Soil Specialist from Down Under- Flight 93 Crashed in Shanksville? "Nonsense!"

[Rewey]

Another inconsistency with the ‘official story’ is the usual comparison to the Pan Am 103 crash. People should look up the huge crater left by the Pan Am crash. Here’s the kicker – that massive crater, which was over 150 foot long, and displaced 730yd³ of soil WAS CAUSED JUST BY THE WINGS HITTING THE GROUND at FREEFALL SPEED and the fuel inside them exploding. Yet an ENTIRE 757-200 crashed at around 900km/h, and only left a crater 50-odd foot wide and around 3 metres deep? Why the difference?

Also, according to the official report on Pan Am 103, this explosion ‘vapourised NEARBY houses AND their footings’. House footings are made of steel-reinforced concrete, or limestone blocks in older houses. The same jet fuel that ‘vapourised’ limestone or steel-reinforced concrete NEARBY, and burnt THREE steel-framed buildings until they collapsed at roughly free-fall speed, LEFT GRASS COMPLETELY UNBURNT INSIDE THE ACTUAL POINT OF EXPLOSION and around the alleged crash site.

If you want to ridicule me because I find those two events entirely inconsistent, go right ahead. Critically think your socks off.

Here’s a better challenge for you. Why don’t you actually take the time to read through the thread on ATS and see how the discussion has actually unfolded. You can find it here:

(can't post link - sorry, but it's not hard to find...)

One final point, to leftysergeant:

“You can tell that that was originally added to the meme by a twoofer, because they show the bottom of the aircraft where the top should be”.

My God, man. Are you really that obtuse? The entire point of that image is to show that the width of the wings is three times wider than the width of the crater. Do you REALLY think they cared whether the plane was shown upside-down or not? I’m starting to think that your critical thinking is limited only to pointing out blatantly obvious and insignificant ‘errors’ to avoid answering the actual question that’s being posed. You also seem to miss the fact that the plane in the image is shown vertical, not at 40º, but as that is more consistent with the crater left behind, and therefore supports your side of the argument, it’s probably best for you not to mention that, right? Awesome critical thinking skills… Awesome objectivity… Might I say the ‘OS movement in a nutshell’?

“The soil in this picture… would have to be more compact that 5-10 year old fill”.

Again, why is it OK for you to make ASSUMPTIONS based on what you see in photos, and apparently know nothing about, but when I do the same you call me a moron? Again, awesome critical thinking…

Rewey

 

[JimBenArm]

So what happened to Flight 93? Where is the plane? What did they dig up from there? Where did the people on the plane disappear? What would be the purpose of faking a plane crash?

If you don't have the answer to all of those questions, all this is stupid speculation. Special emphasis on the stupid. So, please provide the answers to these questions, or admit the "discrepancies" you raise are idiotic in the extreme.

Thank you very little.

 

[Rewey]

If you don't have the answer to all of those questions, all this is stupid speculation. Special emphasis on the stupid. So, please provide the answers to these questions, or admit the "discrepancies" you raise are idiotic in the extreme.

You guys are just the same - I don't get why you can't see that. If I had the answers to all of those questions, there would be no discrepancy or split opinions as to what really happened. But if YOU guys had all the answers to those questions, there would be no difference of opinion either. That's the entire point. Like it or not, I am entitled to an opinion, and MY opinion is that there are a few things about the 'official story' that don't seem to add up. If you think I'm stupid for having that opinion, please feel free to provide the actual evidence to help me adjust my opinion...

So what happened to Flight 93? Where is the plane? What did they dig up from there? Where did the people on the plane disappear? What would be the purpose of faking a plane crash?

Please note very carefully - I'm NOT SAYING that F93 didn't end up in that field somewhere, somehow. What I AM saying, is that I don't believe, for a number of reasons, that the 'official version' of events is accurate. Again, if I knew exactly how, I'd tell you. But I don't (and neither do you), so I'm asking questions...

Rewey

 

[A W Smith]

You guys are just the same - I don't get why you can't see that. If I had the answers to all of those questions, there would be no discrepancy or split opinions as to what really happened. But if YOU guys had all the answers to those questions, there would be no difference of opinion either. That's the entire point. Like it or not, I am entitled to an opinion, and MY opinion is that there are a few things about the 'official story' that don't seem to add up. If you think I'm stupid for having that opinion, please feel free to provide the actual evidence to help me adjust my opinion...



Please note very carefully - I'm NOT SAYING that F93 didn't end up in that field somewhere, somehow. What I AM saying, is that I don't believe, for a number of reasons, that the 'official version' of events is accurate. Again, if I knew exactly how, I'd tell you. But I don't (and neither do you), so I'm asking questions...

Rewey

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/flight93page1

Evidence Summary: 10 Points

​

1) The four hijackers purchased tickets under their own names and boarded the plane. One was randomly selected for and passed additional security screening. Ziad Jarrah was a licensed pilot and had recent training on professional large jet flight simulators. United flight 93 was scheduled to depart at 8:00 am, but left 42 minutes late due to airport traffic. Aboard were 33 passengers, 7 crew members, and 4 hijackers.

2) Several passengers and crew called from the plane, spoke with loved ones, described the hijackers' attack, and related their plan to try to retake the plane so that it would not be used as a suicide weapon against a populated area. All but two of these calls were made using the plane's seatback Airfones.

3) The cockpit voice recorder recorded the hijackers' attack and apparent murder of the pilots and a flight attendant. Air traffic controllers heard a radio transmission by a man with an Arabic accent, warning of a bomb on board. Passengers reported that one of the hijackers had what appeared to be a bomb strapped to him.

4) After learning about the other attacks, passengers and cabin crew attempted to retake the cockpit but were apparently unable to gain entry. The sound of their attempts was recorded on the CVR. The CVR also recorded the hijackers' decision to end the flight, followed by repeated shouts of "Allahu Akbar!" ("God is greatest.") until the plane crashed. Families of victims heard the CVR recording.

5) Flight 93 was tracked by radar until it went down.

6) Many people in Pennsylvania saw the Boeing 757, traveling at low altitude and high speed, roll to the right and plummet upside-down, nose first, towards the ground. Many people witnessed the subsequent enormous explosion and fireball. Val McClatchey photographed the mushroom cloud.

7) Hundreds of first responders (mostly volunteer firefighters) and crime scene investigators were quickly on the scene. They saw human remains, aircraft wreckage, personal effects, jet fuel, etc.
The cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder were recovered and had usable data, all of which is consistent with the other evidence.

8) The remains of every victim was positively identified. Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller personally collected many remains and made 12 identifications through fingerprints and dental records. Personal effects of most passengers and crew were recovered and returned to their families.

9) Hijacker identification documents and personal effects were recovered, along with the remains of four people identified as the hijackers through the process of elimination.

10) Nearly all of the aircraft was recovered by professional investigators and by civilians. The debris was returned to United Airlines after being examined for evidence of explosives use.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

I had de javu when I entered this thread. Quick quiz for you guys... what flight made this crater?

 

[Baylor]

Like it or not, I am entitled to an opinion, and MY opinion is that there are a few things about the 'official story' that don't seem to add up.

Welcome to 2005.

ETA: Actually, welcome to 1000 BCE. This faulty logic--which Homeland and Rewey think gives them the logical highground-- was discovered thousands of years ago. They still prefer ignorance over knowledge.

Please note very carefully - I'm NOT SAYING that F93 didn't end up in that field somewhere, somehow. What I AM saying, is that I don't believe, for a number of reasons, that the 'official version' of events is accurate. Again, if I knew exactly how, I'd tell you. But I don't (and neither do you), so I'm asking questions...

 

[Stellafane]

...so I'm asking questions...

Oh jeebus, jeebus, jeebus.

The polite thing for me to do is to welcome you to the forum, at least in a perfunctory way. But despite the fact that I'm usually a reasonably well-mannered person, in this case I'm not going to do that. Because doing so would be more than a little hypocritical. You see, I'm so sick of this -- people who haven't the slightest clue what they're talking about making nonsense claims, claims that anyone with a partially functioning brain should instantly realize can only be true if hundreds of people conspired to kill thousands of innocent civilians for some murky and insane purpose.

What do you get out of this? I'm serious, I really want to know: what do you get out of this? Does it make you feel special somehow, accusing people you don't know of murder based upon some nursery-school misunderstanding of the science involved? Does the attention of a few lonely, misguided paranoids justify making such a vicious attack, while simultaneously disgracing the memory of the victims? Bear in mind, if what you're claiming is true, Todd Beamer and the other passengers lied -- indeed, they themselves where apparently in on the conspiracy. What do you think the victims' families would think of that? Does that bother you at all?

"Asking questions." I can scarcely believe that after nearly eight years after the fact, there are people still trying to justify their malicious, libelous crap under that tired old canard.

 

[Stellafane]

...Like it or not, I am entitled to an opinion, and MY opinion is that there are a few things about the 'official story' that don't seem to add up. If you think I'm stupid for having that opinion, please feel free to provide the actual evidence to help me adjust my opinion...

Ah, I hear the distant "doink" of a xylaphone (inside joke).

Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But not all opinions are equally meritorious, or deserve equal amounts of respect. As I suspect you would agree (perhaps not in this case, but at least in principle), an opinion based on facts, logic, and reason deserves more respect than one based on ignorance and paranoia.

 

[Baylor]

Rewey--what do you think of this? Was this staged? Do you think you and the mighty truthers are about to uncover the secret plot? Are you and the heroic truthers about to put the perps to justice and have them contemplate the errors of their ways while you ride off into the sunset?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4904600.stm

 

[BigBird]

Evidence Summary: 10 Points

I had not seen that yet... Excellent post. Thanks!

 

[JimBenArm]

Oh, yes, just asking questions. Spectacularly stupid questions.

Sorry, unless there is some reason for them to have faked this, it's asinine!

 

[Rewey]

Oh, yes, just asking questions. Spectacularly stupid questions.

Sorry, unless there is some reason for them to have faked this, it's asinine!

I've NEVER said faked. I just don't buy the official version.

OK then - how about 'prior knowledge'? Assuming that everything unravelled just as you say it did, would you accept that the Government had prior knowledge (and therefore implying complicity), but just let it happen?

Hate to point this out to you, but have a look at how long the 'truth' about the US involvement in other wars has taken to come out? Before it's FINALLY admitted as truth. Decades.

The truth about the warnings before the sinking of the Lusitania, whilst the US claimed they had no knowledge about German uboats. No-one could believe that the US would send a passenger ship deliberately into uboat infested waters, but it's now known that they did. The truth about the knowledge of the impending Pearl Harbour attack, and the response of the US government to just let it happen, which we now know that they did. The truth about the USS Liberty attack by Israel. The truth about US operations in Loas and Cambodia during Vietnam, which is now admitted to. The truth about the US involvement with Afghanistan against the Soviets, which is now widely known. The truth about the US involvement with weapons during the Iran contra scandal, which is now admited to.

Seriously... has there EVER been a war that the US has EVER been just dragged into without any prior involvement, or prior knowledge that they were about to be attacked and therefore have their involvement and declaration of war justified? Do you think the incursion into Iraq, even though it had NOTHING to do with 9/11, would have been approved, had 9/11 not happened? If you honestly believe so, I find that naive.

A hundred years of this stuff going on, and you think there was not at LEAST prior knowledge (and therefore complicity) on this one? I find that a truly naive way of thinking. Do you really think the world believes that the 'greatest super power on Earth' was bamboozled by guys living in caves half a world away?

Rewey

[it's also noted that so far, no-one has bothered to demonstrate how my understanding of physics is wrong, as per the numerous comments that I "can't do physics"...]

 

[MarkyX]

Please note very carefully - I'm NOT SAYING that F93 didn't end up in that field somewhere, somehow. What I AM saying, is that I don't believe, for a number of reasons, that the 'official version' of events is accurate. Again, if I knew exactly how, I'd tell you. But I don't (and neither do you), so I'm asking questions...

Okay so basically you can't prove that Flight 93 didn't crash there, yet you still don't believe the "official story" for the sake of...not believing the official story.

I'm so used to performing mental masochist on myself. At least I don't have to listen to Linkin' Park.

 

[BigAl]

I've NEVER said faked. I just don't buy the official version.

Here is just some of the evidence for the basic story for Flight 93. You should familiarize yourself with and be prepared to explain how all of it is fabricated.

Some Flight 93 Evidence Updated 5/27/09
http://911links.webs.com/Flight93.htm

[1] DNA for all passangers crew found and identified
[2] The hole
[3] 95% of the airplane recovered in the hole
[4] Black boxes recovered and analyzed
[5] Video of Phanton hitting wall
[6] Lots of Flight 93 links
[[7]
[8] Analysis of Flt 93 Balck Boxes
[9] 1,200 investigators and first responders,.
[10] Remains of aircraft in storage.
[11] Papers & light objects found up to 8 miles from the crash
[12] Pictures
[13] Largest peice of Flt 93 was half a ton
[14] Coroner Statement
[15] Flight Data Recorder data and WTC data for Flt 93
[16] THE NORAD RESPONSE TO 9/11 COmplete timing and FAA info
[17] VIDEO: Eyewitnesses to Flt93 crash
[18] Phone calls from Flight 93
[19] Flight 93 Radar track
[20] Crash debris found 8 miles away
[21] Olsen Phone calls discussed
[1] --------------------------------------------------------------
DNA http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20011220shanksville1220p2.asp http://preview.tinyurl.com/2fhpe8 Links to forensics and hijacker identification http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/linksto911forensicsaqndvictimidentificat The hijacker's license http://bp0.blogger.com/_rLV-ZuNPwJ4/RzjIqhqANiI/AAAAAAAAAuw/8Ve-LbpabIs/s1600-h/PA00101A.jpg

[2] --------------------------------------------------------------
The Hole: The aircraft impacted at approximately 563 mph (906 km/h), at a 40 degree angle.[26] The impact left a crater about 115 feet (35 m) wide and 10 to 12 feet (about 3.5 m) deep. There were no survivors among the 44 passengers, crew and terrorists (all were killed by the impact or had been previously killed during flight). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93 http://preview.tinyurl.com/5tvkk
--- The National Park Service description of the hole:
"The crash and the subsequent investigation created
a depression approximately 85 feet by 85 feet with a
maximum depth of 27 feet ... the plane impacted the
relatively soft stripmine backfill, plowing to a depth of
30 ft, then collided with the remaining strip excavation
rock highwall, causing the plane to explode.”
http://www.nps.gov/flni/parkmgmt/upload/FINAL2--ChapterIII affected.pdf
[3] --------------------------------------------------------------
Here's the in the news on 9/24/2001, CNN reports 95% or the aircraft was recovered form that hole including both black boxes. http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/24/inv.pennsylvania.site.index.html CNN.com FBI finished with Pennsylvania crash site probe SHANKSVILLE, Pennsylvania (CNN) --The FBI announced Monday that its investigation of the site where a hijacked jet slammed into a field here is complete and that 95 percent of the plane was recovered. The federal investigation into the September 11 terrorist attacks continues. Evidence-gathering was halted Saturday afternoon and the pieces of United Airlines Flight 93 that had been recovered were turned over Sunday to the airline, with the exception of the flight data recorder and the voice recorder, which are being held and analyzed by the FBI, according to FBI agent Bill Crowley. Crowley said the biggest piece of the plane that was recovered was a 6-by-7-foot piece of the fuselage skin, including about four windows. The heaviest piece, Crowley said, was part of an engine fan, weighing about 1,000 pounds. Flight 93 was one of four jets hijacked Sept. 11. Authorities believe the flight, which originated in Newark, New Jersey, and had been destined for San Francisco, was headed for the nation's capital, where the hijackers may have intended to slam it into the White House or the Capitol. Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI Director Robert Mueller have praised the passengers of that flight, saying it appears their actions in trying to regain control of the aircraft averted a greater tragedy. People who spoke by phone with passengers after the plane was hijacked say that after the passengers found out about the earlier World Trade Center attack, they decided to try to overpower the hijackers. And officials familiar with the flight's cockpit voice recorder say it shows there was a "definite struggle," which they described as desperate and wild, between hijackers and some of the passengers. All 44 people on board the flight were killed when it slammed into the ground.
[4] --------------------------------------------------------------
Black boxes recovered and analyzed http://www.ntsb.gov/info/autopilot_AA77_UA93_study.pdf Black boxes recovered and analyzed http://www.ntsb.gov/info/autopilot_AA77_UA93_study.pdf Of the airliner parts, the pieces that investigators judged most significant were the plane's cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder, both unearthed within 3 1/2 days of the crash. The voice recording that remained is being analyzed for clues to confirm the identities of the four hijackers who seized the Newark-to-San Francisco flight before it crashed. http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010925scene0925p2.asp
[5] --------------------------------------------------------------
Video of Phanton hitting wall http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--_RGM4Abv8
[6] --------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of Flight 93 links
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/flight93shanksvillesummaryofevidence,man
[7] --------------------------------------------------------------
[8] --------------------------------------------------------------
Black boxes recovered and analyzed http://www.ntsb.gov/info/autopilot_AA77_UA93_study.pdf Discussed : http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102924
[9] --------------------------------------------------------------
1,200 investigators and first responders,. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/flight93shanksvillesummaryofevidence,man
[10] --------------------------------------------------------------
Remains of aircraft in storage. Since it had no more use for it, the FBI turned the airliner debris -- but not the data and voice recorders -- over to United Airlines yesterday. Asked what United will do with the debris, airline spokeswoman Whitney Staley said, "I don't think a decision has been made ... but we're not commenting." http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010925scene0925p2.asp "With the recovery Friday night of the cockpit voice recorder from United Flight 93, workers at the crash site have shifted their focus to a long, arduous search for what remains of the jet and its victims. http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010916otherjetnat5p5.asp
[11] --------------------------------------------------------------
Debris from the crash has been found up to 8 miles from the crash site, but searchers are concentrating on the crater where most of the remains are located. Papers and other light objects were carried aloft by the explosion after impact of the plane and they were transported by a nine-knot wind. http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010916otherjetnat5p5.asp
[12] --------------------------------------------------------------
Pictures http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/P200061.html http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/P200062.html Live news coverage showing debris http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeWi0JpI__M The hijacker's license http://bp0.blogger.com/_rLV-ZuNPwJ4/RzjIqhqANiI/AAAAAAAAAuw/8Ve-LbpabIs/s1600-h/PA00101A.jpg
[13] --------------------------------------------------------------
FBI spokesman Bill Crowley said that the largest piece
of plane recovered was a shred of fuselage skin that
covered four windows -- a piece seven feet long
from a jetliner that was 155 feet long. The
heaviest piece, he said, was a half-ton section
of engine fan.

http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010925scene0925p2.asp
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...node=&contentId=A56110-2002May8&notFound=true
[14] --------------------------------------------------------------
Once he was able to absorb the scene, Miller says, "I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there. It became like a giant funeral service." As a funeral director, Miller says, he is honored and humbled to preside over what has become essentially an immense cemetery stretching far into the scenic wooded mountain ridge. He considers it the final resting place of 40 national heroes. He saw dust, not bodies.
[15] --------------------------------------------------------------
Flight Data Recorder data and WTC data for Flt 93 http://www.ntsb.gov/info/foia_fri.htm
[16] --------------------------------------------------------------
THE NORAD RESPONSE TO 9/11 Compiled by Andrew Burfield http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2164577#post2164577
[17] --------------------------------------------------------------
VIDEO: Eyewitnesses to Flt93 crash (0:1:15) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxsmhnZeM6w
[18] --------------------------------------------------------------
Phone calls from Flight 93 9/11 Commission folder entitled "Flight 93 Calls - General". http://911myths.com/index.php/Image:Team7_Box12_93Calls_General.2.pdf
[19] --------------------------------------------------------------
Flight 93 Radar track http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/93RadarTrack.jpg
[20] --------------------------------------------------------------
Crash debris found 8 miles away
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_12967.html
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_47536.html
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_12942.html
[21] --------------------------------------------------------------
Olsen Phone calls discussed
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4687535#post4687535

 

[Rewey]

1) The four hijackers purchased tickets under their own names and boarded the plane.

None of whom appeared on the passenger manifests.

3) ...by a man with an Arabic accent, warning of a bomb on board. Passengers reported that one of the hijackers had what appeared to be a bomb strapped to him.

So there is a chance that there WAS a bomb on board? There is a chance then that this was used moments before it hit the ground? This might explain a different style of debris field...

4) ...passengers and cabin crew attempted to retake the cockpit but were apparently unable to gain entry. The CVR also recorded the hijackers' decision to end the flight, followed by repeated shouts of "Allahu Akbar!" ("God is greatest.") until the plane crashed.

They were unable to get into the cockpit, yet the terrorists just crashed the plane instead of continuing to their original destination? Were they scared of the banging on the cockpit door? They clearly weren't afraid of dying, just loud shouting?

6) Val McClatchey photographed the mushroom cloud.

The same fireball that burnt no grass inside the actual point of explosion?

7) They saw human remains, aircraft wreckage, personal effects, jet fuel, etc.

OK - the jet fuel. This has been discussed before. (a) the EPA says that the soil at the site after clean up was 'within acceptable limits' for pollutants such as jetfuel (which is tiny - mere parts per million), (b) the soil that was used to fill the crater was the same soil that was excavated from the area, and (c) the only way to remove fuel contamination from soil is to replace it with cleanfill. Therefore, this would suggest to some that there was no spilt fuel in the area.

Just food for thought...

Rewey

 

[BigAl]

None of whom appeared on the passenger manifests.

Wrong. See several items in this summary.


The 19 Arab Islamist Hijackers Edited 6/22/09
http://911links.webs.com/19Hijackers.htm
Table of Contents
[1] Reading list for all the evidence we have about the hijackers.
[2] The martyrdom videos made by 7 of the hijackers.
[3] Arabic spoken in cockpits of hijacked planes.
[4] Boarding manifest for Flt11 that shows hijacker's names
[5] The names of the hijackers
[6] BBC on the names and reporting of the hijackers
[7]
[8] Status of Hijacker DNA - (2009)
[9] Answer to "At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still Alive"
[10] bin Laden Connections to the 19 hijackers
[11] News Report on hijackers as of Nov 2, 2001
[12] Hanjour as a pilot
[13] Photo and DNA ID match of some of the hijackers.
[14] Identification of the Flt 77 hijackers
[15] Pictures of the Hanjour and another hijacker boarding the airplanes.
[16] Details of airline tickets for some of the hijackers.
If you want to knowwhy each person is on the list, read any or all of these books to get an idea of just how much evidence for who hijacked the planes and how they are connected directly to bin Laden and KSM and the American Embassy bombings in Africa and the attack on the USS Cole. Some of these names were known to the FBI even before 9/11/2001 for their crimes.

[1] ----- Essential reading list ---------------------------

The Looming Tower: Al Qaeda and the Road to 9/11 by Lawrence
Perfect Soldiers: The 9/11 Hijackers: Who They Were, Why They Did It by Terry Mcdermott
The Shadow Factory: The Ultra-Secret NSA from 9/11 to the Eavesdropping on America, by James Bamford.
PBS Video on Bamford http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/spyfactory/program.html
Spying Blind by Amy Zegart
Perfect Soldiers by Terry McDermott

[2] -------Hijacker videos -------------------------------------------

This video has the martyrdom videos made by some of the hijackers.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1619489
Hijackers video wills (Scroll down to the bottom)
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Responsibility

[3] -------Arab Audio on Voice recorders --------------

We have the audio of Arabs on the recovered cockpit voice recorders.
The CVR clearly captured the words of the hijackers, including words in Arabic from the microphone in the pilot headset up to the end of the flight. The hijackers' statements, the clarity of the recording, the position of the microphone in the pilot headset, and the corresponding manipulations of flight controls provide the evidence. The quotes are taken from our listening to the CVR, aided by an Arabic speaker.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/9/11_Commission_Report/Notes/Part_1

[4] -----------Boarding Manifests ---------------------------

I have the boarding manifest for Flt11 that shows the names. http://www.911myths.com/images/8/84/Flight_11_Manifest.gif http://www.911myths.com/images/8/84/Flight_11_Manifest.gif Discussion http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124907 Flash app shows seating, calls , hijackers,
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/flights/P200018.html

[5] -----Hijacker names ------------------------------

AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77
1) Khalid Almihdhar - Possible Saudi national
-Possible resident of San Diego, California, and New York -Alias: Sannan Al-Makki; Khalid Bin Muhammad; 'Addallah Al-Mihdhar; Khalid Mohammad Al-Saqaf 2) Majed Moqed - Possible Saudi national
-Alias: Majed M.GH Moqed; Majed Moqed, Majed Mashaan Moqed 3) Nawaf Alhazmi - Possible Saudi national
-Possible resident of Fort Lee, New Jersey; Wayne, New Jersey; San Diego, California -Alias: Nawaf Al-Hazmi; Nawaf Al Hazmi; Nawaf M.S. Al Hazmi 4) Salem Alhazmi - Possible Saudi national
-Possible resident of Fort Lee, New Jersey; Wayne, New Jersey 5) Hani Hanjour -
-Possible resident of Phoenix, Arizona, and San Diego, California -Alias: Hani Saleh Hanjour; Hani Saleh; Hani Hanjour, Hani Saleh H. Hanjour AMERICAN AIRLINES #11 BOEING 767
1) Satam M.A. Al Suqami- Possible Saudi national
-Dates of birth used: June 28, 1976; Last known address: United Arab Emirates
2) Waleed M. Alshehri - Possible Saudi national
-Dates of birth used: September 13, 1974; January 1, 1976; March 3, 1976; July 8, 1977; December 20, 1978; May 11, 1979; November 5, 1979 -Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Orlando, Florida; Daytona Beach, Florida -Believed to be a pilot
3) Wail M. Alshehri
-Date of birth used: September 1, 1968 -Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Newton, Massachusetts -Believed to be a pilot
4) Mohamed Atta - Possible Egyptian national
-Date of birth used: September 1, 1968 -Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Coral Springs, Florida; Hamburg, Germany -Believed to be a pilot -Alias: Mehan Atta; Mohammad El Amir; Muhammad Atta; Mohamed El Sayed; Mohamed Elsayed; Muhammad Muhammad Al Amir Awag Al Sayyid Atta; Muhammad Muhammad Al-Amir Awad Al Sayad
5) Abdulaziz Alomari - Possible Saudi national
-Dates of birth used: December 24, 1972 and May 28, 1979 -Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida -Believed to be a pilot
UNITED AIRLINES #175 BOEING 767
1) Marwan Al-Shehhi
-Date of birth used: May 9, 1978 -Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida -Believed to be a pilot -Alias: Marwan Yusif Muhammad Rashid Al-Shehi; Marwan Yusif Muhammad Rashid Lakrab Al-Shihhi; Abu Abdullah
2) Fayez Rashid Ahmed Hassan Al Qadi Banihammad
-Possible residence(s): Delray Beach, Florida -Alias: Fayez Ahmad; Banihammad Fayez Abu Dhabi Banihammad; Fayez Rashid Ahmed; Banihammad Fayez; Rasid Ahmed Hassen Alqadi; Abu Dhabi Banihammad ; Ahmed Fayez; Faez Ahmed 3) Ahmed Alghamdi
-Alias: Ahmed Salah Alghamdi
4) Hamza Alghamdi
-Possible residence(s): Delray Beach, Florida -Alias: Hamza Al-Ghamdi; Hamza Ghamdi; Hamzah Alghamdi; Hamza Alghamdi Saleh
5) Mohand Alshehri
-Possible residence(s): Delray Beach, Florida -Alias: Mohammed Alshehhi; Mohamd Alshehri; Mohald Alshehri
UNITED AIRLINES #93 BOEING 757
1) Saeed Alghamdi
-Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida -Alias: Abdul Rahman Saed Alghamdi; Ali S Alghamdi; Al- Gamdi; Saad M.S. Al Ghamdi; Sadda Al Ghamdi; Saheed Al-Ghamdi; Seed Al Ghamdi
2) Ahmed Ibrahim A. Al Haznawi - Possible Saudi national
-Date of birth used: October 11, 1980 -Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida -Alias: Ahmed Alhaznawi
3) Ahmed Alnami
-Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida -Alias: Ali Ahmed Alnami; Ahmed A. Al-Nami; Ahmed Al- Nawi
4) Ziad Samir Jarrah
-Believed to be a pilot -Alias: Zaid Jarrahi; Zaid Samr Jarrah; Ziad S. Jarrah; Ziad Jarrah Jarrat, Ziad Samir Jarrahi

[6] -----------------------------------------

BBC on the names and reporting of the hijackers http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy_theory_1.html
[7] ----------------------------------

[8] ------------------------------------------------

Newsweek - Remains of the Day Nineteen hijackers died on 9/11. What should be done with what's left of them? Eve Conant From the magazine issue dated Jan 12, 2009 ...Through a combination of innovative DNA-mapping techniques, help from the FBI's crime lab and dumb luck, the scientists have now ID'd four of the 10 New York hijackers. The remains of the nine hijackers from the Pentagon and Pennsylvania crash sites have also been confirmed; six other hijackers have yet to be identified. ... http://www.newsweek.com/id/177724/output/print
[9] -----------------------------------------------

At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still Alive http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hijackers.html BBC Response http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy_theory_1.html
[10] ----------------------------------------------------


bib Laden Connections to the 19 hijackers

[11] -------------------------------------------------------

News report as of Nov 2, 2001 http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/11/02/attack/main316806.shtml

[12] --------------------------------------------

New York Newsday article from 9/23/01. "Despite Hanjour's poor reviews, he did have some ability as a pilot, said Bernard of Freeway Airport. "There's no doubt in my mind that once that [hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it," he said." Most of the complaints that I've seen were that he couldn't land well. Considering what he was planning on doing, I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't exactly the top of his "skills to hone" list. http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/disinfo/deceptions/nynewsday_sep23.html Woman taught 9/11 hijacker how to fly http://www.capeargus.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=55&fArticleId=3171841

[13] -------------------------

Photo and DNA ID match of some of the pilots. This 9/11 Commission document explains how the FBI attempted to verify the hijackers identities (includes an apparent DNA match with Jarrah). http://www.scribd.com/doc/13950034/...BI-ID-of-Hijackers-by-Family-Members-PENTTBOM http://911myths.com/index.php/Image:Team5_Box62_AliasesAndIDs-FBIIDsHijackers-1.pdf

[14] ---- Identification of the Flt 77 hijackers ---------

This 9/11 Commission document includes details of a forensic examination of hijacker ID cards recovered from the Pentagon, and a list of identification documents belonging to the hijackers (passports, visas, driving licences, more). http://911myths.com/images/b/ba/Team5_Box46_Chronology_US_Identifications.pdf

[15] --------------------------------

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x34702

[16] ---------------------------------

Details in hijacker tickets. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4722224#post4722224

 

[A W Smith]

I've NEVER said faked. I just don't buy the official version.

the first responders, witnesses, victims family members who received phone calls from the plane are all lying then? The volunteers who collected debris, papers, personal effects were fooled by a faked crash scene?

OK then - how about 'prior knowledge'? Assuming that everything unravelled just as you say it did, would you accept that the Government had prior knowledge (and therefore implying complicity), but just let it happen?

Hate to point this out to you, but have a look at how long the 'truth' about the US involvement in other wars has taken to come out? Before it's FINALLY admitted as truth. Decades.

The truth about the warnings before the sinking of the Lusitania, whilst the US claimed they had no knowledge about German uboats. No-one could believe that the US would send a passenger ship deliberately into uboat infested waters, but it's now known that they did. The truth about the knowledge of the impending Pearl Harbour attack, and the response of the US government to just let it happen, which we now know that they did. The truth about the USS Liberty attack by Israel. The truth about US operations in Loas and Cambodia during Vietnam, which is now admitted to. The truth about the US involvement with Afghanistan against the Soviets, which is now widely known. The truth about the US involvement with weapons during the Iran contra scandal, which is now admited to.

Seriously... has there EVER been a war that the US has EVER been just dragged into without any prior involvement, or prior knowledge that they were about to be attacked and therefore have their involvement and declaration of war justified? Do you think the incursion into Iraq, even though it had NOTHING to do with 9/11, would have been approved, had 9/11 not happened? If you honestly believe so, I find that naive.

A hundred years of this stuff going on, and you think there was not at LEAST prior knowledge (and therefore complicity) on this one? I find that a truly naive way of thinking. Do you really think the world believes that the 'greatest super power on Earth' was bamboozled by guys living in caves half a world away?

We understands that you need to hate the US and attach a conspiracy to all it ever has done because of your feelings of inadequacy and powerlessness.

Rewey

[it's also noted that so far, no-one has bothered to demonstrate how my understanding of physics is wrong, as per the numerous comments that I "can't do physics"...]

Ill take one point to illustrate that don't know physics. Your ridiculous sand bag and projectile comparison. First the plane is not a small projectile. It is a huge aircraft composed of many parts. Try shooting your sand bag with an automatic weapon on full auto. This reminds me of the time when I was seven and saw a construction crew installing dewatering well points using nothing but water pressure. I repeated what I had observed in my parents back yard much to their dismay using nothing but a 10 foot length of steel pipe hooked up to a garden hose. sinking it repeatedsly to its full length using only light pressure and leaving 3/4 inch holes ten foot deep all over the back yard. Are you sure you're a soil scientist and not some simple minded dirt farmer?

 

[Rewey]

the first responders, witnesses, victims family members who received phone calls from the plane are all lying then? The volunteers who collected debris, papers, personal effects were fooled by a faked crash scene?

Did I just say that I NEVER SAID THE PLANE DIDN'T LAND THERE? Where do you get this from???

We understands that you need to hate the US and attach a conspiracy to all it ever has done because of your feelings of inadequacy and powerlessness.

OK - I'll take umbrage to that comment. Everything I mentioned in that list was FACT. It has nothing to do with hatred or conspiracy. Are you saying that you believe that I was wrong in all of those historical examples, even though the Government agrees with me?

Ill take one point to illustrate that don't know physics. Your ridiculous sand bag and projectile comparison. First the plane is not a small projectile. It is a huge aircraft composed of many parts.

Yeah... I said that (?)

Are you sure you're a soil scientist and not some simple minded dirt farmer?

My goodness... what is it with you and reading??? I never called myself a 'soil scientist' - you guys at this forum did. Why is that so hard for you?

Rewey

 

[Justin39640]

(snip)

Firstly, there’s something you guys need to accept. THERE IS NO OFFICIAL STORY with regards to Flight 93. NIST didn’t bother to make a report on this one. What does this mean? (snip)

the reason for that was
the NIST makes recommendations to improve future designs and improve existing ones

they dont investigate airplane crashes
since this plane crash was a crime the NTSB handed it off to the FBI
since there was no structures involved or egress plans (or lack of) to save lives
the NIST would have no business with flight 93

ETA: i think this shows that you may not fully grasp the reality of the situations youre typing about (not to mention disrespecting the dead, and apologizing for murderous terrorists)

Secondly, why do I think it’s ludicrous that tiny fragments of plane could bury themselves up to 50 feet deep in the sand?
(snip)

 

[Rewey]

Thanks for pointing out the hijackers name thing - I found another thread from your link regarding 'victim lists' as opposed to 'passenger lists'...

Rewey