Snopes Beclowns Itself

lobosrul5 said:
My dad says his grandmother swore she was 1 quarter Cherokee.... genealogy research did not confirm that. Was she mistaken, a liar, or did someone falsify records? Who knows.
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My grandmother claimed she was descended from an Italian ship captain called Gabriel. Nobody in the family has ever found anything in the public record to support this claim, so we regard it as unproven even though Granny was pretty sure of it. Presumably I've just beclowned myself?

Dave
 
Brainster said:
Here's another classic example of Snopes' "bend over backwards to find a way to say the Republicans were wrong."



Snopes calls this one "unproven" but listen to this:



They go on to note how many conservative blogs ran with the story. And see how many times they use the words, "claim" "claimed", and "claims"? Guess where these right-wingers came up with the "claim"?

From Kamala's own father:



And you can probably guess their reason for calling the "claim" unproven:



Who knows? Maybe her dad was just bragging?
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Is "the Republican's" position that the claim is unproven? Or is it that the claim is wrong? If their position is that the claim is unproven then Snopes supports that position. If their position is that the claim is wrong then the onus in on "the Republicans" to provide evidence. Do you personally agree that the claim is unproven? Or do you personally think there is evidence that the claim is wrong and that Snopes is ignoring or avoiding that evidence?
 
Steve said:
Is "the Republican's" position that the claim is unproven? Or is it that the claim is wrong?
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No, their position is that the claim is true, and the implication in Brainster's post is that the unsupported claim by Donald Harris should be enough for Snopes to rate the claim True rather than Unproven. Apparently the rules of rational skepticism don't apply to Republican claims because reasons.

Dave
 
crescent said:
Like Elizabeth Warren was bragging? Conservatives had no problem going after her ancestral claim - even after it was proven to be correct.

Her father claims a certain ancestry. He can't prove it. It is unproven.
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Yeah, this. If anyone is "beclowned" in this affair, it's the Republicans displaying their blatant hypocrisy.
 
Dave Rogers said:
No, their position is that the claim is true, and the implication in Brainster's post is that the unsupported claim by Donald Harris should be enough for Snopes to rate the claim True rather than Unproven. Apparently the rules of rational skepticism don't apply to Republican claims because reasons.

Dave
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Ok thanks. I guess I was giving the republicans too much credit. I thought they were looking to claim that the Harris family was lying. I fact it seems they want the claim to be true because it somehow adds support for their racist views.
 
Steve said:
Ok thanks. I guess I was giving the republicans too much credit. I thought they were looking to claim that the Harris family was lying. I fact it seems they want the claim to be true because it somehow adds support for their racist views.
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Not even that, I think; it's just an attempt to pin any accusation whatsoever to any Democratic candidate whatsoever. In this case the charge is Claiming to be Black While Insufficiently Black.

Dave
 
Brainster said:
Here's another classic example of Snopes' "bend over backwards to find a way to say the Republicans were wrong."



Snopes calls this one "unproven" but listen to this:



They go on to note how many conservative blogs ran with the story. And see how many times they use the words, "claim" "claimed", and "claims"? Guess where these right-wingers came up with the "claim"?

From Kamala's own father:



And you can probably guess their reason for calling the "claim" unproven:



Who knows? Maybe her dad was just bragging?
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Pocahontas.
 
Dave Rogers said:
No, their position is that the claim is true, and the implication in Brainster's post is that the unsupported claim by Donald Harris should be enough for Snopes to rate the claim True rather than Unproven. Apparently the rules of rational skepticism don't apply to Republican claims because reasons.

Dave
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I can't really even fathom why Republicans think that her being descended from a Jamaican slave owner in some way discredits her, or makes her status as an African American somehow illegitimate. I don't really know her family history, or care particularly, but why does it matter whether her ancestors were Jamaican slaves or American slaves? IIRC, Colin Powell is also of Jamaican descent.

As others have pointed out, many, possibly most, African Americans are descended from slave owners, as it was extremely common for slave owners to rape their slaves.

Similarly, I remember a fair number of Republicans saying that Obama wasn't a "real" African American, because he wasn't descended from American slaves. It was obviously true that he wasn't descended from American slaves, but his father was African and his mother was American. If that doesn't make him an African American, I don't know what does, and in any case, why does it matter?

It makes me simply want to say, "Interesting, so, what is your point?".
 
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Dave Rogers said:
No, their position is that the claim is true, and the implication in Brainster's post is that the unsupported claim by Donald Harris should be enough for Snopes to rate the claim True rather than Unproven. Apparently the rules of rational skepticism don't apply to Republican claims because reasons.

Dave
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Ah, so Kamala's dad is a Republican? Now it makes sense!
 
CORed said:
...IIRC, Colin Powell was also of Jamaican descent.

Similarly, I remember a fair number of Republicans saying that Obama wasn't a "real" African American, because he wasn't descended from American slaves. It was obviously true that he wasn't descended from American slaves, but his father was African and his mother was American. If that doesn't make him an African American, I don't know what does, and in any case, why does it matter?

It makes me simply want to say, "Interesting, so, what is your point?".
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I guess we are sliding off topic a bit, but I first heard this sentiment expressed towards Colin Powell, and I heard it from African Americans. The idea being that there is a shared culture among African Americans, strongly impacted by centuries of slavery and discrimination in the context of the larger American culture and history. A person not raised within that African American culture and setting may not be fully understanding of the struggles and values of the African American community.

The catch being, I don't know how common the sentiment is among African Americans. In this case, the GOP may be taking a point expressed by a few members of that community and assuming it is shared by all members, while simultaneously ignoring a great many other issues raised by African Americans.
 
crescent said:
I guess we are sliding off topic a bit, but I first heard this sentiment expressed towards Colin Powell, and I heard it from African Americans. The idea being that there is a shared culture among African Americans, strongly impacted by centuries of slavery and discrimination in the context of the larger American culture and history. A person not raised within that African American culture and setting may not be fully understanding of the struggles and values of the African American community.

The catch being, I don't know how common the sentiment is among African Americans. In this case, the GOP may be taking a point expressed by a few members of that community and assuming it is shared by all members, while simultaneously ignoring a great many other issues raised by African Americans.
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Whoever originated it, I find the argument curious, especially when directed to people of Jamaican descent. Jamaican black people certainly share a legacy of slavery and discrimination with American blacks. Obviously, there are some differences in cultural context. Obama certainly had a very different background than the typical African American, but I have little doubt that he had to deal with prejudice and discrimination during his life (and certainly had to deal with a lot of racism during his presidency, and I would think being married to a "normal" African American would have helped him understand that perspective.

It all seems to be a "no true Scotsman" type of argument anyway, whether directed at Jamaicans, Obama, or simply African Americans who grew up in a middle class environment rather than an a poor inner city neighborhood.
 
Brainster said:
Ah, so Kamala's dad is a Republican? Now it makes sense!
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I suppose, when a claim is represented as evidence for a claim, it's hard to keep track of which claim is being talked about at any particular time. That's more the fault of the people who can't distinguish between evidence and claim, though.

Dave
 
Dave Rogers said:
I suppose, when a claim is represented as evidence for a claim, it's hard to keep track of which claim is being talked about at any particular time. That's more the fault of the people who can't distinguish between evidence and claim, though.

Dave
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I think the claim is that if there isn't sufficient evidence to rule conclusively you should go with what Republicans say or you're biased.
 
Because of a thred here called "Perseverance porn", I just went to the Snopes. Looking for the article about Alex Smith who died because he wouldn't spend money on insulin. One of the first paragraphs mention that Rx prices are going up "in spite of Trumps election promises". Bias anybody?
 
kookbreaker said:
It was an election promise and he has promised it or claimed it a few times now.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...hecking-donald-trumps-claim-drug-prices-are-/

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...ite-trump-promise-investigation-finds-n913011

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/31/14453740/trump-medicare-prescription-drugs
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But my point was that Trumps election promises were only posted by Snopes tp make him, a Republican, look bad. Remember the OP? This discussion is about Snopes, not Trump.
 
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