Skeptic Mangles ZEITGEIST

[TimCallahan]

We get it - your PURE HATRED for Acharya spews from every comment about her you make including your calling her "Dorothy" which remains just as disrespectful now as the last time I requested that you stop doing that. She has never used that name - it came about essentially from STALKERS trying to get whatever private information they could in order to cause her harm - HER 2 YEAR OLD CHILD WAS ABDUCTED by obtaining her private information. So, just STOP. You need to CEASE and DESIST repeating that name over and over spamming it across many forums everywhere you can.

Actually, she freely says in a video that her real name is Dorothy Murdock and says she adopted Acharya S as a nom de plume (sp.?). Thus, I don't see it as an affront to call her Dorothy Murdock. I'm sorry if her child was abducted - though this is the first time Ive hear this - and, frankly, I have nothing against the lady. We can, after all, throroghly disagree with another person and still ccept him or her as a friend.

As to her involvement with the film, "Zeitgeist." She has written a "Zeitgeist Companion." I haven't read it, so I don't know if she disavows Parts II and III of the film. If she disagrees with the assertions that the WTC twin towers were actually brought down by explosives planted inside them by nefarious elements in the U.S. government, or that the income tax is illegal, she really ought to say so. If she doesn't, she effectively lends tacit support to such theories. This, in turn, taints the objectivity of her own theory. I don't believe I'm "poisoning the well" by saying this.

 

[TimCallahan]

I googled "Acharya S, child abducted" to check on this incident. I didn't find anything. However on Acharya S's blogspot I found a long post by Acharya S, a screed against circumcision. Among other things, it contained this little gem:

Over the past decade or so, I have met and communicated with two world-renowned "anti-circ" scientists, including pediatrician Dr. Paul Fleiss, who told me he had performed "thousands" of circumcisions before he saw the light, and neuropsychologist Dr. James Prescott, who has evidently proved that circumcision causes irreversible brain damage. The foreskin is, after all, not a "useless piece of skin" but a highly complex organ. What does circumcision do, exactly? Dr. Fleiss describes this "denuding of the penis":

So, this "irreversible brain damage" must be why the Jews produce so many scientists, mathematcians, musicians etc.

 

[GreNME]

Tim, she also has, in the past, claimed that AIDS and HIV are unrelated (it's true).

I'm not sure what to respond to in Dave31's personal ranting. Her child is not perpetually two years old, and while I understand her protectiveness of her child I'm in no way, shape, or form bringing her kid into this. In fact, the only people who constantly bring Dorothy's child into this are Dorothy and her followers. I've pointed out in several posts that I have read Dorothy's work, but Dave works without the need for pesky things like "facts" or "reality." Additionally, considering that all of her books are self-published or vanity press (AUP is vanity press), all of Dave's arguments of (false) authority pretty much fail since her book credentials wouldn't even qualify her as a "published author" in terms of real publishing houses and author circles. She's a huckster who relies on her followers to help promote her (example) in an attempt to claim credibility, and all the claims of "libel" and "slander" are their primary weapon against anyone who persists in disagreeing with them.

 

[Dave31]

"Actually, she freely says in a video that her real name is Dorothy Murdock"

Nope, that is completely incorrect - she has never once used the name "Dorothy" as I've already stated. She says "D.M. Murdock" as made clear by her blog and video - which also states that she had nothing to do with parts 2 or 3:

"First of all, let me clarify that I was not involved in the creation of ZEITGEIST, other than providing a few images and consulting on Part 1 at the last minute, the result of which was the final, "Official" version. However, my work did serve as a significant inspiration for Part 1. I had no involvement in Parts 2 and 3, and make no comment thereupon in this article."
http://tbknews.blogspot.com/2008/04/zeitgeist-refuted-not.html

"If she disagrees with the assertions that the WTC twin towers were actually brought down by explosives planted inside them by nefarious elements in the U.S. government, or that the income tax is illegal, she really ought to say so. If she doesn't, she effectively lends tacit support to such theories. This, in turn, taints the objectivity of her own theory. I don't believe I'm "poisoning the well" by saying this."

Nope, she does not need to go out of her way defending herself from parts 2 or 3 when there's absolutely nothing suggesting that she had anything to do with them. Those who know her work know that she discusses comparative religion, mythology, astrotheology etc. To assume that she had anything to do with parts 2 or 3 is a mistake on the part of the person falsely creating that assumption. Does she also now need to make sure everybody knows that she had nothing to do with AIG as well? This is absurd to say the least.

"So, this "irreversible brain damage" must be why the Jews produce so many scientists, mathematcians, musicians etc."

You're talking about this blog?:

Ayaan Hirsi Ali Saves Civilization
http://tbknews.blogspot.com/2007/10/ayaan-hirsi-ali-saves-civilization.html

Is this an attempt to dig up whatever dirt you can find to sling at her? Are you pulling that quote out of context? It certainly had nothing to do with Zeitgeist and is therefore irrelevant here. Tim, don't get caught-up in the trashy comments here that these skeptics make - it really makes all skeptics look like irrational juveniles. I expected better quality when I first came here but was quickly let down. The irrationality and unreasonableness here can be over the top in the name of skepticism. I have yet to see anyone from here who viciously attacks Acharya's works actually read or study her works - that's not a hypocritical double-standard biases or anything.

Tim, didn't you say you had a forum or blog? If so, what's the link?

 

[Dave31]

Thanks for more of the same digging around for trash by GreNME. That's what he does - he has never actually studied Acharya's works. He read a few online articles or whatever he could get from google books and pretends to be an expert on her work.

Here's GreNME in action going around spamming forums trying to get any thread discussions of her work deleted.

post # 35
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/rook_hawkins/the_jesus_mythicist_campaign/11214

He prefers censorship over honest discussion with integrity. Notice he never really has anything to offer beyond slanderous remarks. I'm not interested in getting flamed into another dishonest smear campaign by GreNME.

No sir GreNME, you're the "huckster" here - Acharya's wiki page had been up for a several years until people like yourself attacked it trying to get it removed to censor her. I am not surprised by your dishonesty to use it here as another weapon though. The low levels you are always willing to stoop without any hesitation no longer surprise me.

 

[GreNME]

Dave31, the reason I posted what I did, both here and at RR, was because the exact same spam you posted here appeared on my own site (example). It's a direct copy-paste from her e-newsletter, and you know it. Why you continue to dodge that fact is simply evidence of your fanaticism. The only stalking going on here is your own.

 

[paximperium]

I do find the Acharya S.(or Ron Bots or 9/11 Truthers or Plasma Cosmologists) cult exceedingly amusing.

They somehow are deluded enough into believing that by spamming and going on rants on websites that it somehow makes their moronic claims valid. I love the playing the martyr, smells just like Creationists and other Fundie Christians.

They don't seem to realize that they themselves are ones who alienate everyone and make their "movement" seem all the more insane.

 

[TimCallahan]

Dave: This forum will not allow me to post a link until after I've had at least 15 posts here.

As to the views of Murdock / Acharya S on circumcision, go to her blogspot to check them out. What I posted really is not taken out of context. Frankly, given that she comes off as rational and personable in a video I saw of her, I was quite suprised by the screed on circumcision. Now, I will readily agree that circumcision is rather a pointless procedure; but, frankly, it's rather harmless in most cases (We are, of course, specifically referring only to male circumcision, not the horrific so-called "female circumcision.").

So, no, I'm not going out of my way to dig up dirt on her. By the way, if you can supply me with any link to a news story on the abduction of her child, I would appreciate it. My heart goes out to anyone who has experienced such an ordeal, even when it ends happily.

 

[Dave31]

GreNME, it's called a DISCUSSION it's what people do who aren't socially retarded do - they actually have conversations and discuss things. The only reason YOU call it "spam" is because YOU don't like it! However, when an decent person doesn't like a topic they usually skip it - others who apparently have nothing better to do troll up the thread with their own spam (like your own website & forum) trying to distract others by flaming them into off-topic juvenile discussions just as you're doing now. You've not had a single thing to offer in this thread beyond the typical marching of your "spam" flag trying to censor a subject ruining any chance for legitimate conversation to take place.

GreNME, You have yet to provide any "newsletter text "that you claim is "a direct copy-paste from her e-newsletter"

GreNME Now simply provide the evidence for your claim or admit that you just lied in an attempt to smear Acharya and anyone who posts her work for discussion. If you do not provide this "newsletter text" in your next post then you obviously are making things up. Therefore, you're the "huckster" here and you owe myself and Acharya an apology for such malicious and libelous remarks.

Why does the jrandi forum even put up with your utter nonsense? It's an embarrassment to all skeptics and Freethinkers. No point wasting any more time with you as you're clearly not here for legit conversation.

 

[Dave31]

Tim Callahan "Dave: This forum will not allow me to post a link until after I've had at least 15 posts here."

Oh, that's right Tim - I forgot about that. Feel free send it to me in a PM. I'd be happy to see what you've got going on over there. I've searched for it but can't find it anywhere.

By the way, if you can supply me with any link to a news story on the abduction of her child, I would appreciate it. My heart goes out to anyone who has experienced such an ordeal, even when it ends happily.

"The disreputable and untrustworthy Christian apologist "James Patrick Holding" has been receiving and releasing malicious, false and libelous information about me, provided to him by a mentally ill fugitive wanted on three felonies, including child abduction. In his typically vicious, unprofessional, unethical and immoral manner, Holding first revealed my name--also gained from this felonious source and now posted all over the internet--and then passed along the false and libelous material to his fanatic followers, who have since threatened me with further exposure of personal information and lies received from this deranged criminal, who committed violent crimes against me and my small son. Because of this despicable behavior, it is obvious that this man, JP Holding, has no integrity, and that his writings should not be given credibility."
http://www.truthbeknown.com/holding.htm

 

[TimCallahan]

Well, no, Dave: All she's saying here is that material on her was supplied to J. P. Holding of Tektonics (an internet fundamentalist apologetics organization), by a mentally ill fugitive. I have no idea how true her accusations against Holding are; although "Tektonics" and Holding gave my first book, "Bible Prophecy: Failure or Fulfillment?" (a debunking of Hal Lindsey and others of his ilk) a scathing review. I can certainly understand that she might have felt somewhat stung by any review he might have given her books.

Unfortunately, the further I dig into Acharya S / D. M. Murdock, the weirder it gets. In a late chapter of "The Christ Conspiracy" she argues that the Sphinx in Egypt is 10,000 years old, as does Graham Hancock, and that there was originally an ancient global ciilization, from which all these myths come. Here we are dipping into New Age pseudoscience. I begin to wonder if she is going to invoke Atlantis next.

 

[GreNME]

Here is the pertinent text I am claiming is the spam:

In this week's eSkeptic magazine, Tim Callahan wrote a critique of Zeitgeist part 1 —

The Greatest Story Ever Garbled
by Tim Callahan

Acharya has already responded to Callahan's article (link is in the article below)

Skeptic Mangles ZEITGEIST
(and Religious History)
http //stellarhousepublishing.com/skeptic-zeitgeist. html

http //www.stellarhousepublishing.com/christinegypt. html

She mops the floor with him demonstrating that when it comes to the facts surrounding Zeitgeist part 1 he doesn't know what he's talking about after all.

I already posted one link where the person posting the text in quote tags posts practically the same text as you, Dave31. If you would like to offer some backing to your assertion, then which of the five examples not counting the OP in this thread is the original text that the others are copying? If I'm wrong about where the text itself came from-- and considering I've pointed out several cases of the same text, practically verbatim, popping up in various places on the internet (found using a simple boolean search)-- then why not fill us all in on where the text originated? If you're so confident I'm full of crap, then all you have to do is point out the originator of the text from your OP.

 

[Dave31]

LOL, you're BUSTED GreNME!!! You have just inadvertently admitted that you cannot produce any e-newsletter actually by Acharya telling people to as you claimed is "a direct copy-paste from her e-newsletter" to spam

Originally Posted by Dorothy Murdock TBK e-mail

The above is another complete fabrication by GreNME as NOWHERE did it say "Originally Posted by Dorothy Murdock TBK e-mail" ANYWHERE at all so GreNME's addition to it here is his own creation demonstrating that he has been caught in a lie attempting to spread malicious and libelous gossip about Acharya S.

You said,

"It's a direct copy-paste from her e-newsletter, and you know it."

I said to you,

"GreNME, You have yet to provide any "newsletter text" that you claim is "a direct copy-paste from her e-newsletter"

Providing quotes from others and attempting to pass them off as being from Acharya S is purely dishonest. The person who quoted that could easily have been quoting someone else but the FACT REMAINS that it did NOT come from Acharya as your utter absence of evidence demonstrates that you cannot back up your claim.

You may proceed with your apology at once, GreNME.

Here is the pertinent text I am claiming is the spam:

I already posted one link where the person posting the text in quote tags posts practically the same text as you, Dave31. If you would like to offer some backing to your assertion, then which of the five examples not counting the OP in this thread is the original text that the others are copying? If I'm wrong about where the text itself came from-- and considering I've pointed out several cases of the same text, practically verbatim, popping up in various places on the internet (found using a simple boolean search)-- then why not fill us all in on where the text originated? If you're so confident I'm full of crap, then all you have to do is point out the originator of the text from your OP.

 

[Czarcasm]

LOL, you're BUSTED GreNME!!! You have just inadvertently admitted that you cannot produce any e-newsletter actually by Acharya telling people to as you claimed is "a direct copy-paste from her e-newsletter" to spam


The above is another complete fabrication by GreNME as NOWHERE did it say "Originally Posted by Dorothy Murdock TBK e-mail" ANYWHERE at all so GreNME's addition to it here is his own creation demonstrating that he has been caught in a lie attempting to spread malicious and libelous gossip about Acharya S.

You said,

I said to you,

Providing quotes from others and attempting to pass them off as being from Acharya S is purely dishonest. The person who quoted that could easily have been quoting someone else but the FACT REMAINS that it did NOT come from Acharya as your utter absence of evidence demonstrates that you cannot back up your claim.

You may proceed with your apology at once, GreNME.

You accuse others of libel and other dastardly things, then you add a grinning emoticon at the end of your posts. Are you happy that this is supposedly happening to you, or do you not understand what that particular emoticon actually means?

 

[paximperium]

You accuse others of libel and other dastardly things, then you add a grinning emoticon at the end of your posts. Are you happy that this is supposedly happening to you, or do you not understand what that particular emoticon actually means?

It seems he enjoys playing the persecuted minority. It's a weird martyrdom complex.

 

[GreNME]

You're a little bit ridiculous here. I'm asserting that it's a copy-paste from one of her newsletters, you're claiming it's not. Since you seem to be so sure that it's not, the simplest way for you to prove what I'm saying wrong is to provide the actual place you were quoting from.

Want to know my evidence for my claim? Let's look at some prior newsletters from Dorothy:

Hi there -

Over the years, kind people has asked me how they can help spread my work as found in my books and on my websites. My friend Freethinkaluva and I have put together a list of ways in which people can help - and I can ALWAYS use the help!

http://forums.truthbeknown.com/viewtopic.php?t=2068

I probably don't need to tell you that I've been a "one-man show" for 12+ years on the internet, relying on word-of-mouth help in getting out the word on very controversial issues that affect all of our lives.

Fortunately, there have been some really great people who have helped out along the way - and I truly appreciate that!

As I put the finishing touches on my forthcoming book "Christ in Egypt" - whew, I'm exhausted after all these months! - I'm in need of assistance of a variety of ways, including both financial and otherwise.

Please consider lending a hand, however large or small, in this worthy endeavor. To see how you can help, please go here:

http://forums.truthbeknown.com/viewtopic.php?t=2068

Thank you for your kind attention to this important matter.

Acharya S aka D.M. Murdock

But those are generalized suggestions, of course. That doesn't mean Dorothy isn't above asking people to "help out" in more specific ways, though. For example:

Hi there -

I sincerely hope you are having a great day.

If you've read my work and appreciated it, please take the time to go
to the Richard Dawkins forum, register and make a post regarding my
work.

Like Christian fundamentalists, it seems to be a habit of people who
claim to be "atheists" to attack me personally and nitpick my work,
frequently without having read it. As I've discussed previously, the
fervent Christians and atheists appear to be two sides of the same coin when
it comes to being dogmatic - a very unfortunate characteristic, in my
opinion. Many individuals possess no knowledge about or interest in
mythology; hence, they seem to lazily and mindlessly dismiss the
passionate observations of the world around them - with unbecoming contempt,
particularly in consideration of the fact that they know so little about
the subject they are pretending to be expert enough to critique.

In any event, please do chime in!

So, does that mean I'm saying Dorothy told Dave31 to post that message directly into the JREF forum? Of course not. Instead, Dorothy gets most of her google traffic from the members of her own website forum pasting links pretty much everywhere they can, while simultaneously accusing Google of suppressing her page ranks when her pages aren't at the top of searches.

That isn't even the only time she's done that. She urged people to join in with the RonPaulBots in spamming the web with messages in support of Ron Paul:

Hi there -

While politics is not my usual purview, there are points where my field of specialization and politics do overlap, such as the United States Constitution, which I consider a "sacred document." In this regard, I have posted a blog regarding Presidential candidate Dr. Ron Paul and his true purpose in life, as I understand it. This blog post was inspired by an exchange I had with David Bergland. Following is a short blurb from the blog post, followed by the link to the rest.

Please feel free to pass this message around far and wide, as I believe Dr. Paul is worthy of being defended against vicious rumors.

Frankly, Dave31, Dorothy has a history of this behavior, and you and your buddies Freethinkaluva and Mriana and company (including 'naomi' on my own site) have a history of following suit.

So, again, all you have to do is post the source of the text you posted in your first post to prove me wrong. Since you keep dancing around this the only logical conclusion at this point is that you can't refute my accusation.

 

[Tricky]

Please refrain from bickering. Remember to attack the argument and not the arguer (Rule 12) plus the general directive about civility. If this thread continues as it is now, it is punching a one-way ticket to Abandon All Hope.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

 

[TimCallahan]

Okay, to bring things back to the argument and away from the person, on the negative side, I have found that Acharya S holds the view, along with Graham Hancock, that the Sphix and the Great Pyramid are actually over 10,000 years old and part of a global civilization that existed in the Ice Age and was destroyed by a cataclysmic flood caused by the melting of the glaciers at the end of the last glaciation. This runs counter to just about everything we know from anthropology, archaeology and history.

In addition, she has written at least one rather odd screed about the evils of male circumcision in which she claimed that it caused irreversible brain damage. This is a rather odd claim, and she doesn't support it with any data.

However, these shouldn't be the only things upon which we base an opinion of her work. She claimed in her rubuttal of my review of Part I of "Zeitgeist" that in her work she did give credence to the Jewish messianic sources of the Christ myth. Looking over the contents of her book, "The Christ Conspiracy," I didn't see anything that looked like any references to Judaism or the Jewish roots of the Christ myth, although this is only one of her works. Perhaps Dave could pinpoint one or more of the places in Murdock's writing where she deals with this.

 

[TimCallahan]

Dave, I haven't got an answer from you concerning where in the writings of Acharya S she refers to those aspects of the Christ myth that are specifically Jewish in origin. Are you there, Dave?

 

[TimCallahan]

Well, Dave, I've now looked at the tables of contents for all three of the books by Acharya S: "The Christ Conspiracy," "Christ in Egypt" and "Suns of God." In none of them do I find a chapter heading that gives any reference to the Jewish Scriptures, Jewish messianism or Jewish apocalypticism as sources of the Christ myth. Can you tell me what I'm missing?