So Will 2012 Be Just Another Year?

[UndercoverElephant]

They have not created it, it is a quite old prediction by Malthus; the resources are finite (or the acquiring of those resources has a limit) and at some point the consumers of those resources will outnumber the amount of consumers that can be sustained by the resources (or acquiring thereof).

It is nothing special even for humans; it happens in just about any ecological system all the time.

What is special is the scale. It's never happened on an industrialised or globalised scale before, let alone both at the same time.

Realisation is nothing if you can not (to paraphrase someone who could not use some substances in moderation) 'start with the man in the mirror'.

I'm 43 and chose to have no children because I believed this was coming. Anyone who has children can't point fingers at me.

Why? If I take a good look at China I see that their childbirth policies, harsh as they are, begin bearing fruit.

Yes, but China isn't a democracy. No similar policy is ever likely to be implemented by politicians who have to face re-election. And on top of that, China is in very serious trouble even after the 1CP. It would have been much worse without it, but China is already non-self-sufficient in food and coal/oil and that is going to mean trouble ahead for them.

The reason the rest of the world still has not done something like that is because people are too hooked on the 'freedom or bust' meme.

And a load of other memes.

But that does not mean that at some point they will have to concede that 'yeah... some points of that communist state, some points of those socialists, some points of those liberals, some points of those hedonists... they are actually making sense'.

I think we are already quite close to that point in Europe. US politics is another beast altogether. From a European perspective, all your mainstream politicians are either insanely right wing, or just plain insane.

I have yet to see someone with that claim to prove they are lies... can you prove it?

Not without writing a small book. Time will provide the proof. Not long to wait now.

No, it has not. In fact it has given them more access to knowledge, more time to practice skills, more wealth to acquire both than ever in history before.

And what happens? They buy Apple goodies so they can post video's of themselves getting a Darwin Award and commenting OMG, LOLZ.

They think that any foodstuff (like OMG 'pink slime') can gross them out and that nutrition means hanging out with your buddies at KFC.

Yes, they are detached from the world of real food.

I am not: http://www.wibberley.org/fungiforaging/roadkill.htm

Geoff

 

[realpaladin]

What is special is the scale. It's never happened on an industrialised or globalised scale before, let alone both at the same time.

Doesn't mean the threat is bigger.

It means the bangs are bigger, the death toll is bigger, but the overall threat is not bigger.

I'm 43 and chose to have no children because I believed this was coming. Anyone who has children can't point fingers at me.

I don't have children, but if I had, I would not be pointing my fingers anyway.

Yes, but China isn't a democracy. No similar policy is ever likely to be implemented by politicians who have to face re-election. And on top of that, China is in very serious trouble even after the 1CP. It would have been much worse without it, but China is already non-self-sufficient in food and coal/oil and that is going to mean trouble ahead for them.

There's always the Soylent-green escape...

I think we are already quite close to that point in Europe. US politics is another beast altogether. From a European perspective, all your mainstream politicians are either insanely right wing, or just plain insane.

I am from the Netherlands... we have our own insane clown posse at the helm at the moment...

Not without writing a small book. Time will provide the proof. Not long to wait now.

But not 2012...

Yes, they are detached from the world of real food.

I am not: http://www.wibberley.org/fungiforaging/roadkill.htm

Geoff

That is a sensible thing to do! I learned to butcher (not like an expert, but good enough for me) chicken and lamb while I lived in India, once you get used to the smell it isn't half bad... I found it all a bit unwieldy and slippery at first.

But as with anything else, I think it is not too late to take them spoiled brats outside and learn something about the little clump of clay (cosmic scale) they are whatsapping on.

A few of my friends kids have already been 'taught' that way... if you want to play XBox at the end of the week, you have to do some gardening, prepare some meat for the barbecue or any other 'basic' chore.

 

[Johny2x4]

Not without writing a small book. Time will provide the proof. Not long to wait now.

So, basically what you are saying is that you got nothing but a bunch of assumption and have no way to prove them. And it took what, 7 pages for you to say so. Neat. I like how you describe economists and other people with actual credential by saying they´re in "cuckoo land" and you are not. Wow, you really have a high opinion of yourself, don´t you?

Saying that "time will provide proof" is being deliberately vague so one can has a chance of success. It´s why people consider Nostradamus a hack and it´s why most sane people should consider you a hack as well.

 

[UndercoverElephant]

So, basically what you are saying is that you got nothing but a bunch of assumption and have no way to prove them.

Nope, I'm telling you to watch the documentary linked to in the other thread, and make your own mind up. No assumptions, no requests to anyone to believe anything without evidence.

And it took what, 7 pages for you to say so. Neat. I like how you describe economists and other people with actual credential by saying they´re in "cuckoo land" and you are not. Wow, you really have a high opinion of yourself, don´t you?

Nope, I have a very low opinion of mainstream economists. Anyone who has a high opinion of them is a fool, given that these were the people who did not see the biggest economic crisis in history coming until it actually hit them.

Saying that "time will provide proof" is being deliberately vague so one can has a chance of success.

"Success"? Your use of language is very revealing. Instead of being interested in what I'm trying to tell you about what is going on in the world, all you are actually interested in is "succeeding in debunking UE." You've got your priorities messed up. You're more interested in winning petty ego battles than understanding the global economic and political situation. Again, standard behaviour at the JREF.

 

[Johny2x4]

Nope, I'm telling you to watch the documentary linked to in the other thread, and make your own mind up. No assumptions, no requests to anyone to believe anything without evidence.



Nope, I have a very low opinion of mainstream economists. Anyone who has a high opinion of them is a fool, given that these were the people who did not see the biggest economic crisis in history coming until it actually hit them.



"Success"? Your use of language is very revealing. Instead of being interested in what I'm trying to tell you about what is going on in the world, all you are actually interested in is "succeeding in debunking UE." You've got your priorities messed up. You're more interested in winning petty ego battles than understanding the global economic and political situation. Again, standard behaviour at the JREF.

It´s bulls/it. The first 10 minutes re all I need. That and the people who worked on it, are questionable at best.

Of course you do. Anyone has a low opinion of people who are probably more educated and more aware of the system. It is after all some sort of jealousy and mixture of arrogance that drives that.

Oh and get of that cross will you? A martyr complex is not going to help your cause (not that it needs more holes in the already shot up bathtub).

 

[dafydd]

Nope, I'm telling you to watch the documentary linked to in the other thread, and make your own mind up. No assumptions, no requests to anyone to believe anything without evidence.



Nope, I have a very low opinion of mainstream economists. Anyone who has a high opinion of them is a fool, given that these were the people who did not see the biggest economic crisis in history coming until it actually hit them.



"Success"? Your use of language is very revealing. Instead of being interested in what I'm trying to tell you about what is going on in the world, all you are actually interested in is "succeeding in debunking UE." You've got your priorities messed up. You're more interested in winning petty ego battles than understanding the global economic and political situation. Again, standard behaviour at the JREF.

What makes you think that you are the only one here who understands the global economic and political situation? Bellman tactics do not work here, evidence is the thing.

 

[Johny2x4]

What makes you think that you are the only one here who understands the global economic and political situation? Bellman tactics do not work here, evidence is the thing.

Seems to be like a case of the Dunning-Kruger" effect to me.

 

[UndercoverElephant]

It´s bulls/it. The first 10 minutes re all I need.

And so we arrive at the truth. You were provided with evidence and you ignored it on the grounds that after watching 10 minutes, you knew it was ********.

Another example of the normal level of intellectual activity for the JREF.

 

[Johny2x4]

And so we arrive at the truth. You were provided with evidence and you ignored it on the grounds that after watching 10 minutes, you knew it was ********.

Another example of the normal level of intellectual activity for the JREF.

Aww I feel your butpains. You should tend to that.

 

[UndercoverElephant]

What makes you think that you are the only one here who understands the global economic and political situation?

Nothing, rather obviously. For a start I agree with pretty much everything said by Nafeez Ahmed in the documentary we're discussing in the other thread. Given that he's a world-class expert in international affairs and the head of a London-based economic/political think-tank, what on Earth make YOU think that I think I'm the only one who understands what is going on?

Please don't mistake your very poor level of understanding for me believing I'm exceptionally aware of what is going on. The problem is that you are very slow, not that I believe I'm exceptionally quick.

And as for the economists...I stand by what I said: these people did not see the biggest economic tsunami in history coming until it hit them. Their opinions are worthless, because what they do is driven by politics, not science or reason.

 

[dafydd]

Nothing, rather obviously. For a start I agree with pretty much everything said by Nafeez Ahmed in the documentary we're discussing in the other thread. Given that he's a world-class expert in international affairs and the head of a London-based economic/political think-tank, what on Earth make YOU think that I think I'm the only one who understands what is going on?

Please don't mistake your very poor level of understanding for me believing I'm exceptionally aware of what is going on. The problem is that you are very slow, not that I believe I'm exceptionally quick.

And as for the economists...I stand by what I said: these people did not see the biggest economic tsunami in history coming until it hit them. Their opinions are worthless, because what they do is driven by politics, not science or reason.

No chance that this Ahmed could be wrong?

 

[Limbo]

Given that he's a world-class expert in international affairs and the head of a London-based economic/political think-tank, what on Earth make YOU think that I think I'm the only one who understands what is going on?

Have you ever tried going to London to meet any members of the think-tank?

 

[UndercoverElephant]

Have you ever tried going to London to meet any members of the think-tank?

No,. Why would they be interested in meeting me? I doubt I've got much to tell them that they don't know already, given that I agreed with everything in Nafeez Ahmed's film.

And anyway...I don't go to London unless it is absolutely necessary. Can't stand the place. Too big. Too many people.

 

[UndercoverElephant]

No chance that this Ahmed could be wrong?

Nobody is absolutely right about everything. I'm open to suggestions about specific claims he makes in that film which somebody thinks is wrong. I rather suspect you haven't watched the film, so you aren't in much of a position to make a judgement either way.

 

[Limbo]

No,. Why would they be interested in meeting me? I doubt I've got much to tell them that they don't know already, given that I agreed with everything in Nafeez Ahmed's film.

And anyway...I don't go to London unless it is absolutely necessary. Can't stand the place. Too big. Too many people.

Oh I'm sure you are very interesting to meet.

But seriously, I would meet them and try to start a conversation about the documentary. Maybe learn an inside secret or two. Size up their office, their handshake. But that's me.

UE, can I ask you a question? Have you given up all hope in metaphysical phenomena?

 

[dafydd]

Nobody is absolutely right about everything. I'm open to suggestions about specific claims he makes in that film which somebody thinks is wrong. I rather suspect you haven't watched the film, so you aren't in much of a position to make a judgement either way.

I did watch the first fifteen minutes. I do not agree with his claims. You do. You dismiss all criticism with insults which have been removed by a mod, so what is the point?

 

[dafydd]

Have you given up all hope in metaphysical phenomenon?

No such thing. Woo is not going to save the world.

 

[UndercoverElephant]

I did watch the first fifteen minutes. I do not agree with his claims. You do. You dismiss all criticism with insults which have been removed by a mod, so what is the point?

How about you manage to provide ONE example of a claim he makes that you disagree with, and why? So far all you have done in this thread is wail and moan about how little evidence I've provided, when in fact I've provided plenty, whilst making all sorts of claims yourself which you make no effort whatsoever to back up.

There's a word for this.

 

[UndercoverElephant]

UE, can I ask you a question? Have you given up all hope in metaphysical phenomena?

I don't really understand the question. Do you mean "paranormal phenomena"? And what do you mean by "hope"? Hope that paranormal phenomena can save us?

I think at the end of the day we have free will, and that whilst I don't rule out the possibility of "assistance from outside" I think we have to assume that humanity is going to have to clean up its own mess.

 

[dafydd]

How about you manage to provide ONE example of a claim he makes that you disagree with, and why? So far all you have done in this thread is wail and moan about how little evidence I've provided, when in fact I've provided plenty, whilst making all sorts of claims yourself which you make no effort whatsoever to back up.

There's a word for this.

The doom mongers have always been with us, yet we are still here.