is building up on a hillside it must be compacted and kept stable. Tree planting is common. If it is going onto flat land the requirements would be less onerous as there would be no danger of slippage. Safety is the issue.

 

[Rewey]

Please verify your facts.

Just going by what I was told by an 'official story' supporter. If you'd read the posts, I am clearly still waiting for him to verify this...

While we're here - the requirement to compact and otherwise stablisise the spoil from mining operations is entirely project-specific.

It's talking about reclamation after the decommissioning of the mine, not a temporary fix during the mining process...

Rewey

 

[GlennB]

Just going by what I was told by an 'official story' supporter. If you'd read the posts, I am clearly still waiting for him to verify this...
Rewey

Why don't you verify it yourself before speculating about how the wall might have performed? The information is public and easily found.

 

[beachnut]

Here's a trained professional as well:

But no-one arriving at the site immediately after the crash spoke of large fires burning off this surface fuel, which would have burnt with large black plumes of smoke, being kerosene based.

Rewey

Three different aircraft crashes with fires. So how many aircraft crashes have you investigated?

Where is your evidence, sources, facts?

 

[Rewey]

Where is your evidence, sources, facts?

OH MY GOD - do you people not read? I was using the witness quotes provided by Gravy...

What - are you saying they were wrong now?

 

[leftysergeant]

Okay, I will show you how compact the soil was at that location:

You can see that, as the soil is excavated around the engine, it tends to slump readily into the trench dug beside it. This sortof soil WILL res-seal the hole behind even a very large ballistic object rammed into it.

 

[tsig]

FOR THE RECORD...
Please note that on Friday morning (Western Australian time) I'm flying out to the Philippines.

I'm only bringing that up because if I suddenly disappear for a few weeks, there'll no doubt be a big bunch of you cheering and giving each other high-fives at the thought that you've scared off another 'tin-foil hat wearer'... That's not the case...

Rewey

[And before anyone mentions (like in another forum) that there is internet connection in the Philippines - I spend my all holidays each year helping to build an orphanage in the highlands north of Davao on the island of Mindanao - trust me, there's no internet there... if anyone want to see some awesome photos of it, one of the guys we go with has some on his blog here: http://kidswithnohouse.blogspot.com/]

Well that's one of the more imaginative excuses I have seen here.

Are you a "builder" in the same way you're a "soil specialist"?

 

[Rewey]

Okay, I will show you how compact the soil was at that location:

[qimg]http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/spanlib/th_engineextract.jpg[/qimg]

You can see that, as the soil is excavated around the engine, it tends to slump readily into the trench dug beside it. This sortof soil WILL res-seal the hole behind even a very large ballistic object rammed into it.

I don't know. I think if you look at the edge around the top of the hole, you can see sharp, defined edges, not the sort of really soft edges you get when you dig into soft sand. And people standing on obviously firm ground.

Happy to agree to disagree on this photo, though. You say tomato, I say tomato.

Would you agree that the colour of the soil (reddy-orange) is due to the iron oxides, and this is what makes some people think it's dirt, some people think it's rusted plane parts (and therefore staged)?

Feel good to agree on something before I go!

Rewey

 

[Rewey]

Are you a "builder" in the same way you're a "soil specialist"?

If you read the report, and all of my posts, you'd know I keep telling people I'm not a 'soil specialist', and yes, I do work for a building company.

Well that's one of the more imaginative excuses I have seen here.

Nah - all genuine there. You should try something like that at least once in your life. It's the most rewarding thing you'll ever do... Look at some of the kids in those photos - they've got nothing on Earth.

Fly out in 6 hours. Can't wait...

Rewey

 

[Rewey]

The information is public and easily found.

Really? Do you have it? Because I couldn't find a copy of it anywhere.

THAT'S WHY I ASKED THE GUY TO PROVIDE IT. Because it seemed to go against what the NIST report on the Pentagon performance stated. I just brought it up because of something leftysergeant mentioned...

Rewey