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Slavery in the Bible

cnorman18

Critical Thinker
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
304
I have seen the Bible criticized, and frequently, on this board because it does not denounce or outlaw slavery. Seems a fair criticism on the surface; but let's take a closer look.

(Two notes before I begin: First, when I speak of "the Bible" here, I am referring to the Jewish Bible, called Tanakh by Jews and the Old Testament by Christians. Second, I say nothing about the origin or provenance of the Bible or whether or not it is in any sense the "Word of God." Those are separate questions for another thread.)

Slavery in the ancient world was just part of the natural order of things. Some people were rich, some were poor, and some were slaves. It never even occurred to the slaves themselves that there ought not be such an institution; they merely hoped to have a good master, or to be free someday (and have slaves of their own).

Advocating the abolition of slavery in, say, the 10th century BCE, or even the 1st, was literally unthinkable. The entire economic order depended on it, as did the social order and the civil and criminal law. It was simply part of the way the world worked. An analogous position in the present day might be to advocate outlawing the private ownership of automobiles; though some few might agree that that would theoretically be a good thing, in the main one would be laughed off the podium. Too much depends on it; millions of jobs, the primary means of transportation for almost everyone outside of our largest cities, assessment of social status and economic success, and so on. Literally unthinkable; and two or three thousand years ago, slavery held the same position.

Nevertheless, it seems painfully obvious to us today that slavery was wrong at its root; well and good, for our time. It was not so obvious then. Consider my example of private car ownership: it may very well be obvious in the future that that, too, is evil.

I once read an SF story that assumed just that. From the perspective of the 25th century or so, a character observed that we must have been idiots: besides massive air pollution, interminable traffic jams, the obscene enrichment of despotic regimes, and the enormous economic burden placed on the individual (and the reinforcement of the class system), we have tens of thousands of dead to account for, every single year. Only worldwide war sees people killed by each other on such a massive scale. Surely the private ownership of cars is an immoral and indefensible business...

I think the point is clear. The outright abolition of slavery was simply not an option two or three millenia back, whatever our sensibilities may be today.

It would be more useful, I think, to consider what the Bible does have to say about slavery; and there we find that, while the institution itself is accepted, its immorality is heavily implied in the strict limitations and prohibitions imposed on slaveowners.

These restrictions were unique in the ancient world; in other cultures, slaves were mere property, and their use and abuse was no more restricted that those of a table or chair. The death of a slave, even if the result of a drunken whim, was of no account at all. If one killed the slave of another, one paid the slaveowner for the loss of his property and nothing more.

In the Bible, the unprovoked killing of a slave is murder.

Injury to a slave results in the slave's being immediately freed.

Female slaves were not to be raped. Even a woman taken in warfare was not to be molested; the victor might choose to marry her, but was required to wait for one full month to allow her to mourn--and if she was later divorced, she must be paid the full amount due any wife upon the end of a marriage (also a unique custom in the ancient world, where women were also generally treated as mere property).

Slaves were to be given a day of rest every week along with their owners..

If food was in short supply, the slaveowner was obligated to see that his slaves were fed before he himself was allowed to eat.

If shelter was limited, the slaves were to be housed while the owner slept outdoors.

Elderly slaves were to be cared for and given no onerous work; they were not to be abandoned.

Perhaps most significantly: It was forbidden to return an escaped slave to his master. On the contrary, it was commanded that such a person be sheltered and protected as an honored guest. What could possibly be more certain to lead to the end of slavery than a policy like that?

With all these restrictions, it should come as no surprise that slavery grew less and less common in Israel over the centuries; it was simply more trouble than it was worth.

On the issue of slavery, as with so many others--women's rights, cruelty to animals, civil and criminal law, equality under the law for noble, King, and commoner, limitations on the power of rulers, and so much more--the Bible was far ahead of its time. This is not evidence of Divine origin by any means, but it might help explain how and why a set of documents so very old, and held sacred by such a relatively tiny group of people, have had such an enormous influence on so many for so long. It certainly hasn't been the brutal and inhuman parts.

Credit where credit is due; no more--but no less.
 
Yes, the bible is chock full of examples of justice and morality!

I'm particularly fond of Numbers 31.

It tells such a heart rendering tale of how the children of Israel treated the Midianites.

Well, OK, they killed all the males, and non-virgins, BUT they kept the virgin female children alive! Though it does appear they probably didn't stay virgin for long.

But still, they lived!

Credit where credit is due; no more--but no less. :)
 
On the issue of slavery, as with so many others--women's rights, cruelty to animals, civil and criminal law, equality under the law for noble, King, and commoner, limitations on the power of rulers, and so much more--the Bible was far ahead of its time. This is not evidence of Divine origin by any means.
Indeed, but presuming God exists, there are two choices. God was once upon a time happy with the idea of slaves or the bible is not the word of God.
 
I agree with the OP entirely.

A bronze-age mish-mash of plagiarised stories has no relevance what-so-ever in the 21st century other than a rather dull read and as an indicator of the ignorance and brutality of its authors.

Credit where credit is due.

.
 
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well, yeah, I think the criticism is mostly a response to the idea that the bible is a good source of infallible moral guidance. You hear this a lot even from non-religious people. At some point someone needs to point out that the bible basically condones rape and genocide as well as killing your children at god's will.
 
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I think I'm beginning to get the drift.

Apparently any suggestion that the Bible might not be 100% worthless or that its influence might not be 100% pernicious is simply not to be tolerated.

Oh, well.

I suppose every belief system has its orthodox axioms of faith that are not to be questioned.

Thoughts that challenge our most cherished beliefs can be so hard to deal with. I suppose that's why no one has managed to address anything that I actually said.

Forget I mentioned it. Much more comfortable that way.
 
I think I'm beginning to get the drift.

Apparently any suggestion that the Bible might not be 100% worthless or that its influence might not be 100% pernicious is simply not to be tolerated.

Oh, well.

I suppose every belief system has its orthodox axioms of faith that are not to be questioned.

Thoughts that challenge our most cherished beliefs can be so hard to deal with. I suppose that's why no one has managed to address anything that I actually said.

Forget I mentioned it. Much more comfortable that way.

I'll only speak for myself.

You can cherry pick from the bible and give about any impression you would like to. That however does not change the basic fact that it is fiction with some history thrown in. I'm of the opinion that any attempt to sugar coat it's imperfections, and try to make it a less bitter pill to swallow would, if successful, lead others to follow the fairy tales, and perpetuate the hate and bigotry that religion has "blessed" us with. Not to mention what it tends to do to logical thinking, and common sense.

So, feel free to cherry pick good things from the bible, and post them here. Myself, or others, will be ready and waiting to counter that with the other side of the coin.
 
On the issue of slavery, as with so many others--women's rights, cruelty to animals, civil and criminal law, equality under the law for noble, King, and commoner, limitations on the power of rulers, and so much more--the Bible was far ahead of its time. This is not evidence of Divine origin by any means, but it might help explain how and why a set of documents so very old, and held sacred by such a relatively tiny group of people, have had such an enormous influence on so many for so long. It certainly hasn't been the brutal and inhuman parts.

Credit where credit is due; no more--but no less.

What I take from your (well argued) post, is that the Bible was ahead of its time in some respects, but behind our current thinking in those same respects.

From my point of view, that means it's interesting from a historical point of view, but not something I'd want to base my beliefs on now.
 
I think most people here are well aware of what the times of the bible was like. What you say in your OP is well known. That is not why the bible are criticised today. It is precisely because it is a product of ancient times that we criticise its current use! Many Christians today use the parts of the bible that they think justify their views and actions, and conveniently "forgets" the parts that are impossible to apply to our times. People here are simply pointing their cherry-picking ways out when they draw attention to these non-applicable parts.

People here don't use this argument because they have such a poor understanding of ancient times (as you seem to want to lecture us about) but because it is a way to point out to people, who think the bible is the infallibe word of god, that their belief is illogical.

WE know that the bible is NOT the word of god, but mirror the times in which it was written. THEY think it is the words of an infallibe all-knowing god (who should then know better, one might think). This is what we are trying to make them see using this argument.
 
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...You can cherry pick from the bible and give about any impression you would like to.

Quite true; but since the overwhelming bulk of the ethical teaching in the Bible is clearly aimed at establishing positive moral standards of compassion, justice and liberty, it occurs to me that it is those who diligently search its pages and work so very hard to find evil there might more fairly be accused of doing the "cherry-picking."

That however does not change the basic fact that it is fiction with some history thrown in.

I have no argument with that. My point was that the "fiction" often also contains ethical teachings, which are generally positive within the context of their time; here, in the particular case of slavery.

I'm of the opinion that any attempt to sugar coat it's imperfections, and try to make it a less bitter pill to swallow would, if successful, lead others to follow the fairy tales, and perpetuate the hate and bigotry that religion has "blessed" us with. Not to mention what it tends to do to logical thinking, and common sense.

Do you really think, by examining the fairness of a single criticism of the Bible on a single issue, that I am arguing that the Bible is flawless and inerrant and should be swallowed whole, and logic and common sense should be abandoned in favor of Bible-worship? That I am seeking to "convert" a forum of dedicated skeptics to a point of view that I do not even hold myself?

In any case, I was doing nothing of the kind. I was responding, as stated, to a common criticism of the Bible and examining the question of whether that criticism is fair. I conclude that it is not.

It's really a rather limited point, and you have not addressed it. No one, so far, has.

So, feel free to cherry pick good things from the bible, and post them here. Myself, or others, will be ready and waiting to counter that with the other side of the coin.

Match your cherry-picking for mine? Fair enough.

Would you care to try to rebut my observations about the Biblical view of slavery now?
 
Quite true; but since the overwhelming bulk of the ethical teaching in the Bible is clearly aimed at establishing positive moral standards of compassion, justice and liberty, it occurs to me that it is those who diligently search its pages and work so very hard to find evil there might more fairly be accused of doing the "cherry-picking."



I have no argument with that. My point was that the "fiction" often also contains ethical teachings, which are generally positive within the context of their time; here, in the particular case of slavery.



Do you really think, by examining the fairness of a single criticism of the Bible on a single issue, that I am arguing that the Bible is flawless and inerrant and should be swallowed whole, and logic and common sense should be abandoned in favor of Bible-worship? That I am seeking to "convert" a forum of dedicated skeptics to a point of view that I do not even hold myself?

In any case, I was doing nothing of the kind. I was responding, as stated, to a common criticism of the Bible and examining the question of whether that criticism is fair. I conclude that it is not.

It's really a rather limited point, and you have not addressed it. No one, so far, has.



Match your cherry-picking for mine? Fair enough.

Would you care to try to rebut my observations about the Biblical view of slavery now?

If you'll provide biblical references to back up the various claims you make, I'll take a stab at it.
 
In any case, I was doing nothing of the kind. I was responding, as stated, to a common criticism of the Bible and examining the question of whether that criticism is fair. I conclude that it is not.
Hang on you said
I have seen the Bible criticized, and frequently, on this board because it does not denounce or outlaw slavery. Seems a fair criticism on the surface; but let's take a closer look.
So the bible is criticised for two reasons 1. it does not denounce slavery and 2 it does not outlaw slavery. You were looking at slavery, not the treatment of individual slaves that you may own, but the concept of slavery. You have not shown that the bible either denounces or outlaws slavery. You should have therefore concluded that the criticism was very fair. How the bible tells you to treat the people you have enslaved is a different question.
 
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Excuse me for butting in here, but I still feel that you have missed the point of why the argument is used, how it is used, and to what people it is directed to. Setting aside the question of if it's a good argument or not, and if it produces the desired effect to use it or not, it has still been misunderstood here.

Quite true; but since the overwhelming bulk of the ethical teaching in the Bible is clearly aimed at establishing positive moral standards of compassion, justice and liberty, it occurs to me that it is those who diligently search its pages and work so very hard to find evil there might more fairly be accused of doing the "cherry-picking."

(My bolding) This seems a bit exaggerated. That is not how I personally see it, in any case. It doesn't really demand a diligent search to find something in the bible that is offensive in modern eyes. You usually just have to close your eyes and point... But the point is that it was written in different times, and as such has not (should not have) much bearing today. The bible itself is not offensive to me, it's the current use of it. Sure there are good things in it as well. But it is hardly the sole source of "good ethical stuff" to live by, so why place such an importance on it? That's what I wonder when people do place such an importance on it.

My point was that the "fiction" often also contains ethical teachings, which are generally positive within the context of their time; here, in the particular case of slavery.

But what is your point though? The main point of the argument is that slavery is not applicable today, and that there are many things in the bible that likewise is not applicable today. We then wonder, when we point these non-applicable things out, why these things are discarded when other things are lived by? It's the application of slavery on its whole that are used in the argument, so what does it then matter if the Jews were less harsh on their slaves than their neighbours were? There are many cultures throughout history where slavery has been less harsh than the more severe forms of human bondage, for that matter.

Do you really think, by examining the fairness of a single criticism of the Bible on a single issue, that I am arguing that the Bible is flawless and inerrant and should be swallowed whole, and logic and common sense should be abandoned in favor of Bible-worship?

No, I don't think you do. But you seem to think that we haven't got a single clue about the history of the bible and ancient times when we use this argument, which is not true. Granted, I am sure not an expert, but you need only basic understanding to realize that the facts in your OP is true ('true' in the sense of that it says so in the bible). The facts you mention does not "kill" the use of the argument though, the way it is intended and used. And the fact that the Jews might have been less harsh in their slave-owning traditions (and that's the law, we don't know so much about what happened in reality) is also a non-issue when it comes to the use of this argument.

That I am seeking to "convert" a forum of dedicated skeptics to a point of view that I do not even hold myself?

I, personally, didn't get that impression.

I was responding, as stated, to a common criticism of the Bible and examining the question of whether that criticism is fair. I conclude that it is not.

I think that the criticism is not of the actual biblical slavery in itself (that we all know happened in different times, and that we can't change now anyway) but of people in our times, who uses the bible for their own agendas, and think it's the word of god. We are trying to make them see that, if it is indeed, all of it, the word of god, they can't pick and choose like that! And we are trying to make them see that if the bible is indeed a child of its time, it can't also be the word of god. Pointing out slavery is only one way to reach this goal.

It's really a rather limited point, and you have not addressed it. No one, so far, has.

Would you care to try to rebut my observations about the Biblical view of slavery now

It's because it has nothing to do with why and how the argument is used, as I see it.
 
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What I take from your (well argued) post, is that the Bible was ahead of its time in some respects, but behind our current thinking in those same respects.

In particulars, of course; what else could one expect? But see below.

From my point of view, that means it's interesting from a historical point of view, but not something I'd want to base my beliefs on now.

I see I should have tried to make a larger point here, and made it more explicitly.

The idea that it is even possible to "base one's beliefs" on the Bible alone is one I would reject out of hand. Without a coherent tradition of interpretation, the book is opaque where it is not entirely unintelligible (for the record, I do not regard the fundamentalist Christian tradition of interpretation as "coherent"). But that is not the question anyway; I say nothing here about beliefs, religions or the "word of God."

My point was really only to show that the Biblical writers' views on slavery were eminently defensible in their time, and in contrast to the views of other societies, positively revolutionary.

But there is, I see now, a larger point to be made: the principles that lay behind those views--you know, justice, compassion, liberty, that stuff--were, and are, solid foundations for an ethic and a body of law, if not for a "belief."

And, in fact, those principles have been just that; together with Greek ideas and ideals, the principles of justice and fairness laid down in the Bible are the foundation of modern ethics and law. All the legal and ethical traditions that have led up to the standards of the present day have been heavily influenced by the Bible, and to contend that that influence has been entirely negative would be--well, let's say illogical and contrary to common sense.

Anyone who wants to say that religion has brought an enormous amount of injustice, cruelty and despair to the world will get no argument from me; I an a Jew, and a greater proportion of my people have been banished, tortured, and murdered in the name of God than any people on earth. I do not speak for "religion" in general here, or anywhere else. In the present discussion, I do not even speak for my own.

What I am saying is that dismissing and condemning the Bible itself as entirely worthless, entirely evil and only an instrument of oppression, bigotry and injustice, is simply unjustifiable. That view requires one to ignore too much of Western history, philosophy and culture, and way too much of the Bible itself, to be regarded as anything but a gross overgeneralization, and perhaps a rather unjust and bigoted one, itself.
 
Lots of us on here acknowledge that the Bible contains useful information, that the Bible is largely concerned with issues of ritual purity, and to a lesser degree the relationship between ritual and moral purity.

It's also clear (at least to me) that most Jews are capable of picking and choosing from the Bible based on modern concepts of morals and ethics and are able to understand why we no longer practice slavery.

What is controversial is the claim that the Bible is an inerrant source of morality. It's not. It's a source of immorality as much as morality. As ancient documents go, it's above average, but no one uses it as a standard of morality anymore, not even devout believers.

Given the fact that you have chosen to post on a board that is largely defined by skeptics and non-believers, it isn't really surprising that people here want to focus on the bad parts of the Bible and the bad things that people have done (and continue to do) and justify by pointing out that God did these bad things also. If you are looking for a community of people who want to focus on the good parts of the Bible, there are many, they far outnumber boards like this one. At best you are going to get some acknowledgment that your point is valid. But the rest of us find that there are much better places to look for moral guidance.
 
All the legal and ethical traditions that have led up to the standards of the present day have been heavily influenced by the Bible.
I am not sure about this. I would say the bible and the law have been influenced by what people felt was the morally right answer at the time. I am not convinced that law makers have strayed from what they felt was right because of a biblical interpretation.
 
But there is, I see now, a larger point to be made: the principles that lay behind those views--you know, justice, compassion, liberty, that stuff--were, and are, solid foundations for an ethic and a body of law, if not for a "belief."

And, in fact, those principles have been just that; together with Greek ideas and ideals, the principles of justice and fairness laid down in the Bible are the foundation of modern ethics and law. All the legal and ethical traditions that have led up to the standards of the present day have been heavily influenced by the Bible, and to contend that that influence has been entirely negative would be--well, let's say illogical and contrary to common sense.

Anyone who wants to say that religion has brought an enormous amount of injustice, cruelty and despair to the world will get no argument from me; I an a Jew, and a greater proportion of my people have been banished, tortured, and murdered in the name of God than any people on earth. I do not speak for "religion" in general here, or anywhere else. In the present discussion, I do not even speak for my own.

What I am saying is that dismissing and condemning the Bible itself as entirely worthless, entirely evil and only an instrument of oppression, bigotry and injustice, is simply unjustifiable. That view requires one to ignore too much of Western history, philosophy and culture, and way too much of the Bible itself, to be regarded as anything but a gross overgeneralization, and perhaps a rather unjust and bigoted one, itself.

I acknowledge that the bible has historical importance, for good and for bad, and as such it can, of course, be discussed. But apart from that I feel it is now high time to put this book down!
 
I think I'm beginning to get the drift.

Apparently any suggestion that the Bible might not be 100% worthless or that its influence might not be 100% pernicious is simply not to be tolerated.

Oh, well.

No, that isn't the drift.

The problem is that it is very easy to look back now that slavery is universally agreed to be wrong and say, Hey, the bible has verses against slavery! Unfortunately, back when slavery was allowed, too often people were also able look to the bible to find support for slavery. True, there were religious who used the bible to oppose it, but when the bible can be used for both sides of the argument, then it isn't really contributing anything.

IOW, I think your suggestion that the Bible might not 100% worthless is incorrect in this regard.

It would be nice, for once, for the Bible to give us some moral teaching that we can't figure out for ourselves. Well, I have to be careful, there. Sometimes, it does. It gives us supposed moral lessons like, "Don't eat shellfish" and "Gays are bad, m'kay?"

But don't give us this "the bible is opposed to slavery" crap. Clearly, that is a matter of opinion. Too many people in history have used the bible to support their bigotry. It clearly is not obviously against it.
 

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