So, is homeschooling inferior?

[tamiO]

Home-schoolers think "normal" is a relative term. It isn't, at least not in practice. If you think having no friends (except other freaks like yourself) is normal, then perhaps they have a point.


Unless there's an overwhelming reason to do it, like the kid is a born devil or you live in a crazy-high crime area, there's absolutely no reason to shelter your kid that much. It should be a crime.

My children grew up with plenty of friends and are not freaks.

They were not sheltered, either. My public school system was was not challenging them, so I took them out.

I don't understand you, Hex and Shuize calling homeschooled kids "freaks." Is it because they are so intelligent and mature?

Is the United States the only country where you are made fun of for being smart?

I expect such comments from you, American, but I was surprised that Hex and Shuize chimed in with you. Perhaps you are all under the impression that only Christian Fundamentalists homeschool their kids?

 

[shuize]

No, you're right TamiO.

That spelling bee I watched must have given me a distorted view of reality. There really isn't anything odd about a child who has to practice making every sound by first speaking it into her hands before uttering it in the real world. And the rhythmic action of hands to mouth probably won't distract too many people when she goes on job interviews either.

 

[Denise]

I'm also with Tami here. Agree completely.

 

[Bjorn]

No, you're right TamiO.

That spelling bee I watched must have given me a distorted view of reality. There really isn't anything odd about a child who has to practice making every sound by first speaking it into her hands before uttering it in the real world. And the rhythmic action of hands to mouth probably won't distract too many people when she goes on job interviews either.

I thought this was about home-schooling or not.

Is the 'rhytmic action of hands to mouth' somehow different, or worse, in private schools compared to private schools?

Is home-schooling about 'a child who has to practice making every sound by first speaking it into her hands before uttering it in the real world'? I might have seen such children, but certainly not because they have been home-schooled..

You're mixing some emotions and prejudices with facts, aren't you?

 

[Lemastre]

"Home schooling" seems to be regarded as some sort of anomalous, possibly unnatural activity, when it is basically what most public school advocates want to see more of. That is, they want parents to help educate their kids by imparting some sense of discipline and responsibility and possibly maintaining a home that encourages literacy. The problem is that all kids receive "home schooling" whether anyone is aware of it or not. Too often, it leads to undesired results because the kids exist among indifferent parents of inferior education themselves.

I don't doubt that motivated parents and kids can accomplish all that the public schools can vis-a-vis book learning. Whether the socialization process suffers is another question. I was home-schooled for periods during my elementary school years and had no problem keeping up with the classes. My parents weren't, however, qualified to answer calculus and physics questions.

 

[shanek]

Home-schoolers think "normal" is a relative term. It isn't, at least not in practice. If you think having no friends (except other freaks like yourself) is normal, then perhaps they have a point.

Please submit evidence that homeschoolers "have no friends (except for other freaks like themselves)."

Unless there's an overwhelming reason to do it, like the kid is a born devil or you live in a crazy-high crime area, there's absolutely no reason to shelter your kid that much. It should be a crime.

Please submit evidence that these kids are being sheltered.

Are you honestly saying that school is the only social activity available for kids?

 

[shanek]

It doen't disprove what fundamentalist parents might want to do ....

Granted, but I think there is reason to believe that these parents are at the very least a minority.

 

[shanek]

Freaks, yes. But damn can they ever spell.*

*Provided of course they are allowed to practice freakish quirks like speaking into their hands before pronoucing every letter.

Well, I had a "freakish quirk" about spelling. I had to draw out the word in the air before I could spell it verbally because I was such a visual learner—but, they wouldn't let me do that in spelling bees so I never went far in them. So, despite the fact that I could spell every single word in the 6th grade spelling book when I was in 2nd grade, I never went far at all in the spelling bees.

The one's I've seen lately, they allow the kids to write the word on a chalkboard and then spell it out verbally. What a ripoff! I could have blown almost anyone away if I had been allowed to do that.

Of course, I was "educated" in the government schools...

 

[shanek]

My children grew up with plenty of friends and are not freaks.

They were not sheltered, either. My public school system was was not challenging them, so I took them out.

I don't understand you, Hex and Shuize calling homeschooled kids "freaks." Is it because they are so intelligent and mature?

Is the United States the only country where you are made fun of for being smart?

I expect such comments from you, American, but I was surprised that Hex and Shuize chimed in with you. Perhaps you are all under the impression that only Christian Fundamentalists homeschool their kids?

You go, TamiO!

 

[American]

I don't understand you, Hex and Shuize calling homeschooled kids "freaks." Is it because they are so intelligent and mature?

Is the United States the only country where you are made fun of for being smart?

I expect such comments from you, American, but I was surprised that Hex and Shuize chimed in with you. Perhaps you are all under the impression that only Christian Fundamentalists homeschool their kids?

Being smart is useless if you can't operate in the most basic social situations - those that occur the moment they stray 10 feet from your view. Turn that 10 feet into 50 miles and 5 years, and you have one hell of a basket case. If they clear 10 years, then they may just make it in life. But that's 10 years they waste just adjusting to the real world you hid them from.

Picture the smartest person in the world sitting in a homemade jail cell. That's about it.

 

[shanek]

Being smart is useless if you can't operate in the most basic social situations

Provide evidence that homeschooled kids "can't operate in the most basic social situations," at least to a greater extent than government school educated kids.

 

[tamiO]

Being smart is useless if you can't operate in the most basic social situations - those that occur the moment they stray 10 feet from your view. Turn that 10 feet into 50 miles and 5 years, and you have one hell of a basket case. If they clear 10 years, then they may just make it in life. But that's 10 years they waste just adjusting to the real world you hid them from.

Picture the smartest person in the world sitting in a homemade jail cell. That's about it.

You are just yanking my chain. You can't be this ignorant.

 

[Suddenly]

Of course, I was "educated" in the government schools...

So was I, but then again...

I doubt anyone is ever really "educated" in any sort of school.

Education is something you do for yourself, and any kind of school you go to can be nothing but a mere tool to that end. Not that anyone likely disagrees with that, but It seems to me that many have an odd perspective of what schools should do. Unfortunately, most of these people wind up running the darn things.

Home schooling is something that needs to happen regardless of school attendance. If parents decide that the time spent at school is either counter-productive or better spent at home, then of course they should be able to pull the kids out. However, I can see the state having a legitimate interest in being sure the children recieve at least a basic education, being able to read and write, simple math and so on. The home schooled kids in my area (mainly extremely religious parents) still had to show up for occasional testing. That seems somewhat reasonable.

I did way more learning on my own then I did within the school system, and in fact I more or less "homeschooled" myself to a large extent my last year in high school as the district wouldn't supply me with a teacher for the A.P. calculus based physics course I wanted to take. They were nice enough to allow me to teach myself provided I could find a teacher willing to volunteer to give me periodic exams for grading purposes.

This doesn't mean the schools are useless. They do allow for social interaction, and more importantly can at least help you take that first step, as the hardest part of educating yourself is figuring out what exactly you don't know.

 

[Rob Lister]

Provide evidence that homeschooled kids "can't operate in the most basic social situations," at least to a greater extent than government school educated kids.

A study of some sort is necessary for that. The study of thread topic probably doesn't address that -- but the fact that it doesn’t is an indication, to me at least, that there either is not difference or the difference is not in the home school’s favor.

I look at what the study did address and what it did not. For example, the study address politics and community service. I've no doubt that a home schooled children excel in these areas, given the nature of my own bias as to those that home school. Nature of the beast. But why not post-education wages? That seems like a better metric.

Also, were the home schooled children compared with public school children having comparable economic status? It's misleading to compare apples and oranges. It might turn out that if – if they adjusted for that, the home schooled kids would come out a little behind.

BTW, I’m all for home schooling. I’d just like to get unbiased support for my belief.

 

[shanek]

I doubt anyone is ever really "educated" in any sort of school.

True, but the irony I was intending had to do with the fact that I knew this stuff before the government got around to teaching it to me.

Of course, I think it was Oscar Wilde who said, "The only time my education was interrupted was when I was in school."

Home schooling is something that needs to happen regardless of school attendance.

I agree 100%. But I can also see the advantage in sending one's child to a good school where he can be taught by someone versed in the subject.

Of course, our government school teachers aren't, always.

All middle school teachers in North Carolina have to teach physical science, which is required for middle school students in NC public schools. Unfortunately, over 80% have never taken a physical science course and many of those who have, have taken a course that is of no help to their students.

http://www.johnlocke.org/policy_reports/2003012933.html

Someone above said how horrible homeschooling was because the kids weren't being taught by someone who knew the subject. Seems to me the government schools, then, are horrible for exactly the same reason.

I did way more learning on my own then I did within the school system, and in fact I more or less "homeschooled" myself to a large extent my last year in high school

Heck, I've pretty much homeschooled myself every year since I graduated high school, including the years I spent in college. I learned a LOT more on my own than I ever did in school. And maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.

 

[Corwyn]

PLUS

If you caught the Prime Time episode on Thursday night on cheating you have to give serious consideration to the actual validity of the grades given to a MORE than 50% of the public education scores. According to the report anywhere from
30-60% of high school AND college students cheat on exams and term papers on a regular basis and as many as 70% have admitted to cheating on at least some major tests!

Assuming that the primary reason most people home school is that they are not satisfied with public education, the overwhelming odds are that kids educated in this fashion
ACTUALLY earned their grades!

As for hiding from the real world! The real world changes ALL the time! 10 years ago if you knew anything about computers you HAD to be a NERD! Now those same "nerds" own and run half the world.

Corwyn

 

[shanek]

A study of some sort is necessary for that. The study of thread topic probably doesn't address that -- but the fact that it doesn’t is an indication, to me at least, that there either is not difference or the difference is not in the home school’s favor.

Or the study just wasn't set up to test for that.

But why not post-education wages?

Considering that more of them are enjoying their life, and more of them are going through higher eduation, I would say that even if their wages aren't measurably higher than wouldn't be any kind of argument against homeschooling. They might be in a better position to choose a job where they can work less and be more involved with their families and communities.

Not everything comes down to dollar amounts, y'know.

 

[Rob Lister]

Or the study just wasn't set up to test for that.

No. It wasn't. Why not? Probably because it's too subjective to test. Agree? Disagree?

Considering that more of them are enjoying their life, and more of them are going through higher eduation, I would say that even if their wages aren't measurably higher than wouldn't be any kind of argument against homeschooling. They might be in a better position to choose a job where they can work less and be more involved with their families and communities.

Not everything comes down to dollar amounts, y'know. [/B]

I'm talking about an apples to apples comparision. That requires some sort of metric. The 'education' metric was actually a good one but it didn't address economic status. The 'freedom' aspect you seem to be implying is not a useful metric unless you can somehow make it objective.

 

[shanek]

No. It wasn't. Why not? Probably because it's too subjective to test. Agree? Disagree?

No idea. What would you do? Ask people if they're satisfied with their social lives? A lot of social people have very active social lives yet are unsatisfied because they want more, whereas a lot of less social people are happy with the little bit that they have.

 

[Rob Lister]

No idea. What would you do? Ask people if they're satisfied with their social lives? A lot of social people have very active social lives yet are unsatisfied because they want more, whereas a lot of less social people are happy with the little bit that they have.

Thanks. That went to the second part of my reply which you did not address. I assume you're working on it.