So, where did that 'empathy is a sin' drivel come from?

[acbytesla]

Anthropogenic climate change is the ultimate example.

Could destroy all mankind. But at least Exxon, Chevron and the Koch brothers did well.

Trump’s head of the DOE ending support for Green Energy and then basically handing 650 million dollars to a coal company. Trump is against, Wind, canceling licensing approval to Windfarms. He's stopping the building of charging stations while the rest of the world is embracing green energy in a huge way.

Seriously, he's dumber than a box of rocks. He has America is going all in on buggy whips and is killing what is left of the US auto industry.

 

[Susheel]

Actually goes back to Nietzsche. Ayn Rand never tired of denying she was influenced by Nietsche, but in reality she was.
And, btw, it;s wrong is equate all Libertarians with Ayn Rand, but clrar you don;t like anybody who is not on the political left.

Like it's wrong to equate all Republicans as MAGA morons? Despite the fact that an overwhelming majority of Republicans and libertarians continue to support the orange moron?
And as a person who works with those affected by unfettered capitalism, there is historically good reason for me to "not like" anybody who is not on the political left.

 

[ahhell]

The problem is that libertarianism is founded on the demonstrably false principle that when left to their own devices, people will tend to behave in ways that are good for society as a whole.

The problem with anti-libertarians is that they think that somehow, self-interest disappears when someone works for the government or a non-profit.

Anyrate, I think its fairly simplistic so say that either libertarian and especially not conservative particular worship Ayn Rand. I was just joking about that. MAGA could use a little more respect for Ayn Rand as they are all for all sorts of government intervention in the economy. Does anyone really think that Trump has read a word she wrote?

 

[acbytesla]

The problem with anti-libertarians is that they think that somehow, self-interest disappears when someone works for the government or a non-profit.

Anyrate, I think its fairly simplistic so say that either libertarian and especially not conservative particular worship Ayn Rand. I was just joking about that. MAGA could use a little more respect for Ayn Rand as they are all for all sorts of government intervention in the economy. Does anyone really think that Trump has read a word she wrote?

I really don't understand your point. Ayn Rand is definitely worshipped by many Libertarians and Republicans. Almost to the point of absurdity. And many of them are almost illiterate like Trump. They have seen movies of Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead. It's the selfishness ethos that they embrace.

 

[ponderingturtle]

It is true. In the Soviet Union they allowed small private plots, perhaps 3% of the arable land. These private plots were vastly more productive than the collectives. This was true for Vietnam, too. Once it abandoned collectives for private farms, it went from net rice importer to net rice exporter. Greed was good for both the private farmer and society.

And doctors need to be able to extort the most they can from patient who will die with out their interventions. Greed is good and take the suckers for all they are worth.

 

[ponderingturtle]

It leads to Martin Shkreli who bought up necessary drug patents and increased prices by as much as 80 times.

He should be a hero of all libertarians and capitalists for that genius act.

 

[ponderingturtle]

That doesn't prove it isn't true. We're communicating with computers because a lot of people wanted to make a lot of profit. Do you think Apple's motivation to introduce smart phones was about societal good or corporate profit? But, clearly, we've all benefited greatly.

Yet the internet and web would never have been developed in a libertarian setting as they were done by big government projects.

 

[ponderingturtle]

That still doesn't disprove that "individual ambition serves the public good." I mean . . . unlocking that individual ambition after the end of communism was a very good thing.

So what was the public good in Martin Shkreli's buying medicines that people need to live and jacking up the price? It was clearly individual ambition therefor it serves the public good.

Also that goes a long way to explain why so many people are fine with the blatant bribery that is now legal in the US, why shouldn't government workers have a little individual ambition?

 

[acbytesla]

And doctors need to be able to extort the most they can from patient who will die with out their interventions. Greed is good and take the suckers for all they are worth.

The list goes on and on where in fact that personal ambition does not serve the common good. Does it often? Yes. Does it often do the opposite? Also yes.

People who believe that it does have blinders on. Huge blinders. Unfettered capitalism leads to abuse. Those that oppose government regulations as a matter of principle are flat out stupid. There is a reason the Sherman Antitrust Act became law. It was Capitalists using their wealth to prevent competition. Sadly, the law is too often not enforced.

 

[arthwollipot]

I'm a little surprised to see a rational human being saying that Ayn Rand should be more respected. She was a horrible human being in every conceivable way.

 

[acbytesla]

I'm a little surprised to see a rational human being saying that Ayn Rand should be more respected. She was a horrible human being in every conceivable way.

I agreed with her on religion 100 percent. But everything else. I thought she was self centered bitch.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

You really treat it as if it is a religion.

They all do.
ETA: Seriously, 'every country should look out for their own', and that's why he voted for a leader who's whole shtick so far has been throwing Americans of all stripes under the bus? Boggles the mind.

 

[acbytesla]

They all do.
ETA: Seriously, 'every country should look out for their own', and that's why he voted for a leader who's whole shtick so far has been throwing Americans of all stripes under the bus? Boggles the mind.

Yep. As if selfishness will save them.

 

[catsmate]

Actually goes back to Nietzsche. Ayn Rand never tired of denying she was influenced by Nietsche, but in reality she was.
And, btw, it;s wrong is equate all Libertarians with Ayn Rand,

Because objectivism is essentially libertarianism with weird hangups.

but clrar you don;t like anybody who is not on the political left.

And it's clear you don't like "leftists"

 

[Darat]

So what was the public good in Martin Shkreli's buying medicines that people need to live and jacking up the price? It was clearly individual ambition therefor it serves the public good.

Also that goes a long way to explain why so many people are fine with the blatant bribery that is now legal in the US, why shouldn't government workers have a little individual ambition?

And should be against Trump getting drug prices down by 1400%, interference in the free market!

 

[Darat]

I agreed with her on religion 100 percent. But everything else. I thought she was self centered bitch.

And didn't she partake of the "immoral" welfare state?

 

[p0lka]

This is one of those times I wish this forum still had a large crop of fundies and loons. Would genuinely be interesting to hear someone argue the 'empathy is a sin' perspective. Even though it'd probably be bad-faith arguments and thinly veiled excuses. It just seems so transparently insincere to me (as you say, just an excuse to not care about the victims of GOP cruelties), it'd be interesting to hear from someone who actually believed it.

Ok, empathy means that you are wasting energy for other people in a zero sum game that would be better used for one's own self.

 

[p0lka]

I've said before - mental health professionals have a word they apply to a person without empathy. That word is "psychopath".

Really? I thought it was sociopath, as there's a lot of them in society and there's no empathy at all from them.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

I didn't know that. She was articulate. And she wasn't stupid. She was very clear that she thought religion was ridiculous.

But almost everything she wrote made a hero out of being self centered. Maybe I shouldn't say that. I only read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged plus a few other writings. She wrote a lot more. But those two books were by far her most popular. They are also both symbolic of her philosophy of selfishness. .

On the contrary I found her to be extremely stupid, despite her large vocabulary. Her best book by far was a 100% steal of Zamyatin's We. And her books went steadily downhill after that.

She was simply a female version of Alexander Boris dr Pfeffel, all sizzle no steak, all glitter no gold.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

And yet she is idolized by the right. I have heard dozens of leading Republican politicians praise her to an extreme.

Still doesn't make her any good or intelligent. The right is littered with idols who were no good idiots with a good speaking voice.