So, what is Intelligent Design?

[metropolis_part_one]

We have a soul.

We have a soul.


We have a soul.


We have a soul.


We have a soul.


We have a soul.


Did you know that in heaven God is portrayed as the Sun?


We have a soul.


My toolbox is "my soul."

 

[Upchurch]

Did you know that in heaven God is portrayed as the Sun?

Did you know that on Teletubbies a baby's face is portayed as the Sun?





**shudder**
freaky-@$$ baby face

edited to add: How exactly did you come by this information anyway?

 

[CWL]

Did you know that on Teletubbies a baby's face is portayed as the Sun?

Did you know that my hovercraft is full of eels?

 

[Upchurch]

Did you know that my hovercraft is full of eels?

Really? So are my pants!


No, I didn't just say that.

 

[tamiO]

We have a soul.


Did you know that in heaven God is portrayed as the Sun?


We have a soul.


My toolbox is "my soul."

Okay. So we have a soul.
Now what do we do?
Does this knowledge help you in any way?
Will it help me?
How will this knowledge change me?
How has it changed you?

 

[CWL]

Really? So are my pants!

Another line of questioning I won't be pursuing.

 

[Andonyx]

I gotta hand it to Russ Dill, I think two months of solid patient logical argument finally caused Lachuus to snap.

It was strange and anti-climactic really, rather like a tape recorder running out of batteries...

What am I reminded of?

...oh yes...

"Daisy...daisy,
give meee yoouuur hoonour truuuueee..."

Also props out to Upchurch, Diogenes, CWL, and Suezoled.


Seriously, what the hell was that?

 

[Tricky]

What am I reminded of?

...oh yes...

"Daisy...daisy,
give meee yoouuur hoonour truuuueee..."

[pedantism]Actually, it was "give me your answer true". Also the image doesn't work when you remember that HAL was once very smart.[/pedantism]

 

[Andonyx]

[pedantism]Actually, it was "give me your answer true". Also the image doesn't work when you remember that HAL was once very smart.[/pedantism]

Yeah I guess my version of the song is slightly more suggestive.

Woops.

 

[RussDill]

eh, he hasn't really snapped, he really thinks his response of "We have a soul" (seven times) is insightful. He has been this way the whole time.

 

[Upchurch]

Also the image doesn't work when you remember that HAL was once very smart.

Tricky, are you suggesting Hal isn't so smart now?

 

[Iacchus]

Merely repeating it ad nauseam won't make it so.

I take it that you are not willing to explain yourself any further. Alrightie, for my conclusion about your theories I kindly refer to my second sig line.

Thank you and good night.

How can you possibly know anything if you can't see it for yourself? What might that possibly suggest? ... except that the acknowledgment of "truth" is inborn. Therefore you can prove just about anything want in the "external sense," and yet its acknowlegment remains "internal." So, if you want to understand what your soul is, look inside yourself. It's the very thing which reasons things out and draws "its" conclusions -- your identity in other words.

 

[Iacchus]

Okay. So we have a soul.

Which is our identity or, point of reference ... the only point of reference any of us has really.

Now what do we do?

Realize that we are capable of understanding the truth, irregardless of what others might have us to believe.

Does this knowledge help you in any way?

Yes, it helps to keep me from being overly-influenced by others.

Will it help me?

Depends on whether you want to be your own person or not -- or, just follow the crowd.

How will this knowledge change me?

It might make you more selective -- and hence "discerning" -- in your dealings with other people.

How has it changed you?

Allowed me to live my own life and know myself for who I am, rather than what others might have me believe.

 

[RussDill]

Which is our identity or, point of reference ... the only point of reference any of us has really.

Hmm...I certainly have an identity without mentioning some eternal being.

Realize that we are capable of understanding the truth, irregardless of what others might have us to believe.

Well, I already knew that.

Yes, it helps to keep me from being overly-influenced by others.

And I am already perfectly capable of doing that.

Depends on whether you want to be your own person or not -- or, just follow the crowd.

I can already be my own person, besides, the crowd says we have a soul...so saying I have one wouldn't exactly be standing out from the herd.

It might make you more selective -- and hence "discerning" -- in your dealings with other people.

I like to view my self as pretty open in my dealings with other people. I think you need to define selective better...but so far, I don't really want this change, I'd rather be perfectly accepting of women in engineering roles.

Allowed me to live my own life and know myself for who I am, rather than what others might have me believe.

So, you were somehow unable to live your own life? I hate to tell you, but there are plenty out here that don't believe in a soul who do live their own life, and know themselves for who they are.

 

[Iacchus]

Hmm...I certainly have an identity without mentioning some eternal being.

Are you referring to my soul here?

Well, I already knew that.

And what tells you this? Is it a personal understanding or, something which can only be garnered through "external means?" In other words how do you know what you know?

And I am already perfectly capable of doing that.

Oh, because you understand that you have a "separate" identity?

I can already be my own person, besides, the crowd says we have a soul...so saying I have one wouldn't exactly be standing out from the herd.

And yet the crowd (the one I'm referring to) which subscribes to materialism does not.

I like to view my self as pretty open in my dealings with other people. I think you need to define selective better...but so far, I don't really want this change, I'd rather be perfectly accepting of women in engineering roles.

Are you suggesting I have a problem with women engineers? No, I don't have a problem with women engineers.

So, you were somehow unable to live your own life? I hate to tell you, but there are plenty out here that don't believe in a soul who do live their own life, and know themselves for who they are.

Whether you believe you have one or you don't believe you have one, doesn't change the fact that you have one. So, where do you expect "you" will be when your body dies? ... Obviously not alive and well in the material world, right? That's the part of you which is your soul.

 

[epepke]

Did you know that on Teletubbies a baby's face is portayed as the Sun?

Well, since everything in Teletubbies resembels The Prisoner, it should really be Leo McKern.

 

[BillyJoe]

Iacchus,

Some of us like to get external confirmation about the stuff that congeals out of all the stuff that has gained access to our brains, because there's no telling what sort of nut might have placed some of it there in the first place.

Iacchus, you are relying on your insides to tell you the truth but you do not realize that all that sh!t had to get in there somehow. So it's still something exterior to yourself (that part of the world at large that has had an input into your brain) that you're listening to and depending on to learn the truth. How can you trust your brain to subconsciously arrive at truth working only on the stuff that has by chance arrived in your brain.

BillyJoe

 

[Iacchus]

Iacchus,

Some of us like to get external confirmation about the stuff that congeals out of all the stuff that has gained access to our brains, because there's no telling what sort of nut might have placed some of it there in the first place.

Of course. You have to have some way of validating the experience. And yet the validation is an internal process, and remains internal.

Iacchus, you are relying on your insides to tell you the truth but you do not realize that all that sh!t had to get in there somehow. So it's still something exterior to yourself (that part of the world at large that has had an input into your brain) that you're listening to and depending on to learn the truth. How can you trust your brain to subconsciously arrive at truth working only on the stuff that has by chance arrived in your brain.

BillyJoe

Yes, and it may require a lot of sorting through initially, to get at that truth. But ultimately it's up to you decide.

 

[BillyJoe]

Of course. You have to have some way of validating the experience. And yet the validation is an internal process, and remains internal.

Yes, and it may require a lot of sorting through initially, to get at that truth. But ultimately it's up to you decide.

Well now, I could have sworn you said you arrived at your truth intuitively. Do you mean you critically examine everything logically and deductively......and THEN go with your gut feel?

 

[kuroyume0161]

This is too good a train of thought not to board.

But what reason would you have to conclude this, whether emotionally or not? What would lead you to conclude that an arrowhead was designed but that, say, a cube of salt or a crystal of quartz, was not designed?

I know what would lead me to conclude this. Extraneous evidence. Just a bunch of arrowheads sprinkled willy-nilly across a field, or a continent, wouldn't do it. There are other bits of evidence that have been discovered that lead one to the conclusion that arrowheads were designed.

- Other chunks of flint that match up seamlessly with arrowheads.
- Tools that show signs of being used to flake off bits of flint.
- Arrow shafts and the binding cord used to tie the heads to the shafts.
- Verbal records of how to make arrowheads.

And so on.

It's all this other stuff that we know about arrowheads that we don't know about salt or quartz that lead us to conclude that arrowheads are designed. Without this evidence, there would be no reason to believe that arrowheads were designed.

And this is exactly the kind of evidence we don't have about the universe. We don't have evidence of the raw materials, or the tools, or the passed-down instructions (we have stories, but not instructions) of how to make a universe.

Well, it's even worse than that. Boiling ID down, they really don't mean super-space-aliens, do they? They mean: "Supernatural being external to universe makes universe in a snap!" (stole that from National Enquirer).

In essence, EVERYTHING was ID'd - including clouds, rocks, hydrogen atoms, quarks, dark matter, EM radiation, G.W.Bush (what a mistake); EVERYTHING. So what is the comparison for an ID'd universe and a non ID'd universe? Last I checked, there isn't any comparable basis from which to make any determinations. For all intensive purposes, waxing philosophical, the universe is just as much designed as happened.

If someone says, well people are definitely designed, ask them about a rock or planet or something else. If there is only one Primal cause, then what designed rocks? Satan! I knew it!

Dembski and Behe are idiots... (yes, I've read their books).