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So I was Asked to Join the Freemasons...

A friend of mine is a Freemason and we discussed the requirement for atheism quote a while back. As far as I remember, there was a requirement to believe in a "builder of the world", which to me suggests a personal deity or aliens - but not really the God of Einstein and Spinoza.

Either way, my take on it is that atheists are clearly not included.
 
It seems to me that we've discussed the reasons not to join, but hardly touched on the positive reason in favor of joining.

It sounds to me like the same sales pitch that fraternities used at my college: we're a bunch of great guys, so join us and have instant friendship with a bunch of great guys! The whole bit about how I'm supposed to know that you're great guys (and vice versa) sort of got blurred over with some handwaving about charity work amid all the keg party discussion. Plus I'm skeptical of the whole idea of declaring people my friends just because we belong to the same club. Many of us referred to it as "buying friends in bulk."

Why not just volunteer for a charity directly, or join a group that does the sports or activities you like?
 
Call me crazy (many do) but it seems to me that joining the Freemasons IS joining a group - and since they do charity work and assuming one is interested in charity work as an activity, it might not be such a horrible experience or idea.

Seems to me a lot of people would rather throw negative stereotypes on such a group instead of giving it a chance or trying an objective viewpoint. Doesn't sound terrible "scientific" to me.
 
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bigred said:
Call me crazy (many do) but it seems to me that joining the Freemasons IS joining a group - and since they do charity work and assuming one is interested in charity work as an activity, it might not be such a horrible experience or idea.

Seems to me a lot of people would rather throw negative stereotypes on such a group instead of giving it a chance or trying an objective viewpoint. Doesn't sound terrible "scientific" to me.
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I didn't claim it was "scientific." Nor did I say it was a "horrible" experience or idea. But I guess I don't have your scientific, objective viewpoint.

I was just asking, what's the point? If you want to engage in activity X, doesn't it make more sense to join a group that is specifically for the purpose of doing X, rather than a group that apparently exists just for the sake of having a group but occasionally does X?
 
Dunstan said:
I didn't claim it was "scientific." Nor did I say it was a "horrible" experience or idea. But I guess I don't have your scientific, objective viewpoint.
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That was my impression as well, but I could be wrong.

I was just asking, what's the point?
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I suggest reading the OP.
 
Rasmus said:
A friend of mine is a Freemason and we discussed the requirement for atheism quote a while back. As far as I remember, there was a requirement to believe in a "builder of the world", which to me suggests a personal deity or aliens - but not really the God of Einstein and Spinoza.

Either way, my take on it is that atheists are clearly not included.
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Atheists have belief in a "builder of the world." It's physics. If the Freemasons do not require an intelligence behind your personal god then physics fits the bill for me. For the ceremonies you could use your own holy book, say Stephen Hawking’s A Brief History of Time.
 
Huh-What? said:
Atheists have belief in a "builder of the world." It's physics.
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I don't personify physics. I couldn't, e.g., try to have lunch with physics.

If the Freemasons do not require an intelligence behind your personal god then physics fits the bill for me.
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I don't think it would fit the bill for them. And I also don't see how physics could be described as a personal god, either. (How is it personal to begin with? I doubt gravity ever discriminates based on who you are.)

For the ceremonies you could use your own holy book, say Stephen Hawking’s A Brief History of Time.
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I don't know if they would let you get away with something like that. They might; the thread suggests that it is not terribly important to them.

But Stephen Hawking isn't my god. Neither is physics. I don't have a god and thus I am technically not allowed to join the Freemasons. I wouldn't try and wriggle my way around that, personally: If it's not important to them, they should be honest enough to admit that and not assume I should have to go through the motions. If it is important that's fair enough, too. Only then they shouldn't want me to join.
 
Yeah. Instead of making it appear as if a scientist were your god ("Science is just another religion, man!"), it's probably better to go straight for Pastafarianism.
 
My only objection (apart from the atheism thing) would be that you'd have to be very careful that 'networking' didn't tip over into 'jobs for the boys'
 
You can leave anytime you want. I havent attended in a year due to work/distance issues. I was never asked what exactly I believe, which is a spiritualism filled to the brim with hypocracy.

There are good local charity stuff done, and plain old fellowship. Although the ceremony may be a little strange, it's old and done for a reason.

Being a member has neither helped nor hindered my professional carreer so far. It has however made me some good friends who I may never have met otherwise.

It's not for everyone, you just need to ask them questions, because teh interwebs is filled with nuts.
 
The best way to describe it is that it's cryptic. You can't "get it" without experiencing the whole thing, and having the meaning explained during. Plus it's all symbol and allegory so it seems odd without the expanation.
 
Worm said:
My only objection (apart from the atheism thing) would be that you'd have to be very careful that 'networking' didn't tip over into 'jobs for the boys'
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In my experience, (which I'll admit is limited to merely being the wife of a relatively senior Freemason) the notion that Freemasonry is some kind of portal to power, influence or financial/business advantage is vastly overstated. It’s really one of the “myths” of Freemasonry. I may be misremembering slightly, but I believe there is a part of one of the oaths/obligations where a Mason pledges that his decision to join is “Uninfluenced by mercenary or other unworthy motive.” To join with the specific aim of gaining some kind of personal advantage would be contrary to the ethos of the organisation, and would be thoroughly disapproved of by most Masons.

What Freemasonry does provide, though, is an extended social network and an opportunity to meet a lot of interesting people, from a wide variety of backgrounds. That being the case, it’s highly likely that there are occasions where business opportunities arise between Masonic friends, just as they do between people who work out at the gym together, or play football together or know each other through any social activity. When we need building materials for our home renovations, we buy them from a local supplier who my husband happens to know from one of his Lodges. We do that because (a) we know him, (b) we like him, (c) we trust him and (d) he provides a good service. Is that "jobs for the boys"?
 
I used to want to join the Masons for a while when I was a teenager. I read some of the mythos and I was hooked. I also knew a Mason through church and school. Then I grew up, became an atheist, and knew I couldn't join then. I still support their charitable works and will defend the lot against those who would defame them if I encounter them.
 
I like 'The Wall' and 'Brick' and 'Another Brick in the Wall' and 'Wonderwall' and 'Brick House' - can I join?
 
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