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So is this possible

Mojo said:
It could happen, but only if they’re all played by Alec Guinness.
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The hardest part would be getting into the executive branch. I've already turned down opportunities getting into senior leadership. I'm comfortable in my faceless nameless bureaucratic role. Just some jackass making meaningless decisions, questioning decisions made by those above me. It's not the action packed role I make it out to be. My point was that I, a nameless faceless totally unheard of bureaucrat has a cleaner (body count ignored) path to the presidency than Trump.
 
PhantomWolf said:
As for Afghanistan, when people come to realise it wasn't the mess that the Republicans and media are trying to make it and in fact, Biden and his team got tens of thousands of people out of what could very easily have turned into a blood bath if certain others had been involved, I don't think it's going to help the right at all. Heck, I'd love to see an inquiry just to remind everyone that the reason that the whole thing went to pieces was Trump's deal with the Taliban and that people like Steven Miller were trying to block the evacuation of any US Allies at all.
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You're assuming that facts matter. That may not be a valid assumption.

Dave
 
Leftus said:
Right now, there are 7 layers of management between me and the IRS commishioner. If we operate under the assumption that you take the job of your manager when they leave, I'm right there. From there Yellen has to go. Then it's a pair of Speakers, Sec of State and a VP and P and can you say President Leftus. Don't worry if you can't we will have re-education camps to the point people will call me the education President.

That's my path to the Presidency. With the exception of the bloodbath, it's totally legit. Trump path is even more delusional in that he doesn't have one.

The above path is not really a path, but what would have to actually happen to my mid-upperish level civil servant ass to become the leader of the free world.
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There was an episode of "Z Nation" in which a recurring (con artist) character claimed to have been a minor government functionary with several hundred people in the line of succession between him and the Presidency. Since it was the zombie apocalypse, all of the others were dead, and he argued that he should be the leader of any attempt to rebuild America.
 
Armitage72 said:
There was an episode of "Z Nation" in which a recurring (con artist) character claimed to have been a minor government functionary with several hundred people in the line of succession between him and the Presidency. Since it was the zombie apocalypse, all of the others were dead, and he argued that he should be the leader of any attempt to rebuild America.
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I was nowhere near Mt. Weather.
 
Leftus said:
One could argue that it is already a blood bath. It could have been worse is not a valid defense. Abandoning actual military hardware is not a sign of a planned military exit. Even in unplanned abandoning exits, we always had plan on at the very least disabling our equipment. Well, it involved some C4, perhaps a claymore or two. Granted I'm sitting a few thousand miles away but I'm sitting here thinking "we couldn't blow all that **** up?"
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While it hasn't been officially stated, it seems that the hardware was left for the Afghan Military, the trouble is that they folded like a pack of cards and it ended up in the hands of the Taliban. That part really wasn't entirely Biden's fault, he didn't realise that previous presidents had built the Aghan Military on a bedrock of American contractors, and as soon as they pulled out, there was no support system in place and it crumbled. If the US had bothered to build an Afghanistan that could stand on its own feet instead of a nation that could survive only with American support, then things would have gone a lot different, but of course, had they done that Cheney and his big military contractor mates wouldn't have been able to steal billions out of the US Taxpayer's coffers.
 
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PhantomWolf said:
While it hasn't been officially stated, it seems that the hardware was left for the Afghan Military, the trouble is that they folded like a pack of cards and it ended up in the hands of the Taliban. .
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And the Afghan government was perfectly content to let it stay that way, getting fat off the aid money coming in. From what I have read over the years of the Afghan government, they had little contact with the Afghan people and little if no policies to actually govern.
 
PhantomWolf said:
While it hasn't been officially stated, it seems that the hardware was left for the Afghan Military, the trouble is that they folded like a pack of cards and it ended up in the hands of the Taliban. That part really wasn't entirely Biden's fault, he didn't realise that previous presidents had built the Aghan Military on a bedrock of American contractors, and as soon as they pulled out, there was no support system in place and it crumbled. If the US had bothered to build an Afghanistan that could stand on its own feet instead of a nation that could survive only with American support, then things would have gone a lot different, but of course, had they done that Cheney and his big military contractor mates wouldn't have been able to steal billions out of the US Taxpayer's coffers.
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Not that we would ever get the answer to this, but did they strip out some of the communications gear out of the planes? Losing the C-17 isn't going to do any damage, but the decryption gear, or even something as basic as the IFF (Identify Friend or Foe) might. The amount of small arms while impressive, probably won't make that big a difference. Weapons aren't exactly rare over there. Getting shot by an M16 rather than an AK 47 isn't much of a game changer.
 
There's an illustrated list in today's i of what was left behind.



Seem to be a lot of aircraft and Hummers. Assuming there isn't a lot of fuel in the country for them, they aren't going to be much use. And I would assume most of the trained pilots will have been executed for co-operating with the Americans. Plus, from what I've read, the Hummers need major maintenance on a regular basis. As will the aircraft?

I suppose they could make money by selling them to neighbouring countries?
 
Anything left behind needed more work than it's worth to be fully functional.

Rest assured they will scavenge and adapt parts to get some of it back in service.

But within five years just parts shortages will have killed it all.

Before the action against Lybia in the 90's us intelligence had determined that 30% of the Egyptian air Force including US aircraft were actually usable. A factor worth knowing as they were a possible ally to Lybia once the sparks flew.

It seems spare parts became unavailable shortly before any action also.
As former military I have seen the utter junk left behind when anything is abandoned.

Nothing works well enough to be fired up and used against the evacuation efforts.
 
SteveAitch said:
There's an illustrated list in today's i of what was left behind.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_75818612e4e1438fcf.jpg[/qimg]

Seem to be a lot of aircraft and Hummers. Assuming there isn't a lot of fuel in the country for them, they aren't going to be much use. And I would assume most of the trained pilots will have been executed for co-operating with the Americans. Plus, from what I've read, the Hummers need major maintenance on a regular basis. As will the aircraft?

I suppose they could make money by selling them to neighbouring countries?
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It's not about the macro, but the micro. They didn't just get access to the planes, but all of the communications gear in the back. Comm gear takes up the back of most Hummers. Did they disable / destroy any of that? Do we want that sold to the Chinese, Russians or even the Saudis? It's not them needing a steady supply of GM parts. They have been keeping 1970's and 80's trucks on the "roads" for a good while. I'm sure they can keep the Hummers running, in some state, for a good long while. It's not a point of concern. Even if we left the Hummers and C-130's with flat tires, that is not where future problems come from.

What could a terrorist do with an airplane that has permission to be in restricted airspace? If they have an IFF, they can pretend to be almost anyone. By the time anyone notices, it's too late. A radar tells you something is in the air. The IFF tells you who and what it is.
 
Leftus said:
It's not about the macro, but the micro. They didn't just get access to the planes, but all of the communications gear in the back. Comm gear takes up the back of most Hummers. Did they disable / destroy any of that? Do we want that sold to the Chinese, Russians or even the Saudis? It's not them needing a steady supply of GM parts. They have been keeping 1970's and 80's trucks on the "roads" for a good while. I'm sure they can keep the Hummers running, in some state, for a good long while. It's not a point of concern. Even if we left the Hummers and C-130's with flat tires, that is not where future problems come from.

What could a terrorist do with an airplane that has permission to be in restricted airspace? If they have an IFF, they can pretend to be almost anyone. By the time anyone notices, it's too late. A radar tells you something is in the air. The IFF tells you who and what it is.
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I am in no way a fan of the US military. But even I have to say they are, collectively, in no way the simple imbeciles that you are trying to make them out to be.
 
Military com gear in use today is not functional without the proper code book and crypto load. Modern radios use a frequency hopping encryption that’s very secure. I’m not really worried on that aspect; we’ve lost com gear before and crypto loads can be updated net wide fairly easily and quickly.

On IFFs, I’m no expert, but those are not easy to reprogram and are specific to the vehicle. Again, a fairly simple matter to update the database with the lost codes to mark them as not friendly.

In addition, almost all sensitive electronics in the military can easily have their crypto wiped, and I expect that was done before leaving (it’s a matter if a switch and a few buttons, and is SOP when leaving equipment behind).

Some can even be remotely wiped.

While I can’t give any certainty, I would be surprised if any of this was left in a condition that would allow any real issues.


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Leftus said:
It's not about the macro, but the micro. They didn't just get access to the planes, but all of the communications gear in the back. Comm gear takes up the back of most Hummers. Did they disable / destroy any of that? Do we want that sold to the Chinese, Russians or even the Saudis? It's not them needing a steady supply of GM parts. They have been keeping 1970's and 80's trucks on the "roads" for a good while. I'm sure they can keep the Hummers running, in some state, for a good long while. It's not a point of concern. Even if we left the Hummers and C-130's with flat tires, that is not where future problems come from.

What could a terrorist do with an airplane that has permission to be in restricted airspace? If they have an IFF, they can pretend to be almost anyone. By the time anyone notices, it's too late. A radar tells you something is in the air. The IFF tells you who and what it is.
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They couldn't utilize the IFF, they wouldn't have the proper codes. That was one of the systems in my career field on C-130s.
 
Cuba is running on old cars of all types rebuilt so many times nothing is original.
Most have a Russian power plant no matter what they came with.
The middle east has been rebuilding, repowering, or regunning nearly everything the US, Russia, China or South Africa ever made.

They found nearly operational FT17 tanks in Iraq, Lee/Grant tanks exist in S. American nations not too long retired from active service.

Of course any vehicles that can be saved will be. And they aren't the international threat.

I didn't ever see the comm stuff in service, wasn't supposed to ever see it. But I do know that when equipment is left behind it is stripped of nearly everything sensitive automatically. They didn't even allow it to be left back then. If that wasn't possible it was utterly destroyed.

It doesn't mean nothing was captured or lost intact but severely reduced the chances of that.

Leaving behind a CE unit bulldozer or road grader was not considered any threat. My unit left some behind somewhere and just got new stuff upon returning. Beats fixing old crap I guess.
 
Steve said:
I am in no way a fan of the US military. But even I have to say they are, collectively, in no way the simple imbeciles that you are trying to make them out to be.
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Pretty sure the US has a robust IFF system for it;s aircraft, and it will be adapted so any aircraft captured by the Taliban can't use it.
I was beat to the punch on this.
The Afghans will be able to parade around in US camis, drive around in Humvees, probably stage a big parade of captured equipment on the upcoming 9/11 anniversary;but with a year most of it will be immobile because of the parts situation.
 
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8enotto said:
Cuba is running on old cars of all types rebuilt so many times nothing is original.
Most have a Russian power plant no matter what they came with.
The middle east has been rebuilding, repowering, or regunning nearly everything the US, Russia, China or South Africa ever made.

They found nearly operational FT17 tanks in Iraq, Lee/Grant tanks exist in S. American nations not too long retired from active service.

Of course any vehicles that can be saved will be. And they aren't the international threat.

I didn't ever see the comm stuff in service, wasn't supposed to ever see it. But I do know that when equipment is left behind it is stripped of nearly everything sensitive automatically. They didn't even allow it to be left back then. If that wasn't possible it was utterly destroyed.

It doesn't mean nothing was captured or lost intact but severely reduced the chances of that.

Leaving behind a CE unit bulldozer or road grader was not considered any threat. My unit left some behind somewhere and just got new stuff upon returning. Beats fixing old crap I guess.
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All time champion for that is the Israelis, during the 1948 war, used two muzzle loading cannon left behind by Napoleon in his abortive march on India in 1798. They actully took them from a museum in Haifa....
 
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