So what form does the resistance take?

[stanfr]

God, you Berniebros will simply not let it go, will you?
Bernie is too far to the left to win in the general election. if anything, last Tuesday should underline that.

I would not consider myself a 'berniebro' although I did vote for him 2016 before the DNC allegedly screwed him. At the time, the polls all showed him with a much stronger lead over Trump. I know a lot of Gen Z voters, and Bernie speaks to their issues. He correctly has focused on health care and wages and the huge disparity of wealth, the things that any populist candidate from the left is gonna have to bring front and center. It's a little hard to say whether this is "too left" to win the general election. I thought it was in the last election because the right was able to label him as a 'socialist', which is a dirty word of course for many on the right and even center, But it depends on how it is presented I think. I have been pointing out over and over to people that Trump was elected this time by a more 20%--20 friggin percent!!--of the population (and yes I know they are not all eligible to vote) There are a lot of disenchanted votes to be grabbed. At any rate it's all moot cause I said up front, Bernie is too old. But I think he could help whomever does take up the cause of the progressive wing.

 

[BDBoop]

so? no surprise there. Harris handily won his home state. Now do you have any contribution to my thread or are you just here to troll?

I'm surprised you felt the need to ask, I thought it was very clear.

 

[BDBoop]

Considering your thread is asking what form of resistance should be taken I would suggest that not following the advice of the losing VP candidate that did not carry his home County. If his advice and leadership did not influence his fellow neighbors to vote for him, it seems questionable to employ that advice as a form of resistance to Conservatism.

Added: I did not mean to offend, just pointed out the absurdity.

Uh-huh.

 

[stanfr]

Last time he had control of both houses for the first two years, and it was not the end of the world.
Problem with Trump is makes a lot of contracitory statments and , well, justBS a lot.
A lot of what he proposed to do will not be popular with people who voted for him when they understand it will cut programs they like
and they will let the house rep know they don;t like it. That will slow down a lot of the budget proposols.
The whole problem with the GOP is they love to yell about huge cuts to government spending, but when it comes to actually making the cuts, they back off a lot.
And it is not like everybody who voted for Trump is MAGA. Many chose him as the lesser of two evils, and they are not that loyal to him. Never forget that.
I think his health is going to keep him from a 2028 run.
And he will feel his age. He might not want to run for that reason.

Absolutely...and I pointed out to all the Trumpists that all of his previous promises went nowhere, like building the wall and having Mexico pay. But they didn't care, they just don't want brown people to replace them and men to kick their daughter's butt in sports...
However, with no guard rails this time and a GOP that is completely tamed by Trump, things could be far uglier this time. I hope they are not.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

I would like to beleive you, but I am concerned if Trump decides to go all out and ignore the COnsttution, fhow many in the GOP would take the risks of opposing him?
WHo would stop him? Any system of controls is only as good as the people who enforce it. I am not confident and don't trust the GOP here.

It's your prerogative if you want to buy into that narrative, but I think that threat has and still is a massive hyperbole. The dictators we have precedents on (I'm looking at Putin, and Maduro as off the tongue examples) got in and set up massive rubber stamp majorities in their respective senate/parliament equivalents to both give a thin veneer of legitimacy to their amendments, as well as to establish the amendments themselves. They were able to implement electoral fraud rigging in their respective regions to plat their rubber stamp majorities.... and their methods of amending their respective constitutions are not 1:1 the same processes as in the US.

But that's besides the point... the bottom line is they rigged their setups and then disguised their constitutional breaches as democratic. They require a veneer of legitimacy... Trump doesn't have that sort of corrupted infrastructure to rig all of the house/senate seats, much less a prior electoral mandate of any kind to stand by and justify bypassing the constitution... moreover he's not going to have the votes to do it off the current election results... So I'm skeptical that he even has the ability to do it at this point.

We also have the fact that despite his moaning and groaning about the 2020 results - the closest thing to his opportunity to realize this whole dictatorial route - he still wound up ultimately stepping aside for Biden and Harris to take over. If he's supposed to be a dictator, the history says he's been pretty bad at that.

Although none of this is to suggest that his tenure can't be good or bad.

 

[stanfr]

So before this thread goes too far left--of--center (pun intended) is anyone willing to venture a suggestion to the original question I posed, which is (rephrased) How should the opposition be framed?
1) Go left, more socialist
2) reach out more to the moderates and conservatives
3) A broad coalition of progressive or reform groups, or just one main one with an umbrella of support below?
4) If one person has to take the lead as leader, who is the most likely or who is the best candidate?

My gut tells me it should be one strong populist candidate (like a Bruce Springsteen jumping into politics) who is willing to speak to the demand for universal health care, wealth equality, ending the police state etc...but I could be wrong. Thoughts??

 

[Thermal]

Re:OP: you're right about Sen Sanders being on the way out. What we desperately need is a new face for him to pass the torch to. Rep Ocasio-Cortez is a winning contender, but since my wife pointed out that Trump lost to a man but won TWICE against women, I'm afraid the people aren't ready yet and we'll rack up another loss, likely to a President freaking Vance.

Although it's a near shoe-in that we will flip from red to blue in four years. Trump is bound to do a lousy job of it, like he did last time, and people want change when things are bad. Things will be bad.

 

[stanfr]

Re:OP: you're right about Sen Sanders being on the way out. What we desperately need is a new face for him to pass the torch to. Rep Ocasio-Cortez is a winning contender, but since my wife pointed out that Trump lost to a man but won TWICE against women, I'm afraid the people aren't ready yet and we'll rack up another loss, likely to a President freaking Vance.

Although it's a near shoe-in that we will flip from red to blue in four years. Trump is bound to do a lousy job of it, like he did last time, and people want change when things are bad. Things will be bad.

Yes I think it's a bit of a horrible Catch22 the Dems are left with--if they allow Trump free reign to be Trump, to let things get so bad that there will be backlash, many people will be hurt badly. But if they do their best to mollify his actions, they could help him or MAGA secure power for a longer period of time.

 

[dudalb]

So before this thread goes too far left--of--center (pun intended) is anyone willing to venture a suggestion to the original question I posed, which is (rephrased) How should the opposition be framed?
1) Go left, more socialist
2) reach out more to the moderates and conservatives
3) A broad coalition of progressive or reform groups, or just one main one with an umbrella of support below?
4) If one person has to take the lead as leader, who is the most likely or who is the best candidate?

My gut tells me it should be one strong populist candidate (like a Bruce Springsteen jumping into politics) who is willing to speak to the demand for universal health care, wealth equality, ending the police state etc...but I could be wrong. Thoughts??

America is not in a mood to become a clone of a Europaen Social Democracy, however you Progs fool yoursleves about that.
I see deamn for universal health care, not so much for wealth equality..they want the rich to pay their fair share, but don't see nay widespread mod for confisciation of wealth and massive redistriubtion.
And what the hell does end the police state mean?
I think you are living in a bubble, frankly.

 

[dudalb]

Re:OP: you're right about Sen Sanders being on the way out. What we desperately need is a new face for him to pass the torch to. Rep Ocasio-Cortez is a winning contender, but since my wife pointed out that Trump lost to a man but won TWICE against women, I'm afraid the people aren't ready yet and we'll rack up another loss, likely to a President freaking Vance.

Although it's a near shoe-in that we will flip from red to blue in four years. Trump is bound to do a lousy job of it, like he did last time, and people want change when things are bad. Things will be bad.

AOC is way too far to the left anyway. She will not be a serous candidate.
Like it or not, the Dems need somebody who can win back the swing voters who swung for Trump this time.
People might want change, but how much change?
I think they want Universal Helath Care, for the wealthy to pay their fair share, and do not think they want a out and out anti captialist agenda.

 

[dudalb]

It's your prerogative if you want to buy into that narrative, but I think that threat has and still is a massive hyperbole. The dictators we have precedents on (I'm looking at Putin, and Maduro as off the tongue examples) got in and set up massive rubber stamp majorities in their respective senate/parliament equivalents to both give a thin veneer of legitimacy to their amendments, as well as to establish the amendments themselves. They were able to implement electoral fraud rigging in their respective regions to plat their rubber stamp majorities.... and their methods of amending their respective constitutions are not 1:1 the same processes as in the US.

But that's besides the point... the bottom line is they rigged their setups and then disguised their constitutional breaches as democratic. They require a veneer of legitimacy... Trump doesn't have that sort of corrupted infrastructure to rig all of the house/senate seats, much less a prior electoral mandate of any kind to stand by and justify bypassing the constitution... moreover he's not going to have the votes to do it off the current election results... So I'm skeptical that he even has the ability to do it at this point.

We also have the fact that despite his moaning and groaning about the 2020 results - the closest thing to his opportunity to realize this whole dictatorial route - he still wound up ultimately stepping aside for Biden and Harris to take over. If he's supposed to be a dictator, the history says he's been pretty bad at that.

Although none of this is to suggest that his tenure can't be good or bad.

Trump is not going to appoint the kind of classic GOP people to postions like he did last tim and who acted as a break on his bad impusles. He will surrond himself with yes men and sycophants, there will be no breaks on Trump's worst impulses.

And as for your bolded statement , I am not so sure. Too many in the GOP will do anything to hold on to their positons, and if that means doing what Dear Leader says so be it.
I am not convinced that some in the GOP woudl not throw out the Consitution they claim to love in pursuuit of pure power. I hope I am wrong.
And his fondness for people like Putin is scary.

 

[PitPat]

Your question about higher crime is misleading. I am talking about naked men exposing themselves....sometimes completely legally, to the horror of the girls and parents. The fact there are a half dozen exposed ....EVEN with a DA Gascon that allowed a child rapist into a girls juvenile jail as his punishment when he assaulted a 10 year old girl in a denny's resroom should say it all... because the rapist said he was a girl. Insane decisions.

They have gone beyond legally being there and been offensive enough to be arrested.

Just note...they can LEGALLY be there. Naked. Even with small girls there.
They get arrested when they cross lines of behavior It is a SICK perverted law.

Are you for a law that allows a grown male to parade himself naked in a female designated changing area with young girls there? Because the law right now says, yes. I say emphatically, NO.

The Korenan spas by my house are all naked. Man side, female side, and pools allow no clothing as it is considered dirty in that culture. Young kids are there with grandma.

If you think these male-as-female allowances need no protection, then continue to LOSE with every parent vote in America from now on. We all became aware. Very aware. And we learned that tolerance doesn't come at the cost of our girls. Mama bears protect our girls.

Eta. Just look up Wi Spa for one example.

https://internationalskeptics.com/f...ture-also-known-as-likes.372731/post-14432908

 

[stanfr]

America is not in a mood to become a clone of a Europaen Social Democracy, however you Progs fool yoursleves about that.
I see deamn for universal health care, not so much for wealth equality..they want the rich to pay their fair share, but don't see nay widespread mod for confisciation of wealth and massive redistriubtion.
And what the hell does end the police state mean?
I think you are living in a bubble, frankly.

I guess we cannot know unless a Progressive is actually on the ballot.
As for 'police state'--perhaps a poor choice of words on my part, I mean a society where the police basically have immunity to target whomever, and disproportionately kill minorities--you know, the whole thing that that terrorist group BLM was protesting.

 

[stanfr]

AOC is way too far to the left anyway. She will not be a serous candidate.
Like it or not, the Dems need somebody who can win back the swing voters who swung for Trump this time.
People might want change, but how much change?
I think they want Universal Helath Care, for the wealthy to pay their fair share, and do not think they want a out and out anti captialist agenda.

The swing voters were an insignificant part of this result. The real issue was low voter turnout--millions less than last time (and no, that was not the result of illegals being purged) If there was any 'swing vote' it was the racist and sexist men who could stomach Biden but despised Harris.

 

[Sherkeu]

I guess we cannot know unless a Progressive is actually on the ballot.
As for 'police state'--perhaps a poor choice of words on my part, I mean a society where the police basically have immunity to target whomever, and disproportionately kill minorities--you know, the whole thing that that terrorist group BLM was protesting.

If police come to my area in So cal.... or most places in California (the largest state in the USA) and are told to kill "minorities", who do they choose???? What color or race gets the bullet in each area?

 

[stanfr]

If police come to my area in So cal.... or most places in California (the largest state in the USA) and are told to kill "minorities", who do they choose???? What color or race gets the bullet in each area?

LOL, I am not going to respond to someone who has never heard of Alaska or Texas. Your ignorance speaks for itself.

 

[stanfr]

I don't have the time or patience to respond to the usual diversions and nonsense that inevitably occur, so I apologize in response for not responding to my own thread except to those who directly comment on my original question--what form of opposition should be mounted by the left (and/or sane individuals) to counter MAGA....

 

[Sherkeu]

You didn't answer my question, and have provided no evidence for your proposition. So noted..

Just look up Wi Spa - sexual predator to girls. Then LA fitness sexual predator to girls Then LA area YMCA sexual predator to girls. And that is only here in my immediate area. Remember, naked males aren't actually illegal to enter woth young girls into their changing rooms/ showers.


Anyone who looks it up (and isn't lazy like you are) will see for themselves. They might not post about it here though since the logical side of things gets bashed quite often here. Most people don't like to be yelled at in a forum and told they are horrible people for agreeing with the "right". SO hitler!!!!!
The odd part of that is that they end up supporting male pedophiles and criminals. So sad.

 

[Sherkeu]

I don't have the time or patience to respond to the usual diversions and nonsense that inevitably occur, so I apologize in response for not responding to my own thread except to those who directly comment on my original question--what form of opposition should be mounted by the left (and/or sane individuals) to counter MAGA....

The sane response is to not be so insane as to disenfranchise most of the normal Americans, with normal lives and normal concerns. Ditch the far far left. NOW.

So simple.

 

[Norman Alexander]

The brain drain out of the USA started by Trump the last time will become a brain flood this time. It will leave just a bunch of troglodytes standing around shouting they "won!!" Then, like the Neanderthals before them, they will die out very quickly because none of then are capable of running a bath let alone a country. The USA will then be ripe for the return of homo sapiens - man who thinks. Meanwhile, we wait and watch.